Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas
Posted by:
romera
()
Date: November 08, 2011 11:49PM
The New Kadampa Tradition
A friend of mine almost fell for these crooks...
A friend of mine almost fell for these crooks...
The New Kadampa Tradition
Posted by:
romera
()
Date: November 08, 2011 11:51PM
The New Kadampa Tradition - A friend of mine almost fell for these crooks...
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Sile
()
Date: November 09, 2011 07:03AM
I find it completely disturbing that we are discussing these teachers as if criminal charges against them have been established. Are these people in jail, or aren't they? If they aren't, why aren't they?
Sexual abuse is a crime; false accusation of sexual abuse is also a crime.
I find it highly suspicious that if someone here points out that citizens are innocent until proven guilty (the cornerstone of our democracies, right?), that person is accused of supporting sexual abuse.
Taking rumors for granted endangers women. In general, untruths or half-truths always endanger someone. If you're truly a person who is outraged by sexual abuse of women, and you are truly here for the purpose of lashing out angrily at all these men whom you truly believe to be abusers, be aware that even if your intention is genuinely to expose true abusers, you are not doing so.
What you are doing instead is endangering women by perpetuating the cult, "Men are Criminals if I Say So."
My Dad was once accused of sexual harassment by a woman he didn't promote (due to her habit of coming to work very hung over). She dug around in a rage for months until she found some teenage patients he had counseled on birth control. Mind you, these girls had appeared at his facility pregnant, some with their second or third babies. No one in their lives was telling them about birth control, so he did. The woman accused him of "sexual harassment of minors" and he was suspended without pay. Thanks to a character witness queue a mile long, and his record, he was exonerated, but not before terrible damage had been done. That is the unfortunate power of this kind of accusation; we err on the side of the alleged victim, and that's good, but it becomes incredibly important to have utterly solid proof.
Where on earth is our utterly solid proof against the teachers you are naming here? Furthermore, why are you discussing them not as people accused of harassment, but almost as if they were convicted rapists?
Sexual abuse is a crime; false accusation of sexual abuse is also a crime.
I find it highly suspicious that if someone here points out that citizens are innocent until proven guilty (the cornerstone of our democracies, right?), that person is accused of supporting sexual abuse.
Taking rumors for granted endangers women. In general, untruths or half-truths always endanger someone. If you're truly a person who is outraged by sexual abuse of women, and you are truly here for the purpose of lashing out angrily at all these men whom you truly believe to be abusers, be aware that even if your intention is genuinely to expose true abusers, you are not doing so.
What you are doing instead is endangering women by perpetuating the cult, "Men are Criminals if I Say So."
My Dad was once accused of sexual harassment by a woman he didn't promote (due to her habit of coming to work very hung over). She dug around in a rage for months until she found some teenage patients he had counseled on birth control. Mind you, these girls had appeared at his facility pregnant, some with their second or third babies. No one in their lives was telling them about birth control, so he did. The woman accused him of "sexual harassment of minors" and he was suspended without pay. Thanks to a character witness queue a mile long, and his record, he was exonerated, but not before terrible damage had been done. That is the unfortunate power of this kind of accusation; we err on the side of the alleged victim, and that's good, but it becomes incredibly important to have utterly solid proof.
Where on earth is our utterly solid proof against the teachers you are naming here? Furthermore, why are you discussing them not as people accused of harassment, but almost as if they were convicted rapists?
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 09, 2011 07:25AM
Sogyal Rinpoche had to pay settlements. He avoided conviction by having to go this route.
Persons who have been used for a teachers gratification and by a teacher who has misrepresented Buddhadharma have to have a place to discuss this issue in order to heal. Attempts to reform diseased sanghas from within have failed miserably--the powerholders manipulate matters to keep things hidden.
To discuss this matter is an attempt to discover whether one is alone or whether others have been used the same way.
The Rinpoches and gurus use American tax law to get non profit status for thier baronies. If they want our money they'd better give us respect and not treat us like peasants.
And anyone who says Buddhadharma is incompatible with democracy is misrepresenting matters. Buddha came from a clan which resolved matters using a village council system. He had the sadness of seeing his ancestral kingdom conquered by the army of a king who ruled as an authoritarian monarch.
Buddha taught that he had passed on all tha was needed. He had held back no secret teachings. Before he died, in the Paranibbana sutta, he told followers to look to themselves. He did not give instructions on how to look for his reborn successor.
And he said all attempts at innovation should be tested in relation to what he had taught about the cessation of suffering. If it matched, OK. If it did not match, dont use it.
[www.google.com]
Choygam Trungpa appointed a successor, Ozel Tendzin, who infected students with HIV--at a time when this was a fatal disease. He thought his level of attainment could prevent harm. It did not.
[www.google.com]
Persons who have been used for a teachers gratification and by a teacher who has misrepresented Buddhadharma have to have a place to discuss this issue in order to heal. Attempts to reform diseased sanghas from within have failed miserably--the powerholders manipulate matters to keep things hidden.
To discuss this matter is an attempt to discover whether one is alone or whether others have been used the same way.
The Rinpoches and gurus use American tax law to get non profit status for thier baronies. If they want our money they'd better give us respect and not treat us like peasants.
And anyone who says Buddhadharma is incompatible with democracy is misrepresenting matters. Buddha came from a clan which resolved matters using a village council system. He had the sadness of seeing his ancestral kingdom conquered by the army of a king who ruled as an authoritarian monarch.
Buddha taught that he had passed on all tha was needed. He had held back no secret teachings. Before he died, in the Paranibbana sutta, he told followers to look to themselves. He did not give instructions on how to look for his reborn successor.
And he said all attempts at innovation should be tested in relation to what he had taught about the cessation of suffering. If it matched, OK. If it did not match, dont use it.
[www.google.com]
Choygam Trungpa appointed a successor, Ozel Tendzin, who infected students with HIV--at a time when this was a fatal disease. He thought his level of attainment could prevent harm. It did not.
[www.google.com]
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Sile
()
Date: November 09, 2011 07:48AM
He did not "avoid conviction" by paying the women money, he avoided a court case. People pay settlements all the time for things they haven't done, instead of going to court. Court is hopelessly expensive and no guarantee of exoneration for the innocent. Settling, in fact, often implies the prosecuting attorney doesn't feel they'll win.
If the case against Sogyal Rinpoche were rock-solid, the prosecuting atty would have taken it ALL the way, given the amount of money he could have asked for in Sogyal Rinpoche's case.
Settling also doesn't mean the accuser is lying; it simply means it's unlikely the case was solid enough to justify the risk of going to court.
If the case against Sogyal Rinpoche were rock-solid, the prosecuting atty would have taken it ALL the way, given the amount of money he could have asked for in Sogyal Rinpoche's case.
Settling also doesn't mean the accuser is lying; it simply means it's unlikely the case was solid enough to justify the risk of going to court.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Sile
()
Date: November 09, 2011 08:32AM
Sogyal Rinpoche did not avoid conviction by paying settlements, he avoided taking part in a court case. It's worth pointing out that given the amount of money Sogyal Rinpoche represented at the time, it's odd that the accuser's attorney didn't insist on going to court. Often that means the prosecution didn't feel it could bear the burden. Regardless, the accuser preferred monetary settlement to seeing Sogyal Rinpoche put on trial. That itself is meaningful.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Sile
()
Date: November 09, 2011 10:25AM
Sorry again for the multi-post.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: November 10, 2011 09:01AM
The fact that Sogyal Rinpoche preferred to pay his accuser an undisclosed sum of money rather than face his accuser and defend his honour and reputation in court is also a meaningful evasion from a supposedly 'spiritual'
person.
What exactly was this 'spiritual' person, whose claim to prominence is an ability to lead others to truth, trying to avoid by buying his way out of a tricky situation--and is that the kind of example we can expect from these supposedly 'higher' beings?
Its sounds spineless, tawdry and very worldly to me. Money talks-- not a lesson I need to consult a 'spiritual' person in order to learn.
At least we now know what the cash from the very expensive courses is for. Its hush money, a slush fund provided by the students and used to gag any that might speak out of turn. There is always a confidentiality clause in such a settlement--and the accuser's silence is what made the payment worthwhile for Sogyal.
As for the accuser--I don't fault that person for taking the money. Reliving bad experiences in an adversarial court system is like being abused all over again for many.
I know who showed a lack of courage in this instance and so does any other honest and rational person.
Any man worthy of being called a man would not pay up and slink off in the face of such an appalling accusation--your Dad apparently didn't, so why did the 'highly evolved' Sogyal?
He cannot have lacked for devoted followers willing to testify to his exalted character, or can he?
Perhaps he was worried that, in the nature of these kind of cases, others similarly abused and emboldened by the inevitable publicity would come forward to tell their own stories, once the lid was off the can of worms.
Yes, a slush fund is a necessity in such cases.
person.
What exactly was this 'spiritual' person, whose claim to prominence is an ability to lead others to truth, trying to avoid by buying his way out of a tricky situation--and is that the kind of example we can expect from these supposedly 'higher' beings?
Its sounds spineless, tawdry and very worldly to me. Money talks-- not a lesson I need to consult a 'spiritual' person in order to learn.
At least we now know what the cash from the very expensive courses is for. Its hush money, a slush fund provided by the students and used to gag any that might speak out of turn. There is always a confidentiality clause in such a settlement--and the accuser's silence is what made the payment worthwhile for Sogyal.
As for the accuser--I don't fault that person for taking the money. Reliving bad experiences in an adversarial court system is like being abused all over again for many.
I know who showed a lack of courage in this instance and so does any other honest and rational person.
Any man worthy of being called a man would not pay up and slink off in the face of such an appalling accusation--your Dad apparently didn't, so why did the 'highly evolved' Sogyal?
He cannot have lacked for devoted followers willing to testify to his exalted character, or can he?
Perhaps he was worried that, in the nature of these kind of cases, others similarly abused and emboldened by the inevitable publicity would come forward to tell their own stories, once the lid was off the can of worms.
Yes, a slush fund is a necessity in such cases.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
Sile
()
Date: November 11, 2011 12:57PM
Actually, we have no idea whether this amount of money (or any amount) was paid.
People settle for all kinds of reasons, and court is NO guarantee of justice. My friend was taken in on a misdemeanor (which he considered a false charge) and intended fully on pleading "not guilty." The legal advisers told him his only guarantee of having a clean record was to plead no contest, and accept the fine, even that looked more guilty; going to court to prove his innocence was not a guarantee. The jury could find against him, even though he was in the right, and then he'd have a record.
The ONLY way to absolutely guarantee having no stain on his record, was to plead no contest and pay a fine.
I can't imagine how much more pressure there is if the case is something beyond the penny ante case he was involved in.
I have yet to see any proof of Sogyal Rinpoche's alleged settlement.
People settle for all kinds of reasons, and court is NO guarantee of justice. My friend was taken in on a misdemeanor (which he considered a false charge) and intended fully on pleading "not guilty." The legal advisers told him his only guarantee of having a clean record was to plead no contest, and accept the fine, even that looked more guilty; going to court to prove his innocence was not a guarantee. The jury could find against him, even though he was in the right, and then he'd have a record.
The ONLY way to absolutely guarantee having no stain on his record, was to plead no contest and pay a fine.
I can't imagine how much more pressure there is if the case is something beyond the penny ante case he was involved in.
I have yet to see any proof of Sogyal Rinpoche's alleged settlement.
Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 12, 2011 12:03AM
Quote
I can't imagine how much more pressure there is if the case is something beyond the penny ante case he was involved in.
I have yet to see any proof of Sogyal Rinpoche's alleged settlement.
Penny ante case, eh? Where's the famous Mahayana compassion, eh?
Here is the citation
Quote
Quote:
Shock at lama Sogyal Rinpoche's past
President McAleese distances herself from spiritual leader accused of abuse
Times Online, UK/July 4, 2009
By Richard Oakley
When President Mary McAleese visited Dzogchen Beara, a spectacular Buddhist retreat perched high above the Atlantic Ocean on the rugged west Cork peninsula in September 2007, she was full of praise for Sogyal Rinpoche, its Tibetan-born spiritual director.
It was, the president said, "a particular joy" to be in the company of a lama and bestselling author whose "wonderful work" is "known to many people right around the world".
The president’s remarks about the spiritual leader, whose name means Precious One, along with photographs of her visit now feature prominently on the centre’s website, which advertises courses on bereavement and meditation.
Last April the president’s office also sent "warmest good wishes" to a conference on spiritual care hosted in Killarney by Rigpa, an international Buddhist organisation that Rinpoche leads.
It has now emerged that Rinpoche has a controversial past and was once accused in a $10m (€7.16m) American lawsuit of "physical, mental and sexual abuse".
Last week The Sunday Times supplied Aras an Uachtarain with details of the case taken against Rinpoche in California in 1994, and a description of Rigpa and its leader provided by Inform, a religious information body funded by the British government and based in the London School of Economics.
Asked to comment on the president’s connections to both, her office declined to mention the spiritual guru by name. "President McAleese visited Dzogchen Beara Tibetan Buddhist Retreat & Spiritual Care Centre on September 12, 2007 at the invitation of centre director, Matt Padwick," a spokeswoman said.
The subsequent message of support was "provided to Rigpa Spiritual Care Education Programme at Dzogchen Beara for the purposes of its international spiritual care conference".
The spokeswoman added: "President McAleese often sends welcome messages to international conferences taking place in Ireland on a wide range of themes."
Rinpoche, who was born in the 1940s and educated at Cambridge University, is author of The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, which has sold more than 2m copies. It was described by the actor John Cleese as "one of the most helpful I have ever read". Rinpoche appeared in the 1993 film, Little Buddha.
Rigpa has 182 centres worldwide and groups in 23 countries. Its premises in Beara, a gift from Harriet Cornish, an Englishwoman who came to west Cork in the 1970s, is regularly visited by Rinpoche, who is there this weekend leading a retreat.
Controversy has surrounded the leader ever since the 1990s lawsuit was setted with no details of the terms.
In the case, an anonymous woman claimed that she was "coerced into an intimate relationship" having visited Rinpoche on a Connecticut retreat following the death of her father.
The suit accused him of fraud, assault and battery, infliction of emotional distress and breach of fiduciary duty. It also charged that he "seduced many other female students for his own sexual gratification".
The case was settled privately and no details were made public. A spokesman for the Rigpa organisation said it was precluded from speaking about the matter although he confirmed it was settled.
Since that case, further concerns have been expressed about Rinpoche. In 1995, The Daily Telegraph detailed incidents in which students claimed that they had felt obliged to have a sexual relationship with their teacher. There have been other similar allegations, including anonymous postings online, which have been described by Rigpa as "uncorroborated and without evidence".
Critics of the Buddhist leader argue that although he is not a celibate religious leader and is entitled to a private life, there are legitimate fears that he may use his guru/pupil relationship for sexual gain. Rigpa denies this, saying that Rinpoche has "helped many thousands of people to transform their lives in a positive way" and is an "authentic master".
"All these allegations floating around the internet are untrue and the organisation is considering what action to take," the Rigpa spokesman said.
Mike Garde, director of Dialogue Ireland, has now posted publicly available information about Rinpoche, including the details of the lawsuit, on the organisation’s website. "We’ve put it up so people can access details of the case and decide for themselves," Garde said.
Anyone seeking information from Inform is told it has had 38 inquiries about Rigpa. "The majority have been simply for more information, however, they include inquiries from two former members who both alleged that there was sexual abuse within the organisation," it said. "A further two were from people concerned about female relatives who were members."
A number of prominent Irish people, including Sister Stanislaus Kennedy, have spoken at conferences on death organised by Rinpoche. The centre is hosting a mini-festival this weekend featuring Luka Bloom and John Spillane, both singer-songwriters.
Calls to the management of the Dzogchen Beara centre were not returned.
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