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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 20, 2010 01:13PM

Brainwashed, one of the things I learned from my therapist regarding PTSD might be helpful to you. It is best to do this with a therapist, but you can probably also do it on your own. (and better to be on your own than to be with a therapist who supports Tolle's ideas )

Here it is: Learn the things that "mark" your state of mind when you are not doing well. It might be different for you than for PTSD, but not very different. PTSD involves dissociation from the actual present moment into a memory of a past moment that was traumatic. What you seem to be describing as an effect of Tolle is a kind of dissociation into nothingness.

But there should probably be stages of noticeable change from your alert "normal" state to your "tolle-brainwashed" state of non-thinking. Notice the changes and find ways to stop them and move yourself back to your normal alert state.

You might not want to do this all at once but these things kind of build on each other.

Reconnect yourself to the outside world. If you feel yourself withdrawing, do something like take a very hot or very cold shower, do something physical, listen to some loud active music, get your juices flowing again. Reward yourself in some way, even if just a small self-congratulations, for breaking the tolle-mood.

Find physical and sensual things that are healthy that you can easily use to reconnect and as soon as you are reconnected, use your intellect, too. Go into online forums and argue about politics (mygod! am I really advising this? yes, I am! **lol**) go into sports forums and tell someone their team is a bunch of wusses, go into youtube and watch a bunch of comedies, anything to get ALL your juices flowing. Join an active team of somekind, whether it is a service team like an environment clean-up or a simple cycling or something like that, just make sure it is outward-directed and keeps you in active socialo contact with different kinds of people. Even just get a part-time job flipping burgers for the heck of it for a few months. Maybe get a dog who demands attention. The key is: sensual connection, social connection, full use of your faculties.

Enjoy life.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 20, 2010 11:40PM

Quote

I feel like my mind has completely changed because of this idiot. I hope over time this will vanish and I will be able to reconnect with my old life.

Tolle was the focus. But its not only Tolle--its the sophisticated marketing apparatus and social setting in which you head about and were given or massaged into curiosity about his book and materials.

Get Tolle out of your head. But also use DSM's suggestions to monitor yourself if you are in any social situation that is part of the New Age cultic milieu in which Tolles material and other stuff like it, floats around, dangled in front of our eyes by advertising and word of mouth recommendation.

Also notice that in the first edition of the Power of Now, one does not get straight to ETs story. First you read introductions and ensorsements. Tolles stuff is linked with quantum theory.

And Tolle begins by claiming he does not like to dwell on the past, says he will briefly describe his awakening--then in great detail, he proceeds to dwell on that portion of his past.

So you get a context that massages your trust and a lot of name dropping endorsements before you even get to the part where Tolle prefaces the Park Bench Story by saying he doesnt like to dwell on the past--and then does exactly that.

How many would bother with the book if 1) the endorsements were removed, and the park bench story were removed, eh?

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 21, 2010 12:10AM

When I was dealing with trying to report the harassment I faced upon exiting NatLFed, several of the people who took reports used exactly those New Age "be here now" tactics to refuse the reports. I would try to report a stalking incident and the person at the desk would say "is it happening now?" and I would say "this happened this afternoon around 3" and the person would say " but is it happening now? are you fearful right now?" and of course I would say no, I am not feeling fear right now... (fear was not the point. stalking is a crime even if you are laughing at the stalker, because it is the effect of the stalker on your life, your job, and your family that must be stopped)

So you see, with Tolle's techniques the person effectively moved the report away from the incident itself and onto my feelings and also denied any continuity from past to present to future... and it happened several times which I believe resulted from some of this material finding its way into their staff training sessions.

The only reason I finally got good results against the cult in my case was that I was persistent and eventually two detectives heard my story and both said "your story sounds crazy. but you just named a couple of people we know, now how on earth do you know them?" Because they knew my family and I were not in their street-crime world and so they were able to treat the stalking issue as an individual crime because they had their own judgement about the events and they did not worry about the rest.

Eckhart Tolle is not the only one pushing those techniques. In that incident I just described, I think the local police were taking community-relations trainings from a county group that had a lot of Tolle-style therapists involved and they were using citizen volunteers to partly staff the desks. This is a big problem with those kind of training sessions that use Tolle and other feel-good crapola.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: Brainwashed90 ()
Date: June 22, 2010 07:52AM

I just purchased The Guru Papers by Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad. This book has really confirmed my belief that ET has manipulated everyone so he could attain power and money. "A guru, to be a guru, must know how to move people into a psychological state of surrender and keep them there." "Once an initial commitment has been made, techniques geared at disorientation come into play. This is done through undermining both self-trust and one's previous attachments and support systems. Critical thought and relying upon previous experiences are made to appear the source of one's past or current problems. One spiritual leader claims to be the real parent, while labeling the biological parents the "devil parents"."

I feel so ashamed that I let go of my family and friends because of this Guru who was able to put me into a state of disorientation. I literally lived like this for a whole year. Completely ridiculous.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 22, 2010 09:03AM

"I feel so ashamed that I let go of my family and friends because of this Guru who was able to put me into a state of disorientation. I literally lived like this for a whole year. Completely ridiculous."

I bet they are glad to have you back. Don't worry about feeling ashamed. That is just the shock of looking at our old self with new eyes. It is a sign of growth. It will pass and you will appreciate yourself again.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: Brainwashed90 ()
Date: June 27, 2010 05:45AM

What do you think about ET's idea of stopping thoughts? If I was able to stop my thoughts and become a blank emotionless slate, I should be able to start them up again right?

He talked about having the incessant brain chatter that is constantly going on and stopping it. Isn't this what grounds us and helps us relate to other people? Without this we are just zombies roaming around with nothing to say or achieve. And what's even worse is that he thinks this state is the "right" state. And if you are not in this state you are wrong or troubled. That people who are enlightened are better than those who are not. And how do we even know he's enlightened??

"Those who wish to be considered enlightened must present themselves as being "above it all" - beyond all foibles of ego. Such individuals paint a seductive picture of a state they can help others get to that is not only eternal but that can solve all the mundane problems of life."

"Once it is assumed that some people embody or express the true nature of reality more than others, an authoritarian hierarchy easily flows from that basic assumption."

(The Guru Papers)

Once in this "blissed out state" it's extremely hard to get out of it. It's a very seductive place and the mind wants to be in it all the time. It's almost as if I'm on heroin all the time. That's what ET is doing. He's essentially giving out heroin to everyone. When one is on heroin they stop caring about all the small dramas that make life what it is.

I just can't shed this oneness idea. I feel like now that I've tapped into this realm it is impossible to go back to how I was. Do people ever get over this seductive mind trap state? I just want that dual-mind aspect back.

I just keep thinking that if one is able to change and "transcend" the ego..then one can return right? Relating to other people is very hard when your mind is completely shut off.

I was once an ambitious student going to one of the best schools in the country. Now I am in a constant stupor. How unlucky I was, that in the vulnerable state I was in, I happened to pick up his book.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 06:49AM

The chatter can ground us. The healthy way to stop it is to be able to focus on something to the degree that you stop hearing the chatter.

And what is this about "those who wish to be considered as enlightened"? Enlightened people don't give a rat's ass what others consider them to be! **LOL** really... it is funny that he teaches such self-consciousness...

You know, the "stupor" (what I think of as being "zoned out") can almost be addictive, i think. It is almost like a mild high and you are free from pain and suffering for that period, right? But like getting high, it usually is not a healthy pursuit on a continuous basis or to any extent that cuts you off from life.

Art is a good way to achieve the same effect of silencing the chatter without losing your ability to think. Almost anything that engages you physically, like rowing orcycling, also will do this, but here is a suggestion using art:

Get a sketchbook, the kind with a hard back and a size that is easy to carry, and some pencils. Just sit in a cafe or a park and while you gaze at something at a middle-distance in a kind of zoned-out state of mind, let your hand absent-mindedly doodle the scene or object or people, just slowly flowing one continuous line onto the paper with out looking at it.

This may give you a kind of half-way stage to break the "stupor". Your mind will begin to engage with the drawing activity. If you do this every day, it is kind of like mental calisthenics, it will strengthen your stamina for more conscious thoughtful activity.

If you are not particularly interested in making art, you will probably just produce some scribbles and find yourself moving into some other direction, but this is just to reconnect your mind to your senses.

Maybe you are mathmatically inclined? If so, try taking some textbook formulas and solving them with pencil and paper every day until you feel youself engaging with scientific ideas again. Use exercises that are intended for a much simpler level than you would want, and work yourself back up to your old level.

It is like physical therapy for the brain. You have to do it every day in short bursts and increase the length of time as you go along.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 06:54AM

An afterthought: have you seen a doctor about depression? Sometimes this kind of mental lethargy is a symptom of a loss of interest in the future. You might want to look into that.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: Brainwashed90 ()
Date: June 27, 2010 07:50AM

"It is almost like a mild high and you are free from pain and suffering for that period, right? But like getting high, it usually is not a healthy pursuit on a continuous basis or to any extent that cuts you off from life. "

This is exactly what it is like.

I have been dealing with depression for most of my life. After experiencing depersonalization from smoking marijuana I thought I was going crazy. I then found Eckhart Tolle's book which I read religiously for a year. I feel that his book masks the reasons for my depression. So now when I am depressed I don't really know why. Now when I am depressed it's even worse than it was before I read this book because there are no ways of dealing with it...because there is no "I" or "me" which kind of makes life a lot more confusing.

I am a musician so that would always help release some of the depression. But now it's like who is playing the music if there is no me? There's nothing I can really do now. It already happened so I just have to accept it.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle made me a zombie
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 27, 2010 08:44AM

Stop caring about who is playing the music and just play, that's my advice.

From what you say about the effect of marijuana, maybe what Tolle did was give you a kind of pot-free access to the same "no-where-land".

Are you at all religious? Do you believe in the existence of a soul, apart from the mind's ego, etc.? If you can accept the idea that the soul is there, regardless of what is happening in the mind, then maybe you can play "to" your own soul until you wake it up.

It is there, in you, or you would not be posting. You would not care enough to try to get your old self back if it were not there.

Do you write songs?

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