Apparently there are some Thiemites that don't believe he ever discouraged anyone from reading the Bible for themselves. I was there and heard it with my own ears numerous times, but didn't have a direct quote until now. I found the following quote on the thiemite.blogspot.com site:

[i:f326bbd1dc]"The soul is a receiver. The lungs of the soul are apertures designed to receive bible doctrine. Either directly in Bible teaching or in Bible study or through the storage area of the human spirit.

The mechanics of this thing involves several aspects: You can store doctrine in the human spirit and use it later. You can take it directly through Bible teaching; and when you have become mature enough, so that you are spiritually self sustaining you can read and benefit from the Bible, but the worst fallacy in the world is the idea that a born again believer can sit down and read the Bible and derive spiritual benefit. That is a farce and every evangelist says 'Now read your Bible every day and everything will be alright.' and reading your Bible everyday isn't going to mean a thing, you have to be taught. So the greatest farce in the world is that you, a believer, a new believer, can sit down and read the Bible and learn something. That's why the gift of pastor-teacher exists in the church and its a long time before you get to where you can read and understand. When you see a passage you may not understand it, but once you have categories of doctrine, you can identify categories and work it out. So, don't kid yourself, when the day comes that any new believer can open the Bible and become an expert that's the day when we won't need pastors and teachers and I'll go to Hawaii or I'll go back into the service or something. ... So whether you like it or not, you are dependent on me."
Bob Thieme[/i:f326bbd1dc]

One of the worst lies he ever told in my opinion.

Truthlover



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2008 10:18PM by rrmoderator.

[b:3dec8ae07c]Act 17:10[/b:3dec8ae07c] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[b:3dec8ae07c]Act 17:11 [/b:3dec8ae07c]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and [b:3dec8ae07c]searched the Scriptures daily[/b:3dec8ae07c], whether those things were so.

[b:3dec8ae07c]Rev 1:3[/b:3dec8ae07c] [b:3dec8ae07c]Blessed is he that readeth[/b:3dec8ae07c], and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

[b:3dec8ae07c]Mat 24:15 [/b:3dec8ae07c]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, ([b:3dec8ae07c]whoso readeth, let him understand:[/b:3dec8ae07c])

Thank-you, Truthlover, and you are quite right…what a destructive deception from one who claims to be a man of God.

Liberty

The man is gruff and blunt, no doubt. But the concept of the churches being dependant on their pastors is very much a biblical concept.

Pastors are called "shepherds" in the bible.
Sheep need a shepherd, and they depend on him.

If we could get all we need from just reading the bible for ourselves, we wouldn't need pastors and teachers. But the bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit distributes said gifts for the building up of the church. So is He wasting his time, and would be better off distributing bibles instead?

If you have a problem with this concept, your problem is with the bible, not with Bob Thieme.

radaph:

Your response here is very telling.

Like many members of destructive churches with authoritarian leaders that have little if any meaningful accountability, you seem willing to rationalize almost anything.

You are essentially accepting a dictatorship rather than democratic church government, which is the standard means of accountability in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches today.

And saying that "bible makes it clear" and that anyone who disagrees with you somehow has a "problem...with the bible" is another example of how people in destructive churches speak.

That is, anyone who disputes the proof-texting of scripture per their interpretation is somehow against God and/or the bible.

You make Bob Thieme look pretty bad.

The New Testament provides accountability for deacons, elders and evangelists--even apostles (read Paul's criticism of Peter in Acts).

Evangelists would be today's pastors.

Quote
rrmoderator
radaph:

Your response here is very telling.

Like many members of destructive churches with authoritarian leaders that have little if any meaningful accountability, you seem willing to rationalize almost anything.

You are essentially accepting a dictatorship rather than democratic church government, which is the standard means of accountability in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches today.

And saying that "bible makes it clear" and that anyone who disagrees with you somehow has a "problem...with the bible" is another example of how people in destructive churches speak.

That is, anyone who disputes the proof-texting of scripture per their interpretation is somehow against God and/or the bible.

You make Bob Thieme look pretty bad.

The New Testament provides accountability for deacons, elders and evangelists--even apostles (read Paul's criticism of Peter in Acts).

Evangelists would be today's pastors.

Well, I think the bible does make it clear that pastors are to have authority over their flocks.

You seem to view authority as a bad thing. I have no problem submitting to a pastor's authority if I am confident that the pastor is being himself obedient to God's word.

I don't really care if you think I make Bob Thieme look bad. You might read the rules you agreed to, and avoid personally attacking me. Thanks a bunch.

Quote
rrmoderator
radaph:

Your response here is very telling.

Like many members of destructive churches with authoritarian leaders that have little if any meaningful accountability, you seem willing to rationalize almost anything.

You are essentially accepting a dictatorship rather than democratic church government, which is the standard means of accountability in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches today.

And saying that "bible makes it clear" and that anyone who disagrees with you somehow has a "problem...with the bible" is another example of how people in destructive churches speak.

That is, anyone who disputes the proof-texting of scripture per their interpretation is somehow against God and/or the bible.

You make Bob Thieme look pretty bad.

The New Testament provides accountability for deacons, elders and evangelists--even apostles (read Paul's criticism of Peter in Acts).

Evangelists would be today's pastors.

So because my opinion differs from your I am rationalizing? What do you base this statement on?
You act as though it is an established fact that Berachah was a cult, and I am just in denial. But it seems to me there are just as many on this forum who defend Berachah as there are those who attack it. So an objective person would listen to both sides of the argument. You seem to be listening through a filter, only hearing things that convict the colonel.

I don't even attend Berachah anymore. Colonel Thieme doesn't even teach anymore. Why would I defend him?
I will tell you why. Because what I learned from him has had a extremely positive influence on my life. Not COLONEL THIEME, but what he taught me. It is not the colonel who affected my life, but his message. And his message is the truth of the word of God, taken from the bible, sliced up and served on a silver platter, and freely given out for 50 years. God's word has power. The colonel's words have no power.

Why is it that the majority of his congregation were able to figure that out, and a few others couldn't?
It's not the man, but the message that matters. Heck even Jesus stated this about Himself. And the colonel stated it too.

You ask what he did to discourage people from idolizing him? Well first of all, it wasn't as common as these few people make it out to be. But secondly, I have heard him address this problem quite a few times from the pulpit, and I've also heard his son address it. That is where I got the phrase "it's not the man but the message that matters." Those were his words. He did not seek all this supposed idolizing. He did not welcome it. He did not entertain it. He was a very humble man. And I'm sorry "rrmoderator" but before you tell me he wasn't humble man, I would ask you this. Have you ever met him? Or are you just parrotting what someone has told you about him?

First hand experience is the only way to make an objective opinion. And I don't mean listening to 10 second sound clips or cut-out sections of articles made to make him look like a cult leader. I mean actually listen to an entire series of his. Pick any doctrine that takes your fancy, and listen from start to finish, and see if it sound cultish to you. Just like reading one or two verses out of context in the bible will give you a distorted view of God. Listening to little clips here and there from Thieme will give you a distorted view of his ministry.

I can tell from what certain people have said about some of his doctrines that they either haven't heard the whole story or they are extremely biased. Right man Right woman, is a perfect example. I believe whole-heartedly in that doctrine, and it hasn't destroyed my marriage. It has made it stronger. And guess, what. I believe I didn't marry my right woman. But it doesn't matter. Grace trumps all. When you are studying His word, and seeking His will, He can and will always turn a bad situation into a good one, cursing into blessing. Right man/right woman is the ideal situation. But Thieme never once implied that marriage can't work outside of that scenario, or that divorce is ever a viable alternative.

This is just one example, of people getting their dander up at a somewhat shocking remark, and not listening to the rest of the message.

rrmoderator, why is it that some of my posts don't get posted?
I was almost certain I had already responded to this, but I don't see my comment anywhere.

(Radaph), “I can tell from what certain people have said about some of his doctrines that they either haven’t heard the whole story or they are extremely biased. Right man Right woman, is a perfect example. I believe whole-heartedly in that doctrine, and it hasn’t destroyed my marriage. It has made it stronger. And guess, what. I believe I didn’t marry my right woman. But it doesn’t matter. Grace trumps all. When you are studying His word, and seeking His will, He can and will always turn a bad situation into a good one, cursing into blessing. Right man/right woman is the ideal situation. But Thieme never once implied that marriage can’t work outside of that scenario, or that divorce is ever a viable alternative.”


Thieme Jr., in “Right Man/Right Woman” (1st page)...

..... the next most important decision any member of the human race can make is that of choosing the right person as a lifetime partner. The right man must find the right woman; the right woman must find the right man. Anything else is — as close as you will come to that phrase (which is a misnomer) — “hell on earth.” Hell is in hell, and it’s future; but if anyone wanted to describe “hell on earth”, in one sentence marriage to the wrong woman or to the wrong man would be it! One of the greatest causes of suffering in life comes from marrying the wrong person.”

That is once.

Quote
orangeperuviscacha
(Radaph), “I can tell from what certain people have said about some of his doctrines that they either haven’t heard the whole story or they are extremely biased. Right man Right woman, is a perfect example. I believe whole-heartedly in that doctrine, and it hasn’t destroyed my marriage. It has made it stronger. And guess, what. I believe I didn’t marry my right woman. But it doesn’t matter. Grace trumps all. When you are studying His word, and seeking His will, He can and will always turn a bad situation into a good one, cursing into blessing. Right man/right woman is the ideal situation. But Thieme never once implied that marriage can’t work outside of that scenario, or that divorce is ever a viable alternative.”


Thieme Jr., in “Right Man/Right Woman” (1st page)...

..... the next most important decision any member of the human race can make is that of choosing the right person as a lifetime partner. The right man must find the right woman; the right woman must find the right man. Anything else is — as close as you will come to that phrase (which is a misnomer) — “hell on earth.” Hell is in hell, and it’s future; but if anyone wanted to describe “hell on earth”, in one sentence marriage to the wrong woman or to the wrong man would be it! One of the greatest causes of suffering in life comes from marrying the wrong person.”

That is once.

Like I said before, if you pick and choose exerts to quote, you will not have an accurate understanding on what he said on the subject. You quoted a paragraph. His sermons are at least an hour long. I would have to hear the rest of it before making any informed opinion.

radaph,

This quote from Bob's book, clearly addresses your statement; "never once implied that marriage can't work outside of that scenario," (Right Man/Right Woman).

"hell on earth".

It is in context, and makes common sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2008 08:16AM by orangeperuviscacha.

Quote
orangeperuviscacha
radaph,

This quote from Bob's book, clearly addresses your statement; "never once implied that marriage can't work outside of that scenario," (Right Man/Right Woman).

"hell on earth".

It is in context, and makes common sense.

I agree, it looks bad. But for all I know he explains himself in the next paragraph. Sometimes the Col would make shocking statements like that to get our attention, then he would explain what he meant by that.

I am not saying that is the case with this quote. But it could be. Without seeing what he said before and after that, I would not want to make any judgements. Also, considering I have heard him teach on right man/right woman in person, and he taught the contrary.

He said, sure marrying the wrong person will cause a lot of problems. But through both of your faith and diligent studying the word, you will be mature enough to handle those problems, and you may have a very happy marriage, though not as happy as right man/right woman would've been, but then again you wouldn't know what you were missing anyway.