E.Ray, welcome to the forum! It is always good to get more insight and views, and you certainly seem to have some very direct experience of the things many others have reported.

These things are not unique to Cumbernauld either. There are many other stories of people leaving and a whole pack of lies being told about them. Truth will out however, as has been demonstrated by E.Ray's confirmation or some of the things CovLas has said. Ignoring it and hoping it will go away is no longer an option.

Covlass, I totally agree with what you are saying about concern and support for members of the congregation at this time. If anyone in Struthers is reading this and thinks it would be helpful to contact anyone on this forum, then I would say to you to do so, whoever it is. I have no contact with most of the people here, and don't know who they are, but I can still say that - I don't need to control you and make up rules about who you should and should not contact! Go for it: ask people about their experience and about whether they have found a real Christian life post-struthers. You may be surprised at the answers!

I would certainly be willing to help anyone whether I knew them or not, whether they had treated me or others well or not and whether they wanted to remain or leave in Struthers. I am sure others will think the same way and will be keeping the honest people of Struthers in their thoughts and prayers. It seems to me that is very practical Christianity, and is very different from the struthers "we won't help you unless you agree with everything we say" mentality.

I think it will be very interesting to see how the leaders respond to questions from OSCR. Will their prayers all be for themselves -"Lord, save me, protect me, I don't care about anyone else" or will they for once live up to their responsibilites and say, " I don't care what happens to me, just comfort those who have so obviusly been hurt". I suspect the former, although they will couch it in language about God protecting His own reputation, once again pretending they are the chosen people and God cannot survive without them.

But they have to remember what Mr Black used to say, "the wheels of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small". I honestly believe this is God holding them to account for their past actions.

Thanks for the welcome. yes, my point about the PVG forms was more of an answer to something on the latigo site... I can't remember exactly what... rather than the physical aggression. The only person I saw being physically aggressive towards younger people at cumbernauld was DR, though there is another member who's been around for years who I won't name but some may be able to guess, who can be quite cruel in what they say, a lot of mocking and insults, some of which I personally heard were derogatory against disabled people and racist. Of course no one pulled her up for it because she is "hilarious" and "just having a laugh". I personally think she's disgusting and was always wary of her when I attended.

I feel that I have to watch what I say on this forum so as not to get the good people still attending into trouble... this strikes me as very wrong. I wanted to give an example of a time I was publicly humiliated by DR (I was around 13/14 at the time) over something that wasn't particularly wrong but to a young person that kind of shaming tactic was very upsetting, one of the other adults was very disapproving and tried to comfort me. Despite this being a good thing, I don't want to identify the person in any way because I'm afraid they'll get in trouble. While i have no love for the struthers organisation I have always slightly disagreed with it being named as a "cult" before (probably because I got out very easily and maintained friendships - I seem to be in the minority there) but alarm bells are starting to ring. I almost feel like the mafia are going to come after me!

Quote
E.Ray
While i have no love for the struthers organisation I have always slightly disagreed with it being named as a "cult" before (probably because I got out very easily and maintained friendships - I seem to be in the minority there) but alarm bells are starting to ring. I almost feel like the mafia are going to come after me!

Welcome here E.Ray

The information you've submitted here is extremely appreciated and I'm so happy to read a clear vindication from yourself - a witness to what Covlass reported all the way back when this thread first kicked off.

I also tend to agree that one is better off using a label such as "destructive church" or "abusive church" to depict what is going on.

This is because I disagree with Mr Laud and agree with ThePetitor and others ( including RR ) regarding this word.

This label Cult has become adopted by those christians ultra-keen on enforcing a doctrinal orthodoxy - simply as a means to denigrate and label any group of believers who's DOCTRINES don't happen to agree with the "official position'.

As regulars here will know - the RR definition of Cult is to do with PEOPLE and how PEOPLE in leadership roles abuse their positions of authority and not necessarily not just in religious groups. ( Amway anyone ? ) .

I think it must have been around the 70s maybe 60s that it became common for evangelicals tp produce books outlining all the different sects, religions etc that were out there - and wherever a sect was clearly claiming t be Christian ( or even evangelical ) then any deviation from standard ( typically Reformed ) theology - would instantly get that group labelled a Cult.

there are in fact THREE usages of this word Cult.

!) Anthropologists and archaeologists use this term merely to depict a set of religious practices, typically including liturgies, objects and of course - teachings. There is NO value judgement as these scholars use the term.

2) Sociologists and psychologists started using this term in a way implying harm - when we saw the rise of moonies, scientology etc and all the sects where unquestioning yielding to leaders was expected.

3) Christians particularly evangelicals used ( and still do use ) the label - simply to point out sects who MAY be cults according to 2) but more importantly - teach a different theology to the "orthodox" position.

Personally I think Abusive Church does seem to describe what we see here. And even christian writers who specialise in this arena use this term.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2013 10:37PM by Clive.

Welcome E.Ray. I just wanted to say I'm glad you managed to get out clean, so to speak. I suppose I did too, but due to family circumstances. I just hope you are fine and continuing down your chosen path. You find somewhere else to attend yet? Or are you assessing the options, seeing as there are so many real Christian fellowships out there.
I am glad you posted as it is reassuring to know, for sure, that the congregations still contain some free thinkers. So it's not so much "the blind leading the blind" as the wrong leading the wary. This is an encouraging sign. :)
I wish you well.
As I do all, of course! Ifellaway

Hi folks

Welcome E.Ray, it's so good to hear from you and to have another voice added to the multitude - giving more credence to what we have all been saying for so long. I knew DR while she was still a young woman and I have previously posted my own feelings of apprehension when around her. I was utterly shocked to discover that she is a pastor of SMC. To me it made absolutely no sense since there are so many, as you say, more Christian and humble people who would be more worthy of the privilege of leading God's flock. It is unfortunate that she is allowed to continue in this hallowed role but shows that none of the other leaders are any better for condoning her behaviour. This, of course, is due to the fact that they all hold the same views anyway and, thus far, have had free-reign to destroy lives and faith in those they have been charged with the soul-protection of.

CovLass, you warm my heart with your humble request for prayers for the innocent in SMC and we will all keep those ordinary members in our prayers and hearts.

Lintar123, my heart goes out to you and I know that many other marriages have been sorely affected by the interfering busy-body leaders who just cannot stand aside to let God do the work he wants to do in people's lives. This is why the church has been largely ineffective in any type of revival because the leaders are putting themselves above God and I believe that this is now the time of reckoning for them all.

In true SMC style - I am going to say, God will punish those who stand against Him (although SMC leaders will quote that as 'God will punish those who stand against US, as leaders'). Right now, I would have to say the tables are turning. I'm absolutely certain that if we were in the wrong to be writing on this forum, God would have silenced us a long time ago. But look what's happening folks! WE are beginning a revival here.....
... the revival of the TRUE WORD of GOD in a den of emotional and spiritual thieves!

I do feel for the ordinary members who will, no doubt, be copping some flak over this but perhaps they need the heads-up to bring them back to what God actually wants and away from what self-proclaimed holy-Joe's - who are seeking nothing but absolute power for themselves - want.

My heart and my prayers go out to those who are genuinely confused and afraid to speak out against such UN-holy, UN-worthy, UN-Christian and downright UN-healthy and dangerous would-be pontificators, who think they are above the law and can treat people in whatever way they please. They are a million miles away from what God says in his life-guide to us, The Holy Bible.

As always, biiiiiiiiig LOVE and huge huggggggggs to all
God Bless xxxx

I have just read the new article put on the Latigo site, entitled "Update, Two and a Half Years On". It asks about why SMC has still not produced a book of rules, setting out clearly what their beliefs really are and explaining how people who join the church will be treated. Two and a half years have gone by, with this Forum continually buzzing with posters old and new who tell their story about how SMC has negatively affected their lives, but still no response or thought of apology from the SMC leadership.

As Latigo point out, such a book of rules, if they were ever to bring one out for public viewing, would be too appalling, abusive and ambiguous to be acceptable in a modern day church, and would not adhere to the teachings in the New Testament regarding church management. Such a book of rules would not meet with the approval of OSCR either, since charities must show transparency and must show they are benefitting the public. How can banning, shunning, refusing to answer people's genuine questions, interfering in people's marriages or decisions to marry, be of benefit to the public? Perhaps, as Latigo suggest, SMC leaders could answer that.

They can fob us off and tell the church that we who post here are mentally ill and backslidden agents of the devil, but they will not be able to tell the OSCR officials that. Will SMC say that the OSCR staff are mentally ill and agents of the devil too? That won't work. They are a government body and in this country, we have moral laws based on fairness, equality and human rights. So that means we all have a right to speak and give our story, as we have done on here. I know there are many other ex-SMC folk who do not post here but who have similar stories of the bad treatment they received. One day, SMC will have to face up to that...surely.

Rensil, I'm still laughing. A book of rules would be like a Stephen King novel.
Anyway , I am both mentally ill and backslidden (I admit..). Nonetheless, in the real world, my opinion is valid.
I think that the leaders of smc have actually mislaid their belief in God; and a long time ago. But they seem completely content to believe in themselves. I would not want to be them when it all comes home. It will be hard to sympathize.
Their condition is a form of mental illness too (err...I think?).

Hi folks

Rensil and Ifellaway, ROTFLMFAO (Rolling on the floor laughing my flipping ass off)!! I looooove Stephen King!

Anyway, I took it upon myself to help the leaders of SMC out with their rulebook, so they don't even have to lift a finger. Here it is:

1. All women have lesbian tendencies and must be delivered from them.
2. All men are too hilarious and must be silenced
3. The message given in the Bible is not entirely true and can be changed to suit our needs as and when it pleases us or enhances our current topic of sermonising.
4. All children must sit absolutely still at all times and be totally rapt with our sermonising.
5. All marriages will be arranged, conducted and supervised by SMC leaders.
6. Paid jobs within the charity will be only be given to leaders and their families.
7. The following are deemed unholy:
Women who don't wear hats
Women who wear trousers
Men who laugh too much
Television
Christmas presents
Facebook
Youtube
Flickrr
Asking questions about the leadership and beliefs
Marrying someone not approved by leaders of SMC
Family life
Friends and social life outside of SMC
People who speak against SMC leaders
People who do not revere SMC leaders
People who love God more than SMC leaders
Being too young
Being too old
Being ill
Having mental problems and issues
Having an epileptic fit during a service
Refusing deliverance ministry
Denying having lesbian tendencies
Dying hair
Wearing make-up
Wearing clothes we deem inappropriate
Praying in tongues too quietly
Singing too slowly
Singing too fast
Having too much fun or showing too much joy
Spending time doing charitable works
Talking to people we deem unworthy of our attention
Talking to people previously banned from services
Disbelieving our prophetic words, even though there is no proof of any prophesies coming true (after 60 odd years).
Challenging the leadership for twisting Biblical verses

8. All Christians are not saved until we say they are.
9. All Christians are still demon possessed until we deliver them from evil.
10. Children should disobey parents when we say so
11. All children are evil and should be abused where possible
12. This space is kept clear for tomorrow's completely different set of rules.

Anyone got anything to add to this? :-)

As always biiiiiiig love and huge hugggggggs to all
God Bless xx

CBarb you do make me chuckle. However you have missed some points out, particularly under rule 7 - things deemed unholy

Listening to any non Christian music

Listening to any Christian music that we deem unsuitable i.e. anything by Hillsongs etc. In fact anything that involves any percussion, clapping or a display of joy

Desiring to get married unless Struthers leaders (sorry I mean God) tells you to.

Eating black pudding (although I am inclined to agree that black pudding is from hell lol)

Just as a side note, this forum has had 2012 views in the last 12 days. I noticed that after I posted on 10the May that there were 113987 views. Just prior to me posting this one, the viewings had increased to 115999
so guess people are still interested in what is going on here.

Thanks for the post but it's now gone 2am and I must sleep



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2013 09:26AM by CovLass.

OK we can laugh now, from the outside. (and it can make hilarious reading, especially the once-carved-in-stone-now-not-applied hats for women rule...I'm still trying to believe that one...).
A quite simple thought came up reading your rulebook Cbarb, and your addenda CovLass:
Smc leaders see satan and sin everywhere, in fact, as we know, they can even discern it! Constant talk of sin (especially the unnamed, unquantifiable sin that they can discern in our hearts that even we can't see...) and spending your life hiding from satan. Well, it's a bit unrealistic anyway.
Maybe they should spend more time concentrating on God, who, ultimately is the Protector and can definitely fight his own battles....maybe then they might actually get somewhere (spiritually and financially).
Anyway, just to clarify. Re: discernment.
The last camp I went to (Wiston pre 1990, i think..) one of these ranters (must have been DR not gg, ) was firing off volleys of accusations and discernments from the front. God was telling her who was sinning and dancing with the devil and she was coming to lay hands on those people, to rid them of demons etc.
Me and my brother were terrified. We each had a half bottle of whisky down our waistbands and, if what she was saying was true, then God was about to grass us up.
But God didn't say nought to her. That's when I realised.....FAKE!
Just saying...and that was when I fell away. Ifellaway