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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: December 21, 2012 01:29AM

Hi guys

On the point about the child being dragged out of the meeting hall. I too witnessed such occassions and was in fact on the receiving end a couple of times when I was young myself.

It's not just young kids who are treated in this way, I remember as a teenager at one of the camps, where some of the services were being held in the barn.

My friend and I were sitting somewhere near the back and we were all on these, rickety, folding wooden chairs. Chris Jewell was late coming into the meeting and, since we were near the open side of the barn, he plonked himself on the seat in front of my friend and I. The seat promptly collapsed and Chris landed in a heap on the floor in front of us.

Everyone behind, who witnessed the commotion, laughed - as did my friend and I. However, MB gave my friend and I a withering look and instructed us to move to the front of the barn for misbehaving. We weren't the only ones who laughed but we were the only ones under 16 in that section of the barn; so we were made an example of.

We both got sorely roasted by our parents for embarrassing them by being naughty in church. I tried to explain that all we did was laugh because Chris had fallen off his chair but my folks decided that my friend and I must have been doing something more than that to be moved so unceremoniously to the front of the room. They just didn't believe me, and my friend fared no better with her folks.

Years later, while pondering MB's motives for 'showing us up' like that it came to me that the year in question was the first year my friend and I were considered 'mature enough' not to be having to sit with our parents in church. I believe that MB perhaps didn't like the fact that we no longer sat with parents in meetings and was, just maybe, trying to give our parents an excuse to take away the priviledge of being allowed to sit by ourselves. I could be wrong about that but I just can't see any other reason the woman would want to exert that kind of control over a couple of youngsters who were behaving like normal kids.

It might be funny but there were many other such occassions, which probably weren't so funny, while growing up in SMC - such as my friend being told she was posessed by demons when she was only about 11 or 12 years old - but that's another story entirely, which I think I've posted already.

As always biiiig love and huge hugggs to all
God bless xxx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2012 01:32AM by cbarb.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: clare ()
Date: December 22, 2012 05:00AM

I was wonderng how many of the SMC leaders are also school teachers either at Cedars or elsewhere?
It seems, having read cbarbs last post, that there is an overlap between work-place and pulpit. A mixing up of roles and interaction, between class and congregation.
What maybe appropriate to say to a class of giggling children if someone falls off their chair, becomes unacceptable and overbearing in a church meeting .
I have noticed that some in the teaching profession tend to speak to everyone with whom they interact in the same 'tone' as they would a member of their classroom. Its very irritating to be treated like a child that hasnt done its homework !
Leaders who are classroom teachers need to watch this closely.
Teacher training they may have had but it has been stated many times on the forum that they are not trained church leaders and maybe some just assume they can use the same 'tone' with a congregation as they would in school.
I think it is a fundamental error to allow someone to lead a church group on the grounds that they are a christian and have secular teaching qualifications.

Very interesting reading on the forum at the moment .

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: December 22, 2012 11:27AM

Hi Clare

Good to see you. You are so right, you have hit the nail smack bang on the head. I can't say for sure but I think the majority of the current leaders are school teachers.

I also have to add that I have been amazed, while visiting other churches, at the tolerance for families with small children (who can't always stay quiet). It is so much different from the way we were taught to behave. If children started getting bored or making even the slightest noise, the parents were expected to take them outside and not come back in until the child had promised to be quiet.

Children were often removed from meetings for not paying enough attention or whispering to each other, usually the person on the platform would signal to the parents to remove the child. Where there were teenagers attending without parents, the person on the platform would signal the latest 'Church Policeman' to go and remove them from the hall. On most occassions the offender would be expected to apologise to the speaker at the end of the meeting.

Bearing in mind that we were expected to sit through as much as three hours worth of ranting about our sins without so much as coughing too loudly. I don't know if SMC are any more tolerant of children now than they were in the days when I attended but I suspect not.

You have such a valid point there, Clare.

Biiig love and huggggs
xxxx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2012 11:28AM by cbarb.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: December 31, 2012 07:49PM

Hi guys

Let me be first to wish you all the bestest New Year ever!

I wanted to also point out that what SMC teaches is actually no different from the majority of independent churches around the world. They all have pastors who claim to have some holy insight and anointing and many even refer to having the 'mantle' of the pastor before them. Sound familiar?

You see SMC are not unique in any way. They are exactly the same as all the other churches of that ilk.

Now, in the Bible, when the desciples were anointed and sent out to spread God's word, they GAVE UP ALL their wordly posessions and trusted in God to provide for them. They ate and slept with the people they were teaching and praying with. Everyone KNEW they were anointed because of the wonderous works they performed in God's name. They STOPPED thinking about THEMSELVES and thought only about those to whom God sent them. They cared NOTHING for their own comforts but strove to make those they were sent to as comfortable as they could. And EVERYONE KNEW they were anointed BECAUSE OF THE WONDEROUS WORKS they performed in GOD's NAME.

Now, let me ask you. Are SMC leaders really anointed? If you believe they are, then you must have a reason for believing so and this reason would have to be because of the WONDEROUS WORKS the leaders of SMC perform to show EVERYONE that they are truly anointed by GOD (not just because they have told you they're anointed).

Personally I haven't heard of ANY WONDEROUS WORKS by ANY of these leaders and I therefore reserve the right to call them untruthful and consequently deceitful. I have experienced and seen wonderous works performed in God's name but not by ANY of the current leaders of SMC and not by anyone claiming to be especially anointed by God.

So, those of you still in SMC ask yourselves why, after all these years, is the church decreasing in numbers and not increasing? When the disciples were anointed by God, they were drawing in crowds of a thousand souls a day! Are SMC matching this? No they most certainly aren't and this only adds to my conviction that SMC leaders are as much of a sham as all the other independent pastors who claim the same anointing but don't actually have anything to show for it.

If these guys were anointed by God then HE would be bringing the souls to SMC to witness his wonderous works through his disciples and the church would be bursting at the seams. It's not bursting at the seams, is it? Quite the opposite in fact and the SMC leaders need to take note that they are not seeing the results of saving souls because they are too busy controlling those who are on their pews and too full of their own self-importance to get the REAL meaning of being anointed by God.

Being anointed by God is a heavy responsibility and requires complete and total 'death to self'. The disciples knew this and they gave up EVERYTHING to do God's work. Have SMC leaders given up anything? Homes, jobs, clothes, food.... all of these were given up by the disciples so that they had NOTHING but GOD to keep them alive. That is the total and complete TRUST God requires from his anointed ones. GIVE ALL YOU HAVE TO THOSE MORE NEEDY THAN YOURSELVES and trust in GOD to look after your wellbeing. THAT's WHAT BEING ANOINTED IS ABOUT... caring nothing for yourself and loving and reaching out to those in need around you.

I've asked it before and I ask it again.... Do the SMC leaders care only for other people and nothing for themselves? Are they willing to give up EVERYTHING to help the poor and needy in their areas? Do they spend QUALITY time with those who need help and support?

Above all, do you KNOW these people are anointed by God because of the wonderous works they perform in His name? Or do you just accept what they say without question? More fool you, if you do. Read the Bible, read about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and read about the sacrifices the disciples made to follow God's path as His anointed ones.

If the SMC leaders are in fact doing wonderous works that none of us have had the pleasure of hearing about, perhaps someone currently in SMC might give us some insight as to what wonderous works these leaders have been performing in God's name. Give us some REAL examples and not just heresay, I for one would back down immediately if I was aware of any REAL miracles happening. I must stress though that I don't count healing of illnesses, since I have witnessed several healings by pastors who don't claim to be anointed or special to God. I mean miracles which aren't happening anywhere else, the anointed disciples didn't just administer healing for minor ailments they made lame people walk, in Jesus name, they made the blind see, in Jesus name, they made the mute talk, in Jesus name, they made the mad man sane, in Jesus name. These are the kinds of miracles you would, quite rightly, be expecting from people who are specially anointed by God.

What makes me even more adamant that the SMC leaders are deluded is the FEAR FACTOR. Threatening to expose people's sins (real or imagined) from a public platform is NOT GODLY and is very un-holy. This is treating adults like naughty children and is not what the Bible teaches us about the people who should be leading us to a deeper, more fruitful, walk with God. Not only is this not a Godly thing to do, it is quite blatant controling and manipulating behaviour and, as such, is especially abhorrent.

My prayer for the New Year for SMC is that someone in the congregation will HEAR the still small voice of God and make some drastic changes to the leadership of the organisation. In particular, there should be more than one pastor per church or group. The members of the church should be allowed to vote on who these pastors should be and the members should always be allowed to question and expect proper answers, including Biblical references where necessary, from anyone who is given the priviledge and responsibility of being a leader.

Have a wonderful New Year everyone and may God bless you all richly.

Milleniums of love and a universe of hugggggggggs to all.
xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: CovLass ()
Date: January 03, 2013 09:25AM

I think that SMC leaders would take great comfort in one thing alone regarding this forum. That is, that we all stop posting and let this forum dwindle away into nothingness. That the problems in Struthers are allowed to be swept under the carpet and for everything to be 'nice' again.

Contrary to Clive's suggestion that the leaders will sit up and take notice if more people new post their experiences, I actually disagree. I would roughly estimate that there have been about 40 people posting on this forum and Strhuthers leaders have done nothing to address the issues, apart from forbiding their members to visit this and the Latigo site and slating those who post here. This seems to be their Modus Operandi. If you cannot give an answer to the question being asked or an explanation for wrong done, do your very best to discredit the person who has asked the question or who has ben wronged. That way, one does not feel that one has to give a credible answer. I seriously belive that if 400 people came forward, recounting ways in which they were abused at the hands of Struthers leaders, the leaders would continue to act in the same way as they are acting now. Burying their heads in the sand, praying that God would smite their accusers and forbidding their members to read what is being said, for fear that they may also ask questions.

So why do I continue to post and continue to intend to post here you may ask? Because releasing someone in forgivenes, does not mean that you stand back and let it continue. It doesn't mean that because I and others forgive, that what has happened and may well still be happening is suddenly ok. And that is why I post and will continue to post. Because someone may read the post of someone in here and it might help them to see, as it has done with others, that they are not alone, they are not the only one and that there is life after Struthers.

Another reason is to keep this forum visible to those who are searching for information about Struthers. When I was considering my move, I Googled the church and everything I came across spoke about how great it was. This site and the Latigo site give a very different angle to the one presented on pro Struthers sites. I would like people to be able to know exactly what they are getting themselves into if they decide to join Struthers and this forum and Latigo are a great way of doing that. However, if this forum 'goes quiet' it soon drops off the Google ratings (It has been on page 1 of Googles listings when typing "Struthers Memorial Church" for the best part of 2 years now.) Now I don't know if anyone has typed "Struthers Memorial Church" into Google recently but if you do, you will see there are no less than four Flikcr pages, a Cumbernauld Facebook page (facebook was something that D.R. was very much against back in 2008) the original SMC website and now Cumbernauold has their own independant website. Maybe this is just a coincidence, or maybe it is a deliberate attempt to knock an 'unwelcome opinions' from the first page of Google.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2013 09:31AM by CovLass.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: January 03, 2013 10:38AM

Hi guys

Yes, Covlass I believe you are so right. You'll be pleased to note that if you google 'Struthers memorial church' just now, we're still top of the first page! (Rock ON!)

I was reading up on JP Struthers (for whom the church is named) and, would you believe it - JP Struthers was a theologian. Yes he studied theology at Glasgow and even won a few prizes.

So here we have a dilemma do we not? Struthers leaders don't believe that they need to have any theological qualifications to be preachers and yet the guy for whom they named the church (presumably because they follow his line of teaching, or at least subscribe to it) was a well qualified theologian and presbyterian minister. Hmmm.... food for thought?

I also found a rather amusing blog-post on the BBC blog...

Quote

Chris (75) : At the age of 17, and just about to leave school, I couldn't resist the temptation - having been specifically invited to do so - to tangle with my headmaster on matters of theology in a public discussion at the end of my final term.

Our (now late) school Rector, Hugh Black, was, though I didn't know it at the time, the head of the Pentecostal Church in Scotland. I just knew him then as head of the Struthers Memorial Church which I'd stopped going to a couple of years before.

He'd spent most of that lunch hour, batting back perfectly sound logical and rational questions from the floor - each time using this-or-that esoteric quotation from The Bible. I was losing patience with the lack of logical answer; but I knew he knew The Bible a lot better than I did.

So I stuck to what I knew: "Sir, you're answering every question with a quote from the Bible, being careful to stress every single word's exact meaning. But the English version you're quoting from is a translation of a translation of someone's interpretation... etc ... how can you know that what we have today is what was actually meant?"

He glared at me for several very long seconds, hooded his little glittering eyes, and spoke in a strange voice that owed more to The Exorcist than to Greenock:

"Young lady... come the Day of Judgement ... I would not like to be in your shoes."

Game set and match. To me! By being a bully, he'd handed me the popular vote - for the first time in six years at that awful school. Utterly confusing but I knew I hadn't lost anything.

I do hope he's nice and warm now.



I don't know about you guys but I found this hilarious coz I could just see old Totty Black getting hot under the collar about being sassed by a youngster in this way. And the final statement is just so typical of SMC mentality... if you can't win the fight, predict hell fire and brimstone on the head of the quesitoner.!! LOL :-)

I just had to share that one with you all although the comment doesn't come from anyone posting on this site (at least I don't think they are posting here) - it's actually from a discussion on terrorism on one of the BBC blogs, where they are also discussing mind control tactics used to incite young people to commit terrorist acts......
strange the places you find references to Hugh Black and SMC, innit?

As always

Biiiiig love and huge huggggggs to all.
God bless xxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: January 04, 2013 05:06AM

I too, would like to wish everyone a happy new year filled with peace, joy and more freedom. People in SMC are in desperate need of all of these - peace, joy and freedom. Instead they experience much confusion, despair and low self-worth, very often, and eventually, even depression in many cases. They get a temporary boost at New Year from hearing the new year promise, which reassures them that everything is ok after all, and that God is still with them and will see the church through. The comfort from this boost doesn't last long, though. It's soon back to feelings of condemnation and self-abasement.

You are spot on, Covlass, about the Google search lists. SMC have now very little they can put on the internet - they can no longer put on podcasts, sermons or testimonies, so all that is left to put on are some cosy, safe, Flickrphotos of events from everyday life. These are really a bit pathetic, though. You open the link and there is ONE photo only. One was of a great big bonfire someone had made years ago. What has that to do with a holiness church who say they live separate from the world?
Another was of a birthday gathering. Just to make things look happy and innocent and in order to try to avert criticism of the church, it seems to me.

You are corrrect in your surmising, Covlass. Someone told me that SMC leaders had instructed their people to keep going onto the SMC links on Google in order to make the "bad" ones drop out of sight, (ie. Rick Ross and Latigo sites). Well, it hasn't happened, has it?!

Just to clear something up.: Cbarb, you mention J.P. Struthers. We were always told that SMC wasn't named after him because they followed his theology but simply because he had been minister of the building in Greenock which SMC bought and they had to have a name for legal purposes, so they just made it Struthers Memorial. J.P. Struthers certainly wouldn't have approved of SMC because he, as a presbyterian minister, would not see it right that women could be ministers, nor would he believe in speaking in tongues or full immersion water baptism. So, it's just a name, nothing more. Makes one wonder if it was another attempt to look like a normal church and avoid any criticism.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: January 04, 2013 05:48AM

Hi Rensil

Thanks for that. I really didn't realise the name meant nothing but I vaguely remember books by JP Struthers going around the church at one point and perhaps that's why I thought there was some deeper meaning to the naming of the organisation. Well that clears up one dilema anyway, at least I don't need to bust my brain over that confusion any more :-)

It's a shame that all the other dilemas couldn't be sorted out so easily. Well, they could be if the SMC leaders were willing to make some drastic changes to their teaching and leadership structure .... not very likely I think.

However, we can still play the same Google game for a bit of fun can't we? Instead of using your favourites to connect to the site, just Google it and click on the link there! Voila! we reamain as prominent as ever!

Having said that though, the forum doesn't stay quiet for very long and google recognises active blogs as well as searches so as long as we keep shouting Google will keep hearing and SMC will just have to keep working on their supression tactics. Good luck with that one!

As always huge love and mega hugggggs to all
God bless xxxxx

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lintar123 ()
Date: January 05, 2013 05:21AM

I would also like to wish everyone a happy 2013 and state that my New Year`s resolution is to keep posting on this very worthwhile forum and my greatest desire is that we would get some answers from the perpetrators.
I recognise the comment about SMC leaders who are teachers . As a teacher of many years standing who recognises the professionalism and the code of conduct necessary, it makes it even more disturbing that the "goings on" are allowed to happen. That`s why the Cedars school has always been a big concern of mine. Children look to the teacher as a role model. I dont believe for a minute that there is no struthers teachings in their lessons. I often wonder as well about what happens in the classrooms of the struthers teachers who are employed in local authorities. A class is a captive audience. The story about DRs husband working voluntarily in her class room absolutely horrifies me. Has there been any responses made to the OSCR? as referred to in a previous post. Charity? Charitable? methinks not.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 06, 2013 07:59AM

b4u has been banned from the message board.

Attacking the members of the message board personally is against the agreed upon rules of this board.

b4u attempted to post such attacks.

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