Kassy:

You seem to be here to spam the board with apologies for Byron Katie.

Quote
kassy
Yeah, the School sounds stupid. I don't know how harmful it is though.

This comment by "Kassy" actually exposes her/his agenda very clearly.

First off, here is a person who is running massive apologetics and misdirection for the Byron Katie business, and they claim to have NOT even attended the Byron Katie 9-day LGAT seminar?
If you believe that, there is a bridge in Brooklyn that is also for sale.

The Byron KAtie 9-Day LGAt seminar, is what this thread is about.

So what is being done here is trying to play to people's reactions, by saying it "sounds stupid".
It doesn't sound stupid in the least. That is a deliberate MISDIRECTION.

Its a very complex, advanced, carefully planned out LGAT seminar, that has been designed and engineered for many years.
As proven in this thread, Byron Katie has COPIED dozens of LGAT techniques that have been used for decades by many people.

They are EXTREMELY DAMAGING.
read the Byron Katie seminar disclaimer which includes a "death" clause.

Beware of the Byron Katie apologists, the first casualty is the truth, and they will lie their ass off, and create endless MISDIRECTION, to try to get you into that Byron Katie LGAT seminar.
Watch out for the BKI seminar salespeople.


[Byron Katie (the Work) and thought-disorders, inducing Dissociation] [forum.culteducation.com]

More new reports of psychological damages.

[forum.culteducation.com] [The School for The Work: August 14 - 23, 2009 Los Angeles, California]

[forum.culteducation.com] [My story: Landmark Education, psychological damage and psychosis]

bump

A new report about Byron Katie here:


_________QUOTE______________________
[forum.culteducation.com]
I am a LCSW. I majored in psychology and graduated summa cum laude, phi beta kappa I am also a certified Feng Shui Master having studied under the top Feng Shui master in the world. I am no stranger to sprituality nor to psychology. I attended a workshop for professional CEU's at Kripalu in September of this year, by Byron Katie. To say I was appalled by what I saw is an understatement. I was in the minority apparently.. I watched this woman take an educated psychotherapist who had been severely abused, tied to a bed and beaten at age 5 do a turn around where she assumed responsibility for what had happened. At one point she said to Katie....."Lady you are fucked up in the head", that was the healthy part of her, it did not last long. Katie new just how to manipulate her. It was as scary as it was amazing to watch. It made me sick to see how manipulative this woman truly is. She knows just who to pick. If you are vulnerable she sucks you in and she gets you, if not she basically implies that there is something wrong with you and tells you to go do the worksheets. A win win for her...forget everyone else. Lets remember, she is a sales person...that is who she is, and a good one at that. She is so harsh and clueless to what and who she is dealing with that I felt compelled to write a strong letter of concern to Kripalu. I received no response. How she ever qualified by NASW to be a professional trainer is beyond me. I am all open to alternative anything that is credible, but I think she is dangerous. I truly believe she could induce a psychotic break in someone . She lacks the skills to effectively deal with this scenario, and apparently has waivers. Unreal. No responsibility , no accountability. No kindness, no credentials. Not that credentials are everything either, but this was clearly a vulnerable group for the most part. Over 400 people came for this. They sat on the floor for hours to get a front row seat to watch this debacle. People kept saying to me, isn't this great, I kept saying no, it's not. It is.abusive and harsh. Hours with no break. Had my employer not paid for it ....3 hours of this would have been enough, I would have left. It was the same thing over and over. I do not understand how E. Tolle can endorse her... I thought the Power of Now really had it nailed, now he too has lost credibility for me. We really need good spiritual teachers. To bad that they are so few and far between.
_____________________QUOTE_____________________________

It would be helpful to have a complete dictionary of the BK vocabulary.

I was seeking relief from distress, this is true.

I was introduced to Byron Katie and her book Loving What Is via my therapist in December of 2007. During this time it had a measurable theraputic effect on my well being. I could recognize that my thoughts were way out of line, and that I was reacting emotionally to things that just weren’t true. When I acted as if the thoughts were true, I could see it was causing me stress. Being able to step back and separate my thoughts from the truth of the situation was profoundly beneficial to me. I bought her books, and joined a weekly study group.

In July of 08, a change in antidepressant medication caused me to start suffering panic attacks and agoraphobia. I asked for and received Xanax from my doctor and became addicted in short order.

At the beginning of October of 08 as I began to detox off the Xanax and attempt to put my life back together, I had been studying the Work for almost a year on my own and with my therapist. I was overwhelmed and decided I needed a 9 day “retreat” and signed up for the School at the end of October of 08.

As I write this over a year later, I realize I haven’t visited these memories since I left the School. I went looking for my journal from when I was at the School, and I have no idea where it is. I know it contains my thoughts of what happened there as they occurred and show my progress from eager student to disassociated, barely held together person.

I’m a pretty normal person, really. I own a business, have a child, am married and have bunch of emotional baggage I’m trying to work out. I think scientology is dangerous. I would never imagine myself walking into an LGAT. And that’s exactly what I did in October of 2008.

I got on the plane to LA full of energy and hope. I was going to learn even better how to apply the Work in my life. After all, it had been useful, right? I had experienced that myself! What I didn’t know is that I would walk away from the School doubting every thought I had, having every criticism turned back on me, feeling shamed about every event in my life, and yet strangely having no responsibility for the Xanax addiction (do the Work and see what it turns addiction around to!) Talk about a mind effing.

The registration set up had you go through numerous stations where you got your materials and signed waivers. Why hadn’t they had us sign the waivers before we got there, I remember thinking? Why was the refund policy so strict? No matter! I was in this! I didn’t need a refund!

Then they took our photographs....that we never saw. I believe they said Katie used them for? What? It was kind of like a mug shot though. And there were always people filming, photographing etc.

That first night, as we all sat looking adoringly as Katie entered, and she just glowed on stage like the messiah we all wanted and needed so badly, you could just feel the energy in the room. The promise that this would be life changing...because that’s what they did, make glowing promises.

We were asked to give up our cell phones, ID, makeup, cameras. No outside contact with friends or family including email, no tv, radio, music, magazines, smoking, gum, caffeine, alcohol, sugar, food between meals, vitamins, perfume, exercise, yoga, shopping or any other purchases, or swimming pool. “We ask that you attend every session, even if you have to crawl. If you need help to attend, ask for it. We will carry you in.”

My roommate was gung ho and an NLPer and gave all her stuff. (I stayed in contact with her and found out she applied to go back to the next School as staff.) I held back some makeup, my cell phone and my wallet. I wasn’t giving my ID or credit cards to anybody. I guess I rebelled from the beginning.

I did go along with quite a bit of the program, though. I got up every day and did the silent walk which isn’t a bad deal really. I ate the food and rarely needed to eat outside of mealtimes. Who had time? You were in sessions from early in the morning to late at night. I kept mostly silent between sessions as requested, and wore no makeup.

By day 2 or 3 though, I was feeling like the lone outsider, very squirrely and like something just wasn’t right. We did an exercise identifying a group we hated or were prejudiced against. When I identified myself as a Republican, I became shunned by staff and students alike. As I watched the entire group making fun of those they were prejudiced against, while shunning me, I knew I was fitting in with their deal.

I participated in the fast, I didn’t think it was that big a deal. What I did think was a big deal was how much of the program was kept secret from us. When they sprung the field trip to visit the homeless and we were already hungry, allowing us to only say “I’m hungry, will you feed me now?” I said, no way! I’m not going. As far as I could tell, there were very few people who didn’t go. This marked the beginning of my hatred for Katie and I rebelled in the worst way I could that day: I went to the gift shop and bought every sugary snack I could find and loads of magazines. I went to my room and watched tv all day (my gung ho roommate was on the bus of course) and played on the internet on my phone. Guess what I googled? Yep, BK criticisms.

I saw so many people there with such serious traumatic issues. A woman who was molested by her father. A young girl who got in a fight with her fiance and he walked out the door only to be killed in a car crash. Rape victims, genocide victims. The group from Rwanda was there. And how do I know this? Katie kept having them stand up and do their Work in front of everyone. And anyone familiar with the work knows where it ends up...the turnaround always ends up back at you. You are responsible, you are to blame. Not your baby raping father.

I witnessed a woman stand up and criticize Katie one afternoon only to see her a day or two later looking like a glassy eyed love struck zombie. What in the world had they done to her?

I also witnessed, more than once, Katie become annoyed and irritated with the students. At one point, she made a smart ass comment about “going back and looking at the tape. It’s all being recorded, it’s all on tape.” I just knew in my gut, right then, right there, this woman is a fraud, a fake and a phony. She’s not all love and compassion. I just watched her get called on her bullshit and she got mad. She didn’t “go in” she didn’t “find it”.

I’ll tell you, the Katie that you see on the videos was not the Katie I experienced at the School. There seemed to me to be a very definite performance side to her as she sat and gazed out at us each morning with her “good morning, family, how was your walk today?” I so wanted to believe she had something to share with me that was going to save me, I needed to believe it! And still I couldn’t reconcile what she said with what she did.

I knew we’d be asked to give up something personal that we wouldn’t get back. I knew because I looked it up on my phone that day in my room. My roommate looked at me critically when I wrapped a photo of my daughter with the lame excuse that she was the most valuable thing to me. I watched people sobbing as they realized their possession was gone forever.

I happened to sit in the front row during the “graduation” ceremony and was just feet away from Katie. I watched her looking at me and couldn’t help but think, she knows I don’t buy into this. She can see right through me that I’m not buying her bullshit. My take on Katie is that she loves to be loved. She has a saying, “you love me, you just don’t know it yet.” Very revealing, don’t you think?

I will never forget the blissed out look on some of the participant’s faces as we neared the end of our time together. A lady I met on day one came up to me just in a daze, like she was on drugs and said “isn’t this great?” I was....speechless.

The last day you were supposed to do a half day before you left. This is where they ask you to not talk about your experience at the School, because they want to keep it “special” for others. They want you do to the Work every day, for 28 days, then have a conference call with Katie and talk about our experience. My sheet says “This is only a beginning....”

I booked an early flight out of LA I was so eager to get out of there and I had no intention of staying that half day. I needed my stuff back that I had turned in, and the staff members wouldn’t tell me who/when I could get it back. They said they had to ask so and so about how I could get my stuff back. I found out later they knew exactly how we were to all get our belongings back, they just had to control every aspect of our entire experience.

I walked out of that hotel and left Byron Katie behind for a very long time. I came home disassociated, doubting my every thought and feeling more ashamed and guilty that I had before I went there. My shame continued and I spiraled into an out of control 6 months of drug and alcohol abuse. I did the work and “I shouldn’t drink” became I should drink. And I became ashamed of things that weren’t my fault. My world was completely turned around.

I eventually left the therapist who introduced me to Byron Katie and the work. I got sober with the help of an outpatient recovery group and have been for 7 months. I am clear headed and for some reason ready to purge all that I experienced with BK and the work. I am happier than I have been in years and I haven’t seen a therapist or done the work to get to this point.

Thanks, chicky monkey, for sharing your experience. It's now on this board for all the world to see. People now, and in the future, will get another personal account, critically examining Byron Katie's shenanigans, from someone who was right there in it. Also, your posting bumps this particular thread, which I believe to be important.

You mentioned how your Googling on your cellphone had produced the criticisms that opened your eyes a bit to what Katie was all about. That's pretty much my story, too. The difference between us is that I was two steps away from the seminar, when I Googled Byron Katie's name. I had read one of her latest books, A Thousand Names For Joy, and had signed up for the online version of "The Work." Feeling a little clearer, but still unfulfilled, I went to the bookstore and read a little from an older book. Something was wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I didn't like the price, either. It just seemed too expensive to buy books that didn't "do it" for me. That was the point I Googled Bryon Katie and found this forum, which was now a little over a year ago. The rest of the story is spectacular, in that I am now using my critical mind in everything and happier than I've ever been. I've thrown out nearly everything related to gurus and the like, and am working on cleaning out the rest.

So, thank you for taking the time to courageously share your story. One thing about it, by the way, stands out like a sore thumb to me: Your therapist recommended Katie's books. That is a travesty, and it shows that even professionals can be hoodwinked by Katie. People need to be aware of that, and you have helped.

Good luck in your sobriety, both physical and mental.

qd

Yes, Quackdave, my therapist taught me to do the Work.

I’m just now starting to realize how angry I feel with my therapist for the dangerous work we did with BK’s Work. Not only did he introduce me to the Work, we spent most of our weekly sessions addressing my issues and concerns by answering the 4 questions and doing the turnaround. The study group I joined was a 2 hour group ran by him that met once a week in the evenings that would normally be considered group therapy, but we applied the Work to our issues.

He was very supportive and gleeful when I went to the School, saying it was just what I needed. He had seen Katie speak locally just a few months before and was enamored of her. He recommended her other books to me. He flat out told me he thought she was “enlightened”. That was the exact word he used.

When I look back now, I shudder to think at how irresponsible and unethical it was of him to not recognize the dangerous slippery slope of her methods. And to be honest with you, there were LOTS of therapists and life coaches at the School learning how to facilitate the Work with their clients.

I never told him how I truly felt about the School and the things that had happened there. He thought it was a wonderful opportunity for me for growth.

In fact, I never told anyone. I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I had to tell my husband in the weeks before I went that I was addicted to Xanax. Now I had to tell him I wasted $5,000 of our money on a con artist? That I missed Halloween with our 2 year old daughter to hang out with a bunch of blissed out BK love junkies?

What you read here on these boards are the first I have ever told anyone of my experiences at the School and my shame about it. Still blaming myself, I guess.

They taught you to do that really well at the School. I’m sure the idea is not new in mind control to get people to blame themselves, but I don’t know enough about them to speak of it. I know that what I experienced was a system perfectly designed to always turn everything back to yourself to keep the system intact. Meaning, you have a problem with BK or the School? It’s a projection of you and you need to do the Work. The system is designed in a way to allow no feedback or criticism of itself and always turn it back to the blamer, and then make the blamer take responsibility. The SYSTEM then is responsible for nothing, always perfect.

BK claims over and over that she’s never been angry, never had a negative emotion since 1986 or whenever. Yet I watched her get angry more than once. So there was a disconnect between her claims and the reality. The SYSTEM tells you that you are projecting YOUR anger onto her and it’s YOUR problem. See the perfection of keeping the system intact?

But a sane person, and I like to think I was, saw this was not true. No, I’m not projecting. She was angry. That WAS reality. She was a smart ass.

So then I began to doubt everything she was teaching. If there were such huge holes her program, she couldn’t even LIVE what she was saying, so what was her end game? She obviously wasn’t enlightened. Did she really want to help us and just didn’t know how? Was I criticizing a truly generous, albeit frustrated person who had given so much of herself? I knew it wasn’t so. There were too many red flags. Too many things wrong, and MY opinion was she was a twisted person who desired power, control, love and money.

@ chicky monkey

[main Byron Katie thread] [forum.culteducation.com]

Thanks for your report, it contains an enormous amount of important information.

One of the most interesting things you said, is your BK roomate was an NLPer, who went back to be "STAFF". That is how it works. That roomate, if really experienced in NLP would see most of what Byron Katie was doing to people with her techniques, and how much money Byron Katie was making, and then go and run the same patterns in her own "coaching" business, and use a similar New Age front as Byron Katie, with all the advanced NLP persuasion techniques hidden behind that wrapper.
Its a perfect disguise to for a "coach" represent themselves as a New Agey type person, as that makes people feel more trusting. Meanwhile, behind the curtain advanced NLP persuaders are doing complex techniques.

That is why Stever Robbins, a big NLPer also "loves" Byron Katie, he loves how Byron Katie is able to conceal the advanced NLP tech inside a New Agey wrapper. That makes it far more powerful, as people have no clue of what is being done to them.
You go Stever Robbins! Make those dollars exploiting vulnerable people for massive profits and advanced manipulation 101...A real bunch of manipulative dishonest creeps.


As far as "therapists", many of them don't even need a license in certain states, so they can be clueless and not helpful. But even if they are registered, many therapists can be EASILY duped by Byron Katie's methods, as even trained therapists get ZERO training in advanced persuasion. They know nothing about it, and just take Byron Katie at face value, which is a horrible mistake. Even some highly trained therapists can be naive, as they went from high school, to university, to opening a practice. What do they know of the world of sharks and sophisticated con-artists? They can be suckered very easily.

So one must always very carefully scrutinize a therapist, just like anyone else.
There are lots of great ones, and lots of crappy ones, of course.
Any therapist who uses their practice to hook people into Byron Katie's nightmare, is either terribly naive, clueless, or grossly incompetent, or is making BK money and using her methods themselves.
Even Byron Katie says what she does has nothing to do with "psychology" or therapy, she says that so she does not get in trouble with the authorities.

And always remember "The Work" is just a HOOK to catch the fish. The Work is a deception, as explained in great detail in the other thread. The real techniques are concealed.

Byron Katie does make you doubt every thought and blame yourself for everything. Why she does this is explained in the other thread.

Byron Katie hides the waivers before the seminar so people don't read them!! If people read them at home, they would not attend, but no one, no one is going to read those waivers properly in a line of high-pressure people. And she also doesn't want you to take those waivers to an attorney. Its another conscious scam by Byron Katie.

THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com]

They take the photos for the digital dossier they keep on each person. They put the photo, with all of the personal information, and personal financial information, into their computers, so the Byron Katie salespeople know who to target for more seminars, and which buttons to push.

The refund policy is strict because Byron Katie is so greedy, and doesn't want people attending to get their money back. With Byron Katie, everything is a one way street to Byron Katie.

They take everything a person has, and block all contact with family, as that is literally a powerful step in brainwashing...oops...Mind Cleanse...Brain Wash...same thing.

They block caffeine as they know caffeine headaches can be horrendous. One should NEVER go cold turkey on caffeine, but taper it off for a month, like doctors say.
More evil stuff from Byron Katie.

They try to block booze, as the alcoholics will then feel terrible shame as they empty their mini-bar every night. Byron Katie is not stupid.

The long hours are standard LGAT techniques.
They keep everything secret, as KNOWLEDGE and awarenss ruins the persuasion tech.

The group turns against outsiders, as that is part of the social conditioning. You were not imagining that! Anyone who has attended LGAT's with free tickets for research learns that you get SHUNNED within a few days, as they can see you are a reporter, or not buying in. They will shun that person, and if you speak up, they will kick you out.
You know you are enlightened when your questions on the microphone make the seminar guru turn red with rage.

Byron Katie triggers trauma, to make people fall apart, then then need more "help". They then hook them into the BK system for 28 days, which turns into months, and years.
The BK people deliberately psychologically disable people by triggering trauma. Sure, some naive BK quacks think they are helping, but BK knows what is going on.
Its deliberately making people dependant on BK, she likes that power.

BK records everything on video, for many reasons, marketing, client dossiers, to protect herself...Scientology also records all audits, and use that later as "leverage".
Its power.

The "giving" has been explained in the other threads, its about Transference to Katie and profit.
One hopes more people will "give" Katie a ring from a Cracker Jack box, or perhaps a thimble full of "air" as breathing is most valuable.
That is psychological judo.
If a person give an expensive ring, perhaps get some advice on getting it back, and give them 3 days to return it, or tell them you are going to the media. Teach BK a lesson.

IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever [forum.culteducation.com]


The blissed out mental states, are engineered into people by Byron Katie. She manufactures dissociation using her methods, and people can fall apart psychologically. They then become dependent on Byron Katie, and then BK hopes they come from a rich family, or have a large credit line.
Literally. This is not amateur hour, this is reality.

They says its only a BEGINNING, as that it was it is for BK. She wants people for years, and for LIFE. Its all in the Byron Katie text.

BK's so-called methods are the WORST possible thing a person could do for Trauma, PTSD, and alcohol and drug about. The worst.
Byron Katie consciously EXPLOITS those problems people have, and turns it against them, for her own advantage.
That is why self-directed help would be better than anything Byron Katie does.
Of course, licensed, trained professional help is the best, with a pro, who a person has researched carefully, as in looking at their credentials, referrals, complaints board, and things like that.

Your first person account of Byron Katie shows exactly what is going on with Byron Katie, and anyone can see perfectly fits with the detailed explanations of what Byron Katie is doing to people.
Yes, Byron Katie is a fraud, and a clever one, with very advanced skills in group persuasion. She is far more skilled than James Arthur Ray in persuasion and manipulation. [forum.culteducation.com]

When will what Byron Katie is doing to people also hit the news?
With the media, the LGAT seminar Guru literally has to kill numerous people with their own hands on video, before they even look into it.
For example, Colleen Conaway died DURING a James Ray seminar, and no one in the media, or even apparently the authorities, even looked into it properly. [forum.culteducation.com]
Only when numerous people DIED and were seriously hurt during another seminar a month later, did anyone bother to start looking into it, and even then most of the media missed what was really going on.

Thankfully, citizens can now do their own research on Byron Katie. Byron Katie has been explained top to bottom, and one day the TRUTH about Byron Katie will become more widely known. But because what she does is so tricky and complex, it does take some research, learning, and careful reflective thinking.


[main Byron Katie thread] [forum.culteducation.com]

IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 02:09AM by The Anticult.