I stumbled onto this forum yesterday so I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts over the almost two years that the forum on R.B. Thieme, Jr has been open. Before I get to my comments I suppose I need to say that my family were "tapers" (listened to recordings of Col. Thieme's sermons) from about the time I was 7 years old onward. I have not had any interaction with members of Berachah Church so my knowledge of his ministry comes from his sermons only.
That being said I can now comment on what I have read so far. This forum has brought out a lot of very strong emotions about Col. Thieme's (people ofen call him Col. Thieme since he retired from the army with a rank of Lt. Col.) ministry which, in way, does not surprise me. He had a strong personality and people tended to either love him or hate him. However much of what I have read seems to be just plain overwrought. Right at the very beginning a poster by the name of
Ephesians 1:3 made, what I thought, were some reasonable statements in defense of Col. Thieme and then made a statement that she thought his ministry was persecuted by Satan. I wouldn't have said that (and no statement like that ever came out of Col. Thieme's mouth) but that is her opinion and there is nothing wrong with it. Here is one of the responses from the forum moderator to
Ephesians 1:3:
rrmoderator
Attempting to hide behind the bible and dismiss criticism as somehow "satanic" is a common practice of groups called "cults" that manipulate the bible and Christian beliefs.
Frankly, it's not a "logical thought" to blame "Satan" for criticism, but rather a way that many cult members dismiss anything they don't want to deal with.There are at least two comments to be made in response to the moderator. First, while I am sure cults often use that defense it is also true that Christians who are not cultists have also used it (did you know that "cultist" Martin Luther tried to throw an ink well at the devil?). Belief that Satan persecutes Christians is not a litmus test for being a cult. In fact, the bible is clear that those who follow Christ will be persecuted.
It took me about five minutes to track down an internet resource title the
Scripture Menu which has list of scriptures on different topics. If you scan the scriptures listed for
persecution I think you will agree that disciples of Christ will be persecuted.
The other item that really needs to be pointed out if the moderator insists on using "logical thoughts" it would really do him well to brush up on his logical fallacies:
-
Some Fallacies of Argumentation-
Stephen's GuideBy trying to claim that
Ephesians 1:3 (or Col. Thieme) are cultists because
Ephesians 1:3's statement is something he would expect from a cult mamber (in another almost identical comment he mentioned David Koresh) is called
guilt by association and is a form of
ad hominem attack. And, I have to say, that this seemed particularly week to me. Using the moderator's "logic" I sure hope that cultists don't like pizza and beer or I am in big trouble!
Here at the end of the posts it apears that poster
Truthtesty has been dominating as of late and a lot of it is overwrought. I picked out two of her (I apologize if
Truthtesty is actually a he) statements but could have picked many more.
First quote:
Truthtesty
Another "basic" area where Thieme's cult indoctrination dysfunctionalizes the Christian, is anger. Thieme categorizes anger as a "metal attitude" sin.
There is no Ten commandment that states "Thou shalt not be angry".
The Bible simply says "Ephesians 4:26 "Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:"Wow! Once again it took me all of five minutes to track down the Scripture Menu site which has a nice section listing scripture about
anger. Yes, the Ephesians 4:26 quote was there but so were these:
Be not quick in your spirit to become angry,for anger lodges in the bosom of fools.
—Ecclesiastes 7:9
Refrain from anger, and forsake wrath!
Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil.
—Psalm 37:8
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
—Ephesians 4:26-27, 31-32 To quote the Spaniard from the Princess Bride: "I do not think that word means what you think it means."
Then it seems that
Truthtesty has found a critique of Col. Thieme's teaching by a Dr. Wall. I do not know Dr. Wall nor see why I am supposed to take his critique so seriously (please look up the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority"). From the context of
Truthtesty's post I believe that she got this next idea from Dr. Wall:
Truthtesty
Thieme doesn't even get the majority of basics right from his teacher Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer.Okay, I guess I need to point a really "basic" thing out about this. We are protestants and Dr. L.S. Chafer is not some kind of dispensationalist Pope. So Col. Thieme's teaching digressed from his teacher's? I can point you to online forums where Southern Baptists are arguing with Southern Baptists, Calvinists with Calvinists, and Lutherans with other Lutherans. We Christians tend to debate things a lot and students will disagree with teachers.
Oh well, I am running out of time and need to go.