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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 08, 2012 04:00AM

Never mind 'me'.

Its time to use R I Simon's insights and for a variety of investigators to begin examining risk factors for boundary troubles in various Asian sects, the way investigators such as Sipes have been identifying and discussing social and institutional risk factors for clergy abuse in Roman Catholicism.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 08, 2012 07:15AM

Ive started a new topic on research methodologies for assessing subtle risk factors for later boundary troubles.

Any further posts are to go there.

This thread's the one for discussing troubled lamas and their enablers--sociological factors and persons who combine to ignore or deny/rationalize the boundary troubles.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 08, 2012 07:16AM

The research methodology discussion thread is here


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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 08, 2012 10:35PM

In a Dialog Ireland discussion of The Guardian article, some items from the comments section.

The Buddhist Organisations That are Thriving During the Debt Crisis by Mary Finnegan.



3. anonAnon, on July 3, 2011 at 5:17 pm said:

Lets stay focused.

often a big organization can do lots of stuff that benefits others-the Catholic Church runs countless charitable programmes.But were not talking about that.

This is about someone in a position of power utilizing that position to procure women for personal gratification-no amount of charitable work makes such behaviour acceptable

4. anonAnon, on July 4, 2011 at 9:58 am said:

The absence of RIGPA response here, be it official, unofficial or officially unofficial, is striking.

There is little doubt in my mind that people have been told to keep their mouths shut, something I find both naive and sinister at such at such a juncture. Off course, if the allegations were untrue, it is possible that much of the damage could be limited by a tempered response. However, someone has clearly realized that, in the face of truth, to continue lying will only make this bad situation much, much worse. Of course, as ostrich’s prove, burying ones head in the sand doesnt do much to eradicate the problem.

5. anon, on July 4, 2011 at 2:22 pm said:

it’s not that striking – they’re just figuring out what to say next, probably too busy communicating with other rigpa people to tell them what they should say, how they should respond and so on. they’re in crisis management mode i’d say as there’s been so much publicity recently and i hope this publicity brings things to a head for everyone concerned.

6. Christie, on July 4, 2011 at 8:08 pm said:
I recently made a comment on article about Sogyal R’s shennanigans on the British Guardian by Mary Finnegan, about the weird situation at Spirit Rock in California.

A break-off group from the Insight Meditation Theravadin Influenced movement by Jack Kornfield to start a Western Meditation Group, made up of a psychology/buddhist staff, seemingly trying to be an antidote to the Guru Abuse phenomenon and The Tibetan chauvinism and territoritality regarding Buddhism.

But a lama snuck in and snuckered them. Tsoknyi Rinpoche, who has just finished a tour with Sogyal they are good pals, just finished teaching together at Garrison Institute in N.Y.

. Just before this article re: Sogyal R. again. Tosknyi Rinpoche is wildly popular with the psychotherapylite/buddhist lite crossover, and teaches at Spirit Rock with Sharon Salzberg, Goleman, and company. They have quite a mutual book endorsing club also they tout him as “crossing the east and west bridge” and he touts them with this lama credentials.

His group is a big fundraising group world wide, and apparently Sogyal is his mentor.

When I mentioned the connection and the irony in all this, that the psychotherapy types are just as susceptible to becoming sheep and in a cult, this whole post was removed.

There was nothing offensive particular, just stating facts and it tells me that Rigpa, and PUndarika and Salzberg and even Kornfield are doing damage control and are “closing ranks” hoping this connection with Sogyal R , the predator, doesn’t reach the sheep in their respective “churches”. It shocked me that this post was removed. These people have WAY too much power and they need to be exposed more, if they can do this.

7. anon, on July 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm said:
it’s all a bit cosy alright, you should ask the guardian why your comment was removed, they have rules of posting which can’t be violated or they’ll remove it but from what you’ve said above, your comment shouldn’t come into that. there’s a lot of endorsement between different groups so i’m sure certain groups don’t want to flag their connection. there are however also a number tibetan lamas who don’t associate with sogyal rinpoche and rigpa because of their own reasons and misgivings.

8. Anonymous, on July 4, 2011 at 10:54 pm said:

Christie, you are being a bit paranoid here. The Guardian will not be protecting anyone but themselves. You will have contravened their rules, no one elses. FACT.

9. Anonymous, on July 4, 2011 at 10:56 pm said:
p.s Do you really think Kornfeld, et al had the time to read your post and complain…hardly! Guardian remove posts at the drop of a hat. I talk from experience.

10. Christie, on July 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm said:
Here are the deep connections between Spirit Rock, Sogyal R Tsoknyi Rinpoche and Sharon Salzberg, Goleman , Kornfield, Lama Surya Das, etc. This is a BIG Tibetan Lamaism/Insight Meditation conglomerate that endorse each others books, and teach together, sucking in thousands into their commodified form of Buddhism for the mainstream.

Kornfield and Goleman and Salzberg were be loathe to let their “enabling” of this predator be exposed, they have been coopted by lamaism , even though ironically they started their group partially to be a more westernized, more democratic movement in Buddhism in the States. .

This is BIG BIG Business in the States.

Do I think that they would write to remove a post re: their connections with Sogyal, of course because their multi-million dollar franchises, and books and coopted psychotherapists lite, are all dependent on their connections with each other.

Salzberg has been on Oprah shows. This is Buddhism for the masses, a buddhism lite/self help multimillion dollar enterprise. They would cover this up to save their economic lives.
tsoknyi and sogyal R.:
“Tsoknyi Rinpoche is a frequent guest at Rigpa retreats in Lerab Ling and elsewhere. Not only is he a son of one of Sogyal Rinpoche’s main teachers Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, he is also one of Sogyal Rinpoche’s closest friends. ”


During this special retreat, Sogyal Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche will teach on the nature of awareness and the mind. Together with guest appearances from Daniel Goleman, Tara Bennett-Goleman and Sharon Salzberg, they will offer spiritual, psychological and scientific perspectives on meditation and on how it can help us to bring more wisdom and compassion into our lives.

This is the very first time that these two highly acclaimed meditation masters have led a retreat together and this promises to be a truly unique opportunity.

from an ad for Garrison Institute retreat-Tsoknyi and Sogyal and the whole bunch from Spirit Rock this June 24-29, just before this story broke in the Sunday Times regarding Sex Scandals and Sogyal.
They would have their PR media machine move right in, as soon as they saw this article.

I think this should be of great concern that a newspaper like the Guardian would succumb to this kind of censoring. It ONLY happened because these people’s names were mentioned in connection with Sogyal and the scandal. Pundarika , Tsoknyi R ‘s group has a fairly big presence in Britain.

As long as we allow this censoring and say nothing they will continue to spin out their moneymaking, cults on the unsuspecting.

Everyone loves Tsoknyi R, he has a similar cult surrounding him , and people become disillusioned after a period of time, and sick of the constant fundraising and soon realize that he has great ambitions and a need for adoration and you checkbook.
How do I get ahold of Mary Finnegan?
11. Christie, on July 5, 2011 at 1:14 pm said:

The sexual scandals are only a part of these kleptocracies. They are here to colonize the “faithfools” .

These lamas come from a 900 year tradition of feudal lamaism that was able to mesmerize their own people for a millenium and keep them enslaved in the longest lasting feudal theocracy and one of the most brutal in the history of mankind.

They are here for the money, some of them are abberant sex addicts but they are all here for the money.

They see themselves as “living deities” incarnate on those thrones, and have been brainwashed since they were 4 and 5 years old to believe this. They believe that they have transcended the “human realm” . This is a master -slave paradigm that goes way beyond just the sex.

Are their good lamas, a few, and they aren’t part of these “monkey shows

The point I am trying to make here, is that this is the biggest cult in the world, enabled now by psychotherapy, neuroscience, tibetophile academia.

The Dalai Lama has his “art of happiness tour” now spewing out his homilies to fool the masses and has them weeping and crying over his sophomoric rhetoric.

Blair and Cameron have totally bought into this lamaism, and would like to see it in the school systems. One of the tenets of “the Action for Happiness” Group is “giving up individuality” Mussolini said the same thing. When lamaism has coopted politicians, and the psychotherapists then you have a new religious movement that will turn everyone into sheep.

My point about this is: that even western buddhists and psychotherapists in the US have succumbed to feudal lamaism and its master-slave paradigm on a grand scale. The ambitions of these lamas is to stay in their Hindustani priestly brahmin role and turn the world into sheep, with the aide and abettance of the worlds kleptocracies. Don’t you remember the Dalai Lama’s tour in Ireland:

Forgive the bankers ” and those that screwed you. “Dont worry, be happy.” This is now a mass “new age religious buddism lite , for the masses, to give up their critical thinking. The women that have allowed themselves to be abused by Sogyal R, are just the “canaries in the coal mine”. Everyone is fooled by this. There are few exceptions.

12. anonAnon, on July 5, 2011 at 1:56 pm said:
Woah there!

Agreed SOgyal is a user and there are quite a few nasty pieces of work in the world of Buddhist Business.

Again, the Dalai Lama’s decision to sell his message as a cure for this life’s happiness, when the religion itself preaches that those who want the happiness of this life are not truly religious sits rather awkwardly and certainly raises qestions, this does nto mean that ‘Lamaism’ is a cult of the devil incarnate.

For every charlatan there are also genuine teachers (if there is black there is white, if there is up, there is down) SO lets be careful. I am a Buddhist and I abhor what these people are doing in the name of my religion.

But what they are doing IS NOT my religion, in the same way as sexual abuse is not part of the Catholic creed. What we are witnessing is the unscrupulous utilising faith to their own ends-that doesnt make the faith bad,
although he anti religious will certainy sieze upon and protray it as this.

In that way, what we have above is not different from the tactics of the abusers:little more than manipulation of a situation for their own cynical ends.

May religion benefit the world May those who abuse it for their own personal ends, be they religious or anti-religious, be immediately exposed.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 08, 2012 11:23PM

"They don’t have the mental structures to treat us equally, because they are still living in the 8-14 century and make sure that that is what surrounds them. This is lamaism. . "

"On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with ‘pure view’ per se-ultimately such is the goal of Buddhism. The issue is the way certain Tibetans have skilfully manipulated the concept in order to facilitate abuse-therein lies the problem. If we dont note this subtle difference, we commit a huge downfall. Here, the problem lies with the messenger, not the message''(quoted below)

Corboy: If you want to stand a chance of remaining an alert citizen in relation to Vajaryana Lamaism and the Dalai Lama's PR machine, get and read Geoffrey Samuels' Civilized Shamans. It is much less expensive than attending a tara empowerment or a wang--and will give you infinitely more liberation.

Follow that up by obtaining and reading Nicholai Grozni's memoir, Turtle Feet: The Making and Unmaking of a Buddhist Monk. Grozni reveals staggering behind the scenes information--yet I had no impression that he was trying to write an expose--he merely wanted to mention a situation and the people who had been interesting and who had become valued friends.


14. Christie, on July 5, 2011 at 4:05 pm said:

This is the problem, conflating Buddhism with Lamaism.

I have been a Tibetan Buddhist for 30 years, these lamas, these third stringers are here for our money. These are NOT the Chogyam Trungpas who taught us to question everything and to speak out against corruption

(*Corboy note: Sad to report, Chogyam Trungpa created a set up where one was not allowed to question his own abuse of alcohol and creation of a heirarchical pecking order> In his memoir, The Double Mirror, Stephen Butterfield, a disciple of both Trungpa and Ozel Tenzin, noted that what Buddhism he was taught enabled him to apply penetrating insight to everything---except to itself.)

(Christine)That teaching was lost on most of us and now Political Correct causes have joined with PC liberal lite weight buddhism, and yes yes CTR (Chogyram Trungpa Rinpoche)was a serial philanderer but he didn’t demean women, he put them in positions of power all over his mandala, He loved women, and respected them.

This Sogyal is a real abuser. These are not the Dilgo Khentse Rinpoches, not even the 16 th Karmapa who was about practice himself.

. These are mostly third stringer lamas, and even the good ones of the young Turks, growing up in India and Nepal in Exile and treated like “little princes” with nothing to counterac their gigantic EGOS, t such as a really wrathful tutor like the old Lamas had, NEVER want to really come off those Hindustani Thrones. Never.

(Corboy note: In his memoir, Turtle Feet, Nicolai Grozni, who lived as a Gelukpa monk in Dharamsala for three years, described participating in a debate with an opponent, a teenaged tulku "prince"--well worth reading--here is the text


(Christine)They see themselves as incarnate deities, and they can never give that up .

Even the pretty good ones, they just can’t give up the “golden throne center and “mud hut fringe” social structure, Never

They are only 60 years out of the 8th century , and they aren’t really out of it, they are trying to recreate it again, world wide. that’s what no one gets.

They don’t have the mental structures to treat us equally, because they are still living in the 8-14 century and make sure that that is what surrounds them. This is lamaism. . They all have a group of rich benefactors around them, close in, really the “house servants”,

As for the Dalai Lama and his simply message of peace, (meaning never get angry , never protest anything, this is not even the vajrayana buddhism of the early lamas, this is sappy new age religion to keep everyone as sheep.

The Kagyus were almost annilated by the Gelupa “Poltical Dalai Lamas”. One of the first things I did when extricated myself from the cultism that started growing around all these current sects of lamaism now, is to read the true history of Tibet.

*Corboy Christines discussion of Tibetan history and the fight between the Gelukpa Dalai Lamas vs the Kagyus is spot on. All of this and more is documented carefully with source material in Geoffrey Samuel's book, Civilized Shamans. Anyone considering a long term commiment to any kind of Buddhism should read Civilized Shamans at least once--because the Dalai Lama's PR machine is so ubiquitous that one can swallow the sugar and not understand that some very bitter stuff is underneath that sugar.)

Christine None of my former Tibetan “buddhist” friends want to know anything anymore.

They don’t read history because their lamas tell them, in there always “disdaining” way of talking about Western cultrue, that “they don’t believe in history”, that’s from a Tsonkyi R retreat, that paragon of western buddhism now, close friend of Sogyal.

His management group are all rich benefactors who “manage the retreats” they don’t actually do the retreats anymore with us.

They just do the fundraising and the PR machine to collect more and more money, for their “causes.” THere is NO transparency in these groups . Because eventually all the students become sheep and ask no questions anymore.

The 501c3 Church status as a nonprofit assumes that their is transparency in their “congregations.” What the IRS or other Taxing Entities don’t know, is that in a “cult” where all questioning is stopped, where you see the leader or teacher as a “living deity” and that you will go to varja hell if you dare to have even bad thoughts about these lamas, i.e. using the varjayana teachings for group thought control, then these lama kleptocracies get to have free reign after they have cultified the “congregation.”

There are good Tibetan yogis out there who want nothing to do with these monkey shows. That’s what we are confusing with these kleptocrats.

15. anonAnon, on July 5, 2011 at 7:23 pm said:

Youre absolutely right about Tibetan history and how some Tibetans dont want us to look at it-Elsewhere on this site there is stuff about some guy whose book was banned by the New Kadampas—because it told the history of the deity they worship.

Thats it, if they keep us ignorant about the bullshit, they can play the game again, even though it already caused the fall of Tibet. As long as theres money to be made, who gives a sh%%

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with ‘pure view’ per se-ultimately such is the goal of Buddhism. The issue is the way certain Tibetans have skilfully manipulated the concept in order to facilitate abuse-therein lies the problem. If we dont note this subtle difference, we commit a huge downfall. Here, the problem lies with the messenger, not the message
16. Christie, on July 5, 2011 at 9:53 pm said:

words, Like we ‘commit a huge downfall” or seeing “pure view ” as something absolute and therefore dualistically is the problem.

I think there is so much distortion of these things because of the third-stringer lamas that confuse the mahayana with Dzogchen , the vajrayana with the mahayana.

The huge downfall is when we as students , who did get the authentic dharma from the old lamas who were not here just for the money, who appreciated our culture, learned our culture and respected it, and really tried to plant the dharma in the west before these carrion crows took over, the downfall is when we sit back year after years and SAY NOTHING.

We also took vows to protect the authentic dharma from corruption and spiritual materialism. It is almost too late, because of the cowering and being coopted into lamaism, NOT what the Buddha taught, nor what the authentic dharma teachers taught.

These people should be exposed. They are in the west, in OUR CULTURE, not 8th century Tibet. They lost their country because of this corruption and they are so thick and stupid this bunch, they are doing it all over again.

It is these lamas that are pots that are turned upside down, that are willing to compromise the teachings for their labrangs and filling their pockets with money, for the sex and the power, and they should be swept away! Then the real teachers might emerge.

The few Tibetan Lamas wont speak out publically because they have been trained to never speak out . Its up to us.

If the dharma is to be planted authentically in the west, not this hodgepodge of psychotherapy/lite/ newage religion light that will be another “ism” used not to wake us up , but to become empty rituals and the selling of the dharma, the very thing that happened in Ol Tibet .

These lamas lost their own country, it wasn’t the Chinese that took it away from them because they didn’t care about their own people. NO COMPASSION>

17. anon, on July 5, 2011 at 10:09 pm said:
Confuse the mahayana with Dzogchen , the vajrayana with the mahayana
Unless you are follower a of Namkhai Norbu ora Bonpo, I find it strange that you do NOT see Dzogchen as Maahayana, or consider vajrayana distinct from the Mahayana-these are fundamentals and to not know this makes me wonder where you are coming from.

However,I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of the third generation of money grabbing power crazed ego maniacs who call themselves as well as your analysis of the current Buddhism being a mish mash of numerous pseudo spiritual therapies running all the way from crystals to colonic irrigation,

This I am afraid is the face of Modern Buddhism.

It took the Tibetans centuries to destroy what we are managing, with their assistance, to bring to its knees in virtual moments SAD

Stay devoted to your teacher and follow the genuine Dharma-the truth will out.
Trungoa said devoting yourself to a charlatan is like falling asleep on someone else’s horse; eventually, it returns to its genuine owner. Again, remember the Taoist addage: Stand to the side of the river and watch the body of your enemy float by.
The time is coming

18. Christie, on July 6, 2011 at 12:46 am said:

Dozgchen is not even considered Buddhism, but radical Dzogchen teachrs and they are very very clear about this, but it came through the vehicle of Buddhism often.

Dzogchen is not part of the three yana (actually 9 yana ) system of Tibetan Buddhism

Namkai Norbu Rinpoche, was a Bonpo influenced teacher as well with great integrity. His western dharma heir and son seems to be teaching his lineage of Dzogchen teachings from what I hear. Namkai Norbu who was very clear about this, as are all good Dzogchen Teachers.

Keith Dowman and others who teach radical Dzogchen Lamas often put down these teachings because they are so empowering, and if you are empowered you are not in these third-stringers clutches for the rest of your life.

Trungpa Rinpoche’s teachings, although a gradual path were always coming from the Dzogchen view. He also taught on “idiot compassion” which is what is pervasive now, using the mahayana teachings (that always said one had to have a realization of emptiness and one had to take care of ones own spiritual awakeing before you could ever help anyone else. Now we have the mahayana lite as well, with the psycho/buddhist lites running around trying to “help” . It is a complete distortion of the mahayana teachings as well.

I suggest Namkai Norbu’s very clear teachings on this, which he always emphasizes in all of his teachings and books: That Dozgchen is NOT Buddhism, and is not part of the 9 yana system. Many people are confused about this because of the way the 3rd stringers are teachings these days, because they don’t get this themselves. Namkai Norbu also wrote eloquently in a little book called “Buddhism and Psychology” about the dangers of conflating and watering down Buddhism with psychotherapy, they are distinct lineages, psychotherapy is often used to help people conform to the society they are in and has also been used as an arm of State control in dictatorships, (just imagine what psychobuddism, with psychobuddhism as the new “happy face” conforming religion of the new 21st century feudalism, when the middle class is completely eroded and there are only the very rich and the rest of us.

Can you imagine how they can repress us and brainwash us with the new age psychobuddhism? Most dharma groups within these lamas scenes now are completely asleep after twenty years of this.

They are into pseudo harmony and cult-like behavior where no questioning is allowed with psychotherapy thrown in. . These two things have opposite uses. Now you have psychotherapists-lite getting a little Buddhism-lite and using it on their resumes.

Just go to the Spirit Rock site and see the list of teachers and their credentials . [] and see how they have conflated the two
The authentic Dharma on the other hand is radical, its to wake people up from controls and conditioning One was taught to question everything, and test a teacher for 12 years (Patrul Rinpoche’s advise on finding a spiritual teacher).

**(Corboy: By the time one has sat in the milieu testing a prospective teacher for 12 years, one is no longer objective. You'd have to learn Tibetan, reside where the teacher lives, and be around people who do believe in the teacher. Most human beings, even PH.Ds and Psy.Ds will become influenced by the group setting they are in during this 12 years of 'testing the teacher' and lose their objectivity. Patruls classic advice is worse than useless, because it seems so sweetly reasonable as to lull us into false security)

(Christie continues)Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche , whatever people think of his lifestyle, always taught us to question everything , particularly spiritual scenes. That one should never, never become part of a herd, but do not trust, because you will be captured as the herds panic. That’s a beautiful poem about this he wrote in Mudra in 1968, when he took off those robes.

There may be still good lamas out there, but they are becoming fewer and far between and dying off as the third-stringer kleptocrats and their million dollar franchises world wide take over often with Chinese money now as they build their million dollar franchises where the new millionaires are in Tawain and Singapore and Malaysia, where Asians don’t ask questions are are used to this paradigm of gold throne lamas and rituals and abhishekas for “good luck” and prayers for a better life and good karma.
19. Anon, on July 6, 2011 at 7:52 am said:
Dozgchen is not even considered Buddhism”
Two things to read: Dudjom Rinpoches “History and Teachings of the Nyingma tradition” and The Story of the frog in the well. Your initial statement shows you know nothing of Buddhist/bonpo/dzogchen history other than what you have been told by someone holding a narrow, insider perspective. Please avoid making such ridiculous statements as it only detracts from the credibility of your other comments which are frequently valid “Dozgchen is not even considered Buddhism” ???LOL

20. Anonymous, on July 6, 2011 at 8:05 am said:
Christie, you say: “I have been a Tibetan Buddhist for 30 years, these lamas, these third stringers are here for our money. These are NOT the Chogyam Trungpas who taught us to question everything and to speak out against corruption. That teaching was lost on most of us and now Political Correct causes have joined with PC liberal lite weight buddhism, and yes yes CTR was a serial philanderer but he didn’t demean women, he put them in positions of power all over his mandala, He loved women, and respected them. This Sogyal is a real abuser. These are not the Dilgo Khentse Rinpoches, not even the 16 th Karmapa who was about practice himself.

I’ve not had time to read all the posts here but excuse me if I just jump in on this bit which caught my eye…I think if you take issue with Sogyal then am suprised you are sort of glorifying and idealising some of Chogyam’s behaviour…I agree to some extent about their need for money, but most of it, is going to projects where they badly need help. If there is a bit of Robin Hood behaviour in that, so what? You don’t have to give. Tibetan buddhism has left you with a huge axe to grind. That’s very, very sad, as some of what you say is valid but condemning everyone and all the teachers discounts the enormous benefit to many of us Westerners. I am guessing you don’t practice at all now. What we who chose to deify and apply Christian type concepts onto Tib buddhism forget is that no matter the shite out there, the light is within. Training the mind is as valid as it ever was, getting lost in condemnation and wholesale lama-bashing, merely reflects that perhaps you never got the point.

21. Anon, on July 6, 2011 at 8:06 am said:
BTW You are clearly a follower of Namkhai Norbu who recently, on the death of Khyentse Sangyum, wrote:
To the supreme tulku, Sogyal Rinpoche, noble vajra brother of unequalled love and kindness
I would suggest you do not add to the virulent rumours concerning Chogyal Namkhai Norbus attitude towards Sogyal Lakar and maintain a considered and diplomatic stance, like your teacher. Repeating the gossip of the disciples only lowers to the tone of the whole tradition
22. Anon, on July 6, 2011 at 8:07 am said:
the last message was for christie

23. Anonymous, on July 6, 2011 at 8:37 am said:
Christie, your posts could be summarised into a tshirt slogan reading:
’30 years of tibetan buddhism and all I got was this axe.’

24. Anonymous, on July 6, 2011 at 9:36 am said:
Christie you wrote in response to my telling you The Guardian deletes posts at the drop of a hat that:

This is BIG BIG Business in the States. Do I think that they would write to remove a post re: their connections with Sogyal, of course because their multi-million dollar franchises, and books and coopted psychotherapists lite, are all dependent on their connections with each other. Salzberg has been on Oprah shows. This is Buddhism for the masses, a buddhism lite/self help multimillion dollar enterprise. They would cover this up to save their economic lives.

They would have their PR media machine move right in, as soon as they saw this article.
I think this should be of great concern that a newspaper like the Guardian would succumb to this kind of censoring. It ONLY happened because these people’s names were mentioned in connection with Sogyal and the scandal. Pundarika , Tsoknyi R ‘s group has a fairly big presence in Britain.”

Go back and read the Community Guidelines on CiF. You are barking up the wrong tree if you honestly believe people Salzburg et al are in contact with the Guardian about your posts! That is some ego you have there. Get a grip, man. If they were, believe me, your posts here would have been deleted, and someone would have been in touch with DI webmaster. Why not ask them. Paranoia and axe…nothing else. You won’t believe me, I know

25. Z, on July 6, 2011 at 12:52 pm said:

Still Christie makes an important point. It’s all the fairly good Lamas who associate with SR (who I am sure cannot know all the details of his behaviour behind closed doors or fully understand the unhealthy group dynamic within Rigpa), who endorse him as a Vajrayana Master.

They are the ones who should be informed about exactly what is going on. So anyone who does have contact with these or other Lamas/Western Teachers really should speak up. Perhaps the next step is to arrange conferences.

26. Christie, on July 6, 2011 at 1:43 pm said:

My point is this:
Start reading the true history of lamaism, I suggest Melvyn Goldsteins excellent 2 volume book on the longest lasting feudal theocracy in the world, that enslaved and enserfed their OWN people.

As long as you still have one “big toe” still in these lamaist theocracy cults , you will attack people who say anything against your clinging to the belief that this has ANYTHING to do with what the Buddha actually taught.

These lamas have been trained since they were 4 or 5 years old to believe that they are” incarnate living being”s on those thrones .

They have been taken from their families and raised by old men in a rigidly structured patriarchy where they become the “schills” for their big money making machines. Most of them hate it at first, and try to rebel but the controls are too great, and soon they believe the mythological narratives about themselves..

They are true narcissists that have a fundamental trauma that is covered over by being glorified as living gods on these thrones.

THis is not what the buddha taught, and to argue about whether Dzogchen includes mahayana teachings is missing the whole point of the original argument. That’s what buddhists always do , they take the argument away and talk about something else, because the cognitive dissonance is too great to really investigate these things.

Everyone wants to believe that they are studying what the buddha taught, in these Lama theocracies, they are not. They are studying a mishmash of animism/Mongol Khan mayahanism, that the Khans saw as very effective to enslave whole people into focusing on “karma” and reincarnation, and future lives instead of realizing that they were being enslaved, and theocratic hindustani priestly brahmin “buddhism” that was coopted by the Hindus to repress people again, after the buddha died is what these lamas are really manifesting.

**(Corboy this is correct. Get and read Heissig's book "The Religions of Mongolia". Full history of the pre-Buddhist shamanic beliefs and rituals of the Mongolian tribes, and a detailed history of how one Mongol prince and then additional princes, made alliances with the Gelukpas in Tibet to come to Mongolia in the 16th century. Many Geluk monks were sons of princely families and worked hard to missionize the tribes, even destroying their idols and ritual objects, replacing them with Mahakala. And it was a Mongol prince who gave the title Dalai Lama to its first recipient. Politics, folks. )

Christie continues)Throw in a misuse of the vajrayana teachings to keep whole groups enslaved,taking vows to never criticize the teacher, never ask questions of the master, etc. when those teachings were supposed to be between a yogic teacher and disciple or a small group of disciples, who had tested each other for years.

Now throw in psychotherapy with this mishmash of buddhism, just as Kornfield and company has done and we have the perfect storm for a new age religon , with a little meditation to keep us “calm” and peaceful from ever using our critical intelligence again.

Lamaism turns intelligent people into complete sheep in a matter of a few years. Why do you think the most brutal societies have had “Buddhism” as a religion? Because this distorted buddhism is so effective in keeping people in line, worried about their next life and censoring all passion and individualism.

(The Chinese emperors were very glad to continue sponsoring Gelukpa Buddhism among their Mongol subjects--the Chinese government wanted the Mongols to become and remain docile and manageable.

various ways of doing this were for the Chinese imperial government to recognize a multitude of Mongolian 'living Buddhas' so that no one of them would have too much influence, and to create a banner system among the tribes to insure no one tribe would become too powerful.

Gengis Khan, who created the world empire, was an animist.

Tamurlane, was a Muslim Mongol.

Babur, a decendant of Timurlane ('Timur') and forged the beginnings of a new Mogul empire in India, was Muslim.

The last thing the nervous emperors, whether Ming or Manchu, wanted was for the Mongols to rise again.

And the lamaistic Buddhism taught to the Mongols did not keep them from becoming tragic customers of intoxicating Chinese liquor. Missionary James Gilmour who arrived in Mongolia as a doctor in the 1870s, was dismayed to see that the Buddhism practiced devoutly co-existed with robbery, lying, and an epidemic of addiction to alcohol that was ruining national health. Funds paid to lamas for exorcisms and burial often led to poverty for families when too many members were ill or had died. By the 1870s, the monasteries were medievally rich and the country was poor.

Gilmour noted that a great hindrances was that his Mongol friends thought they needed to learn nothing new--for they had Buddhism. They thought all others were ignorant.

(James Gilmour, Among the Mongols)

It would be a tragedy if this ignorant complacency were to become entrenched in the West--at the very time when we need all our wits about us.

We are also living in cash strapped times. How many lamaistic fiefdoms--tax exempt--can we support?

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: walter1963 ()
Date: November 09, 2012 09:26AM

It's amusing that a bunch of wealthy secular Westerners who prize their independence and education and who disdain Western religion end up groveling before a bunch of debauched robed baldies from Tibet who teach them to be serfs in terms of thought and actions. Go to FMPT and read their prayer booklets, this ought to scare anyone that you are not dealing with a religion but a cult that turns people into docile morons.

Go read Lama Yeshe's books and get that strong wiff of Nihilism and baneful anti-life mentality that so permeates Buddhism today.

The intellectual passivity induced by Buddhism and described by Corboy's post is evil. What the Tibetans are promoting is absolutely antithetical to Western civilization, personal freedom and inquiry. We in the West took a millenia plus to pull ourselves out a dark age and now we have a bunch of cultists from Dharsmala trying to take us back and this time keep us there with lobotomies induced via meditation and prayer work.

And all this nonsense of meditating on emptiness. Well, I'm sure those Rinpoches will fill those nice empty Western heads with all sorts of stuff that benefits them. Look what's it's done for the Tibetans - brought them misery for a millennia.

By the fruits of their labor you shall know them.

And Tibetan Buddhism is a rich person's religion, the average working stiff can't afford the endless retreats, workshops, following the guru all over the world, etc. The Tibetans really nailed this one.

Worse, they have a bunch of neuroscientists(Tibetan Buddhist practitioners and connected to Spirit Rock) like Rick Hanson and psychotherapists promoting the bizarre idea that Tibetan Buddhism is somehow scientific and at the cutting edge of neuroscience. And they are using these lies to proselytize across the U.S.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 09, 2012 11:14AM

Here's whats sad and scary:

The Tibetans used the axle to create prayer wheels.

But Heinrich Harrer was amazed to see that there were no wheeled vehicles. People were breaking their backs dragging lumber and other materials manually.

Bwaaahaaaaa. The neuroscientists should read some Melvyn Goldstein and, as a booster shot, Orville Schells book Virtual Tibet.

If someone is a renowned academic or researcher, they'd better take care of their reputations and the company they keep.

Or their trusted names will be impaled upon the PR dagger of the Dalai Lama or some other Rinpoche in a re-enactment of Padmasambhava's dance--that dance in which the story of Buddhism arriving in Tibet is acted out by someone posting as Padmasambhava, overcoming and appropriating the mojo of various demons and shamans, impaling their skulls on his dagger, or using magic and seduction to turn them into docile protective spirits.

Neuroscientists these days are like physicists--valuable sources of legitimation. They are like wealthy naive divorcees and widows, vulnerable to fortune hunters--unless they are very careful about how to participate in various invitations to bridge the so called gap between science and spirituality.

We have made all the progress because scientists, starting in the mid 17th century, in the Protestant countries, began sharing their ideas and findings openly, not keeping them as esoteric tantra. Open societies were organized. Journals were published. This civil information sharing, free from interferance from the churches, the social context that made development of science possible.

Esotericism and its lodges, elitism and secrecy, creates intensity, but leads to dead ends.

Tibet couldnt develop a modern state and functional army rapidly enough to offset the PRC.

Tantra was no match for munitions.

But...if the Dalai Lama wins the PR war and creates a new empire in the Western imagination (and all empires begin or are maintained in the imagination) this will give the Gelukpas more power than they ever had when squatting in the Potala.

Much nicer to have clean wealthy people who look like citizens, can generate revenues, exploit the tax exemtion statutes trustfully offered by Western democracies--yet addle the brains of those same wealthy devotees until they think and emote like peasants--while bathing and wearing modern clothing with modern laptops.

The old Tibetan society used the axle for prayer machines, but not for wheeled vehicles, but is co-opting the imagination of even Steve Jobs--with the DL pictured as part of the Apple "think different' ad campaign.

Big irony. Very few differences show up if one looks at century after century of Tibetan art.

Vivid and amazing stuff, excellent craftsmanship--but its static.

Yet willing to co-opt the creativity of the scientific West while fostering doubt in us about the very thing that makes our turf so wealthy and appetizing to the red robed missionaries.

Walter, when you have a chance, offer us an in depth analysis of Tonglen.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 09, 2012 11:25AM

Walter1963 wrote:


And Tibetan Buddhism is a rich person's religion, the average working stiff can't afford the endless retreats, workshops, following the guru all over the world, etc. The Tibetans really nailed this one.

To get an idea, go to various tibetan dharma websites and look at the prices for ritual items and all the gadgets needed for Vajrayana practice.

Contemporary stuff can run up in price. If you like antiques--baby, the sky is the limit.

Lineage charts
Ritual dagger (purba/phurba)
dorje (emblem of a thunderbolt)
Silk kata scarves for offerings
bumpa vases
Offering plates and cups
Images of buddha and whatever deity you are meditating on

If you are content with a simple rosary, you are fortunate.

If you are content with a plain cushion for sitting on, you are fortunate

If you get into the more exotic rosaries made from rudraksha beads or stone, prices go up.

If you do some tantric rituals you may need a kapala--a bowl made in the shape of a skull--or from a skull


And this doesnt include the books, the courses, the empowerments, the offerings made when some celebrated teacher visits, or the cost of going to India or Nepal or Sikkim or a retreat.

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 09, 2012 10:33PM

102. Christie, on August 3, 2011 at 12:49 am said:
So much for Bhutan and Tibet, whose “culture” IS Tibetan Lamaism, and the myth of Tibetan nonviolence:

USA Today article exposes shocking statistics
:Wife-beating study shocks Buddhist Bhutan’s ‘happiness’ chief”
The survey by Bhutan’s National Statistics Bureau found that roughly 70% of women say they deserved beating if they neglect children, argue with their partners, refuse sex or burn dinner, reported the Business Bhutan newspaper”.

Mahayana Buddhism is the state religion of Bhutan, where a vast majority of the 700,000 citizens are Buddhist.

“Covering 15,000 households, the Bhutan Multiple Indicator Survey also found that more than one in four women believe HIV/AIDS is transmitted supernaturally; one in four children do not attend school and one in five children are involved in child labor”
You can take people out of the middle ages, but you can’t take the middle ages out of the people if they are still stuck there.

Sogyal Rinpoche is doing what comes naturally in ol Tibet and in current Bhutan, both lamaist countries. .
103. Christie, on August 3, 2011 at 12:50 am said:
Here’s the link above.
104. dialogueireland, on August 3, 2011 at 12:56 am said:
You are off on a tangent again. This thread is about Rigpa and specifically sogyal Rimpoche. You do not get it, but we leave your material as illustrative of the processes of cultism.
105. Christie, on August 3, 2011 at 2:21 pm said:
No, you don’t get it. I don’t know why someone concerned about helping people in cults, cannot see the pattern here. Who are you moderating this site, that you are not interested in the ‘systemic abuse” of women in a patriarchal, theocracy of lamaism? Which is the root cause of why nothing is done about this? Bhutan and Tibet arejoined at the hip through their diety worship of lamas. There whole country.
Bhutanese speak both Tibetan and Bhutanese. Their lama system which is the ‘religion’ of both countries are locked in a feudal mindset.
You seem to have some agenda to keep this conversation from going to the ‘root problem” endemic in a mysogynistic , patriarchal abusive culture.
Sogyal Rinpoche is a product of misogyny, and the cult of lamaism that surrounds and protects him. Both the enablers, western tibetophiles, and the other lamas themselves, ‘circled the wagon’ around him. It has been almost two decades since the first publications of abuse by Sogyal came out. Two decades later their is a wilful refusal to look at the misogyny that supports this terrible treatment of women.
Just as the Catholic Chuch and its patriarchal , priestly closed system that protected its own had to be penetrated to get any help for the victims of abuse, the same is true of Tibetan Lamaism.
Very odd that you cannot make this obvious leap. This is not off topic, it is the ROOT CAUSE of the abuse, this patriarchal closed system, and it is the root cause of why nothing can be done about it.
You are contributing to the abuse indirectly by refusing to look at it.
Very strange that this is supposed to be a site that addresses the abuse of women by Sogyal, but refuses to look at the fundamental causes.
106. dialogueireland, on August 3, 2011 at 4:20 pm said:
Very strange that this is supposed to be a site that addresses the abuse of women by Sogyal, but refuses to look at the fundamental causes.
We are very happy for you to look at the roots, and we do not have problem of you doing this.
Where you are confusing things is this site is about cultism which includes the issue you raise, but this particular thread is about Sogyal’s abuse.
We have now got your point we have heard it loud and clear.
When framing a budget it is not the role of a finance minister to reform the whole economic system. We are not a site to investigate patriarchy and your particular views on Tibetan Buddhism, but you are absolutely free to make comments on the THREAD which is pertinent to this particular issue.
You are contributing to the abuse indirectly by refusing to look at it.
If we do not agree with your interpretation of our own site which is giving victims and others the opportunity to discuss issues concerning abuse, we are at it as well.
give us a break, and take out the violins!
107. Anon, on August 4, 2011 at 9:52 am said:

Christie makes a fundamental mistake throughout her comments of confusing abuses arising out of Tibetan feudalism with Tibetan Buddhist practice.

*(Corboy) Ah, but is it possible to separate patterns of abuse from social context? Based on the research of psychiatrist RI Simon, boundary violations begin in subtle, small increments. Such small boundary insults may be easily rationalized by an already patriarchal and misogynistic culture--or even encouraged by that culture. In such a context, the risk increases for more serious boundary violations such as predation by clergy of any background. So the battle of perspectives on Dialog Ireland is between those persons who see boundary violation and social context (in this case Vajrayana Buddhism) as interconnected, and those who posit that the two (boundary violation) and (Vajarayana Buddhism) can be causally separated and that boundary violation by clergy can be examined while social context (Vajrayana Buddhism) can be set aside.

THose who are emotionally and socially invested in Vajrayana Buddhism would prefer the latter approach, as would those who might be committed to unity of of all religions and want to keep any one religious system from being examined in too harsh a light.

(Anon continues)There has probably always been abuse in monasteries, irregardless of faith/denomination, and within feudal societies, there has also been a domination of the peasantry by the aristocracy. That certainly happened in Tibet and , in the case of charlatans like Sogyal, who treats his followers like peasants and abuses the vulnerable, these malpractices are being imported. However, to advocate the destruction of Tibetan Buddhism as a solution COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT. What we need to eradicate is the abuse as it occurs within feudal, monastic systems, not a whole faith.

Such a logic is the of the same simplistic logic as that which advocates the destruction of the earth because it has mice.

108. Christie, on August 5, 2011 at 3:01 pm said:
Sogyal “protected” by his lama cronies, but a nun gang-raped is shunned and said to be ‘unfit” to continue her vows.
More absurdity from this feudal theocracy:


KATHMANDU: A 21-year-old Buddhist nun from Nepal, who was said to have “lost” her religion and become unfit to remain a nun after being gangraped, is now likely to be re-admitted to her nunnery, thanks to a growing outrage worldwide. The young woman, who is now battling for her sanity in a hospital in Kathmandu, can return to the Karma Samtenling Nunnery at Pharping after she recovers and is discharged from the hospital, an authoritative Buddhist body in Nepal said.

The Nepal Buddhist Federation distanced itself from a statement signed by over a dozen organisations, including one of its own officials, that had said the attack on the woman, while to be condemned, however had made her lose her “sheel” – religion as well as vows taken as a nun. It said the official’s stand that the nun had become a “flawed vessel” was his personal view and not the official stand of the Federation

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Re: Fake Tibetan Buddhist Lamas - Do you know any "Wolves in Lama's Robes
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 09, 2012 11:02PM

"But once they (the teachers) were gone, we were again subject to the real power of the ones who had the money and so called special tantric initiations that they boasted about. .

The argument that prevented any discussion was:”I am only the mirror of your own delusive mind” or “you are a bad buddhist,full of anger” or worse, “it’s your karma”.

This is Google's cache of [].

It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Oct 27, 2012 19:53:49 GMT.

Quoted from above with interpolated musings by Corboy

114. dominique, on August 7, 2011 at 4:49 pm said:

There is a lot of similarities between sexual abuse experienced inside incestuous families and within institutions such as religious groups.Same denial, self hypnosis of the perfect family or perfect guru from the victim point of view.

Same loyalty to the dysfunctional system and law of silence from the other members of family/ religious group.Same threats,seduction and “mise sous emprise”(I don’t know the English term for that).

It does not mean that all families or religions are the source of abuse but some individuals propagate their perversion under a cover.

Unfortunately, a lot of people looking for the Dharma come from dysfunctional families and are revictimied by other predators or dysfunctional structures.

Like Christie,I looked for the root of my being repetedly victimised .In my case, it was only when I reached the age of forty that I “remembered” a very traumatic childhood of sexual abuse which made it clear why I had unconsciously been seeking for a spiritual home,to fall right into Sangharakshita and other abusive teachers.

Vajrayana or other school, one should examine the teacher very closely and expose him/her to protect other potential victims.

My own Tibetan master has no Buddhist center, has never charged any money for teachings,does not sit on a throne and is truly a hidden master.These teachers exist.They are the true holders of Vajrayana.

Already in the time of Patrul Rinpoche, it was full of charlatans roaming the country but who remembers their names nowadays?

115. Angry Buddy, on August 7, 2011 at 9:56 pm said

Even though I think Christie misses the point with most of what she’s saying and that she probably is a victim of chinese propaganda, I think she is absolutely right when she says that “in 14 years, NOTHING has been said or done by the whole Tibetan lama scene, except to condone his behavior, by continuing to teach with him and to endorse his books, and to basically counteract all his abuse by saying nothing publically and by closing the wagons around him. They are just as culpable by supporting him…”

**Corboy note: This is why I do share Christies opinion that because the Tibetan leadership has been so ineffective, that it is time to examine the entire patriarchal system of Vajaryana and the various Tibetan cultures. Look at the contrast with Western Roman Catholicism. Clergy abuse is now being discussed out in the open, reported in the newspapers, victims have formed advocacy groups and in some cases, legal action has been taken. The Vajrayana clergy leaders are quite adaptable of Western technologies such as PR and marketing. Why not be just as adaptable in emulationing action taken by Western Christian church leadership in setting restraints on and acknowledging clergy abuse? The DL dialogued with the Jewish community to find ways to survive loss of homeland. The DL had better start a long term dialogue with SNAP (Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests)


(Angry Buddy continues)I was a member of Rigpa for several years and I can’t describe the hell I’ve been through after what I experienced there and after leaving the Organization. Over the last years, I completely lost my faith, not only in Tibetan Buddhism but in spiritual Leaders in general. I’ve been doing therapy for many years and I struggled so hard trying to find a way out of this, but the way most buddhist Teachers still support Rigpa/Sogyal, even *if it’s just by saying nothing or put a Link on their Website or whatever* makes me so sick and tired that it’s beyond words!!

By now, to me the Dalai Lama is nothing more than a hypocrite…closing his eyes to the abuse he definitely knows about, not answering mails regarding this issue, visiting Lerab Ling and inviting Sogyal to his own teachings (for example in Germany in 2009) or at least tolerating him being invited to his teachings by others…Sorry, but there’s absolutely nothing that can justify all that!

Even if there are some respectable teachers, I lost my ability to trust them and I can’t describe how devastating that feels. Sogyal has destroyed my life in many many ways and believe me, I tried for years to deal with all that in a positive and probably more constructive way, but I just can’t any longer!

As someone else wrote on another website: “

I think there are serious flaws involved when he (the Dalai Lama) is automatically assumed to be a suitable speaker on the subject of compassion. This observation will undoubtedly shock many people but there is a substantial difference between talking about altruism and compassion, no matter how persuasively or learnedly, and actually being able to practice it and the honest uncompromising morality that it requires…His integrity is now generally a foregone conclusion for people who sincerely want to believe that an example of a wise and truly compassionate holy man exists, especially when he seems so flatteringly keen to acknowledge their particular culture and field of knowledge

I have suggested in a previous thread that this is a naive assumption and might benefit from some detailed research but perhaps It’s important to be specific. I used to be a student of Sogyal Rinpoche: one of those Tibetan lamas the revelation of whose long-term sexual and physical abuse of their female students was the specific subject addressed during a series of conferences with the Dalai Lama. These were convened in Dharamsala at the request of western Buddhist practitioners. Initially the Dalai Lama appeared to be sympathetic, but refused to actually endorse any public statement to that effect. At the final conference however, he actually arranged for Sogyal Rinpoche to make an unscheduled appearance and looked on silently while the lama arrogantly proceeded to harangue the bemused audience for their ‘lack of faith’.

(Around this time Sogyal Rinpoche was being sued for sexual abuse by a female student, he then virtually went into hiding and later quietly settled out of court)

Fully aware of this, not only did the Dalai Lama take no action, but he subsequently went on to write glowing endorsements for Sogyal Rinpoche’s book and appear at teachings organised by him. These endorsements undoubtedly made many more women vulnerable to this sexual predator.

In 2008, the Dalai Lama publicly inaugurated Sogyal Rinpoche’s centre in the south of France, where he undoubtedly received a substantial cash ‘offering’. This is more than indifference and hypocrisy, it amounts to an active complicity in the abuse of women in return for cash and prestige.

Where exactly is the compassion and altruism in this?” !!

And what about all those who turned to the teachings for help…people who were already wounded and went to Rigpa in search for help? What about all those who lost all their hope because of what has been done to them! The Dalai Lama does not seem to give a shit, otherwise he could not act like he does!

I’m really afraid of the possibility that absolutely NOTHING will happen, even after the Sex Scandals in Religion Documentary and a possible Book coming out…and the direction the conversation has been going here over the last 50+ comments is probably exactly what Rigpa hopes for…

Someone attacked Pema/Mary, saying that she was leading her personal war against Sogyal and that she was angry…THANK GOD she’s angry!!

That’s probably the reason why she seems to be the only one who is actually doing something against all this!! And also she’s one of the few people who’s in the position to be able to do that!! We should be grateful to her for what she is doing!!

I also think that we all should be much more aggressive in going against Sogyal and everyone supporting him because otherwise nothing will ever change! Maybe we should start bombing the office of the Dalai Lama with mails until they will HAVE to react. Or copy the important texts in this forum and send it to the mayor of every city Rigpa has a center in…Write to the centers that support Sogyal. Write to newspapers and TV Stations…again and again…ask questions until something’s happening…

In my opinion, Sogyal is playing a big part in the decay of Buddhism that buddhist texts speak about. I know some other people who completely lost their faith and their connection to Buddhism because of all this and I’m pretty sure more will follow.
I don’t care about that anymore. I will lead my life without following any spiritual tradition and I will do all I can to stop this abuse going on and I hope Pema is still angry enough to keep going until she’s been successfull!!
That’s it for me. Goodbye (and yes, I’m very angry and I’m going to use it!)

116. Anon, on August 8, 2011 at 10:35 am said:

I agree: Sogyal, and those who ignore his misdemeanours, are tacitly supporting a situation that is contributing to the demise of Tibetan Buddhism.

I feel that this is a result of ignorance (the same reason they lost Tibet) and needs to be challenged. But lets get this straight-the problem is ignorance and feudalism.

Therfore, to eradicate the problem we need to stamp out ignorance and feuadalism in the emerging form of Tibetan Buddhism as it is being practiced in the West-the wholesale destruction of the faith is a ridiculous solution and completely misses the point-it perpetuates similarly ignorant and feudalistic ideas rather than combats them. What do we want to do, replace one undemocratic thuggery with another? The cure for a broken nail is not suicide any more than the cure for feudalism and ignorance is not the destruction of Dharma

117. Anon, on August 8, 2011 at 12:45 pm said:


it is clearly alll to do with money and power and for that, they need their arses kicking. But wait a moment, that means, as far as bad behaviour, abuse, feudalism and manipulation of the vulnerable are concerned, everybody, including Christie, is singing from the same hymn sheet here (sorry for the linguistic synchretism)

Where I do not agree with Christie is on her solution, which is exactly the same as the Chinese solution to Tibetan feudalism-Destroy the religion. And now what do we have half a century later?

A feudal society with the Han Chinese the new lords of the manor, closely followed by other members of the Han master race, with the Tibetan peasantry IN EXACTLY SAME POSITION THEY OCCUPIED BEFORE.This is living proof that Christies theory is a no-goer. What next; end all war by killing everyone on both sides? Solve the world hunger problem by letting everyone starve to death? These ridiculous ideas are what Christie is advocating in her hate filled diatribes.

I for one, realise that, while there IS a relationship between Tibetan feudalism and Buddhism, the two are not the same thing and I believe I am sufficiently intelligent to separate the two. Christie’s opinion is that we are all sufficiently stupid to throw out the baby with the bath water, again, like the Chinese, assuming that the poor uneducated peasants arent clever enough to work things out for themselves-soRry but that just WRONG

118. dominique, on August 8, 2011 at 1:17 pm said:

Yes,a lot of people have lost faith after witnessing the big silence surrounding abuse by teachers like Sogyal Rinpoche.His behaviour has not changed since his translating days.On a friend’s wedding day, as SR was translating for the buddhist ceremony, he suggested she should have sex with him that day.

I managed to keep out because, basically, SR did not fancy me and I met a trustworthy teacher through my husband.

This did not prevent me to again be confronted to terrible emotionnal and physical abuse in 3 year retreat, another taboo subject.I had a myth about 3 year retreat, which is also perpetred in Dharma centers because it brings them money through sponsors and spiritual credibility with pseudo western lamas coming out of them..My own pride and low self esteem led me to go to one of them, although my teacher did not in fact see the point.

There I was confronted with the ultimate in the law of silence, the same injunctions of keeping the samaya with vajra brothers and sisters,ie shut up about the bullying from senior retreatants who established their rules and special favours while the lama was away.

One of these was the wealthy son of a major benefactor to the center and thus was in fact ruling the retreat.

He had already done two three hear retreat and an expert at humiliating and making people crack and leave.

He was known as a thug and people , like in all group dynamics,first tried to confront him but later, realising nothing was done against him, either kept to themselves or joined him.

*(Corboy--reminds me of stuff I encountered twenty years ago when I took two units of Clinical Pastoral Education, a training course for chaplains. Senior people mindfucked those lower on the pecking order and the supervisors were passive. By the end of it, I was in such a mess that for three years after CPE, I couldnt smell hospital odour without going into an immediate and physicial episode depression, self loathing and impotent rage.

But in CPE, one could go home at night - and there was no rule of silence--one could talk to outside friends and get validation and support. A three year retreat sounds like a far more hazarous situation if unfit people are allowed to rule the roost.)

(dominique continues)My speaking up (on the 3 year retreat) resulted in being beaten up by a retreatant.I pressed charges at the police.I heard several similar cases coming from other retrats.I left after 2 years, feeling a failure , a “bad buddhist” and in a real spiritual crisis with my faith.My teacher was there for me.he had also suffered a lot as a young tulku with a sadistic tutor.

If I had not gone to that retreat, I would have still thought I had missed the coach and wasted opportunities.When I read western lamas boasting on “having accomplished seven years in solitary retreat,in traditional 3 year tradition” and their best sellers, I know where the truth lies.

on the positive level, I benefitted from excellent teachings from the best teachers in the world.Some of them were exasperated by the spirit that reigned and manifested a lot of anger towards the thugs.

But once they (the teachers) were gone, we were again subject to the real power of the ones who had the money and so called special tantric initiations that they boasted about. .The argument that prevented any discussion was:”I am only the mirror of your own delusive mind” or “you are a bad buddhist,full of anger” or worse, “it’s your karma”.

I also had to have psychotherapy to heal, find my voice and recognise that, yes, it is my karma to speak out and denounce cultic abuse I witnessed at Rigpa, FWBO (Friends of the Western Buddhist Order, now named Triratna--Corboy*)and among individuals who pervert authentic teachings.If I am alive today, I owe it to my teacher who himself, had the courage to go his own way and challenge prejudice and blind faith.


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