Personality cults in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: March 29, 2003 02:07AM
The belief in a god-man or man-god in general, was an ancient pagan belief that persists to this day. When a religion focuses on a person rather than on God, that's when I have a problem with it. And when a religion believes its founder is
God, I have a further problem with it. But when a faith system has unscientific beliefs and uses subterfuge to sell itself, that's when I call it a full-blown cult.
God, I have a further problem with it. But when a faith system has unscientific beliefs and uses subterfuge to sell itself, that's when I call it a full-blown cult.
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
La Minturnesa
()
Date: April 22, 2003 11:20PM
Some science for you: http://www.shroudstory.com/index.htm
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: April 23, 2003 01:02AM
I did not read the entire site. I find the shroud of Turin to be more the subject of the National Enquirer than one I could take to be relevant.
The shroud of Turin, whether real or fake would not convince me that a man could be God incarnate or that a man/God could walk on water. Scientifically, if the density of something is denser than water, it'll sink in water. And if something doesn't sink in water but floats on it, it has to have a scientific reason.
Also, being Jewish myself, I was raised in an environment where Jesus simply wasn't discussed. The shroud of Turin, the Holy Grail, the Old Rugged Cross, all have little bearing on what goes on in my mind.
I classify Jesus' miracles with all the old testament ones as being the creation of priestly castes that want to make people believe in a God who defies nature rather than in a God who defines nature. Once they can get you to believe in the unscientific they can get you to believe in anything they want.
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
LET31257
()
Date: June 27, 2003 02:49AM
When a spiritual leader becomes something more than just a person, but holier than the rest or God's representative here on earth than there's room for abuse. When unchallanged, these leaders get a bloated self-image and will play God, becomming dictatorial and repressing free expression of thought if it doesn't conform to their views. Instead of people thinking and acting for themselves they look toward there spirutal leader for direction.
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: July 23, 2003 12:32AM
Quote
LET31257
When a spiritual leader becomes something more than just a person, but holier than the rest or God's representative here on earth than there's room for abuse. When unchallanged, these leaders get a bloated self-image and will play God, becomming dictatorial and repressing free expression of thought if it doesn't conform to their views. Instead of people thinking and acting for themselves they look toward there spirutal leader for direction.
When Jesus said, "I and the father are one" and "no one gets to the father but by me" I take it that he broke away from Judaism where the laws and rulings were done by a quorem called a "beit din". In Judaism, one person never had the whole enchilada and when Moses did, his father in law, Jethro, told him to split it all up.
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
greenberean
()
Date: July 23, 2003 11:10PM
Quote
In Judaism, one person never had the whole enchilada and when Moses did, his father in law, Jethro, told him to split it all up.
This is not because the nation was in danger of being led astray by a megalomaniacal control freak, but because of practicality. Moses was just one man, and could not judge every dispute in the entire camp of Israel. The arbiters appointed to help bear Moses' burden judged righteously, as he did, according to the law given them. (Scripture says that Moses was the most humble man around, and history gives us no other contrary perspective)
Quote
When Jesus said, "I and the father are one" and "no one gets to the father but by me" I take it that he broke away from Judaism where the laws and rulings were done by a quorem called a "beit din".
He was criticized for saying these things because the Jewish elders, for the most part, like so many of our religious leaders today, worshipped something other than what they professed.
When faced with the reality of the person of God, they rejected Him. They sought heaven by lineage and by the works of keeping the law, and Jesus said that wasn't good enough.
They were as technical and anal about the law of moses as a human could possibly be, and before men, they had great reputations as men of righteousness. Jesus destroyed that misconception of justification they had of themselves. Their god was not like this "man" who stood before them, accusing them of sin. He had to be put down, discredited, and explained away by any means.
Quote
But when a faith system has unscientific beliefs
Here is the old arguement that since there is no God, all miracles are false, and should be explainable by science. But it should be free from the presupposition that there is no God, right up front, because miracles are evidence of God. Or else Christianity would not be a major world religion, and the name of Jesus would have been forgotten in two generations. He would have been just another arrogant hopeful cult-leader. God demonstraes His command authority over creation by breaking His natural laws as he deems fit. Science and reason are purposefully out of means to explain miracles, so that no one can reasonably deny the supernatural. But they do anyway.....
Personality cults in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: July 24, 2003 09:46PM
Quote
greenberean
This is not because the nation was in danger of being led astray by a megalomaniacal control freak, but because of practicality. Moses was just one man, and could not judge every dispute in the entire camp of Israel. The arbiters appointed to help bear Moses' burden judged righteously, as he did, according to the law given them. (Scripture says that Moses was the most humble man around, and history gives us no other contrary perspective)
I don't believe that Moses per se ever existed. The story is certainly a myth. I don't believe that any one man has the wisdom to rule over the whole world.
He was criticized for saying these things because the Jewish elders, for the most part, like so many of our religious leaders today, worshipped something other than what they professed.
(RMG' reply: Or maybe Jesus just simply wanted to have the
political and religious power that the Pharisees had so he attacked the religious establishment. Either way, I don't believe in him or them).
When faced with the reality of the person of God, they rejected Him. They sought heaven by lineage and by the works of keeping the law, and Jesus said that wasn't good enough.
They were as technical and anal about the law of moses as a human could possibly be,
(RMG's reply: The Jews got technical about the laws because they believe that Hebrew isn't just an average language. If you study the Bible in Hebrew they claim that there are codes in the
words. It's called Gimatria. It's another type of "Bible Code".)
and before men, they had great reputations as men of righteousness. Jesus destroyed that misconception of justification they had of themselves.
(RMG's reply: And whom do you suppose would comment on the Torah in Jesus absence and before he was born, the Zoroastrians?)
Their god was not like this "man" who stood before them, accusing them of sin. He had to be put down, discredited, and explained away by any means.
(RMG's reply: I'm sure he was seen as a self righteous lunatic).
Here is the old arguement that since there is no God, all miracles are false, and should be explainable by science.
(RMG's reply: I believe in God. I just don't believe in supernatural events and my belief about God isn't supernatural.)
But it should be free from the presupposition that there is no God, right up front, because miracles are evidence of God.
(RMG's reply:No miracle has ever been spotted in America, put on film, video tape, DVD etc..l It's all mythology)
Or else Christianity would not be a major world religion, and the name of Jesus would have been forgotten in two generations. He would have been just another arrogant hopeful cult-leader. God demonstraes His command authority over creation by breaking His natural laws as he deems fit.
(RMG's reply: God has never broken a natural law.)
Science and reason are purposefully out of means to explain miracles, so that no one can reasonably deny the supernatural. But they do anyway.....
(RMG's reply: When in recent time and in this country was a miracle ever reliably recorded? Never!!)
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