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Re: New Gurdjieff Group
Posted by: Keir ()
Date: March 12, 2009 06:27AM

gurdjieffian tricksters love to lie and put on disguises and try to pass for something or someone they are not. this is sport for them. and psychological warfare. and 'fleecing the sheep.' they think it is fun and funny. and they honestly believe they are helping the poor inferior not-them people to wake up--seriously!!!!!
Thank you Newone for saying this.

It reminds me alot of the Samel Aun Weor "gnostic" groups that has this similar arogant attitude and uses similar tactics.

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Re: New Gurdjieff Group
Posted by: 2bDellusioned ()
Date: March 13, 2009 12:47PM


Ouspensky said that all thoughts are an “I”. He taught methods to eliminate the “I”, by gradually increasing consciousness. The premises upon which this concept was based is that all thoughts are different. People go through different states of being, and are thus expressing different “Is”. There is no individuality.

This ideology has been perpetuated right even through to the Gnostic Movement. Keir rightly mentioned that the Gnostics are similar (much of the techniques they teach are actually rooted in Gurdjieff and Ouspensky). Of course, not unlike the techniques Gurdjieff and Ouspensky used, the Gnostics also teach ego destruction.

That is a very dangerous thing. I’ll give my explanation. By increasing their “awareness” (being aware of the outside world and the body centers), many gnostic students loose touch with their thoughts. Over the years, the effects of this become degenerative…the constant methods that they practice (they practice them every minute of the day) prevent them from recuperating. The brain can’t restore itself, so they begin to experience a depletion in their sensorial and cognitive faculties.

The tissue in their eyes can’t recuperate, so they loose the ability to see certain things in their visual fields. If you notice (search Mark Pritchard on google…that’s the leader of the Gnostic Movement) his eyes are sometimes very wide. That is because the awareness method is actually stimulating the muscle that lifts the eyelids. Other eye muscles get stimulated as well…

Another thing I should mention, is that the eyes are like cameras. The cord (optic nerve) that connects them to the brain causes a gap in the visual field (blind spot). There is an actual spot (on both eyes) that you can’t see through (because there are no rods and cones there).

Ouspensky taught of the five centers. He didn’t know that there are actual areas (nuclei) for planning and carrying out movements in the brain (body movements). Also, he didn’t know that the spinal cord sends nerves out to the different muscles of the body. Flex your upper arm. If you put your hand there and flex, you will feel the muscles there grow tighter. They shrink because they are stimulated by a (partly electrical) impulse from the spinal cord.

Ironically, the gnostics (which have misunderstood Ouspensky) teach that the “motor center” is in the upper back, when in reality it is the spinal cord (and the brain stem). If you break your spinal cord, you loose movement in the areas of the body that it was connected to, from that point downward. There are people (quadriplegics) who can no longer move their arms and legs because they have damaged their spinal cords.

There are also areas for facilitating movement in mostly the cortical regions of the brain.

I’m not going to respond to this thread again because playing cult leader is not my forte. I’ll just leave by saying that Ouspensky, Gurdjieff and the modern gnostics (so-called) misunderstand human anatomy and physiology. They don’t understand that many of the practices that they do have no real affects (apart from dehumanizing oneself) and they are even harmful (they leave a strain on the brain and body).

Another affect is that they leave one more vulnerable to non-physical entities… (again…my reason for not wanting to play cult leader)…As a matter of fact, I might never post in the actual forums again because of the seriousness of the matter.

Notanantignostic mentioned in a post on the gnostic movement that Mark Pritchard does not accept liability in the case of death or coma. This is because the methods can lead to just that (Ouspensky’s)

Be informed Luthergrunge.

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Re: New Gurdjieff Group
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 13, 2009 11:14PM

With this said, here is a report from the old Google listserve (do a search of the groups and it should still be there).

It is a report from 1998of some very strange things experienced and reported by someone who stated he or she had been doing G work ---via the Gurdjieff Foundation.



Moon Food, posting on Google listserve wrote:
Moon Food View profile
More options Sep 3 1998, 12:00 am

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.4th-way, alt.consciousness, alt.meditation,, talk.religion.newage
From: Moon Food <>
Date: 1998/09/03
Subject: A real experience with the Gurdjieff Work
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I have written the following as a warning regarding involvement in
the Gurdjieff work. Writing and posting it also provides me with
something of a catharsis. The lessons to be drawn from my experience, I think, are generalizable beyond the Gurdjieff work.

I think the chief lesson is this: there is a difference between the spiritual and the psychic, between realizing God within and invoking or manipulating psychic energies.

Of course, my bizarre experiences were unique to me. Despite that
fact, they are still telling and recounting them might be of value to
those interested in the Fourth Way, as well as all spiritual seekers.

Any comments should be posted to the newsgroup.

In the summer of 1997, spurred by a hankering for the spiritual, I
searched the Internet and came across something called the Fourth Way.
I investigated it, found that a well known and respected Gurdjieff
organization had a branch right in my city, and by September, I was
attending their meetings.

Our particular group was a beginners' group. We met once a week.
Each meeting began with a “sitting.” The sitting is a kind of
meditation. It involves scanning, sensing, the body part by part.
Sensing one’s physical body. It lasts for about 30 minutes. At the
meeting, the sitting is guided by the leader. We were expected to sit
at home each morning on our own.

The sitting is followed by a period, lasting about one hour, during
which everyone sits in a circle. This is led by several group leaders,
experienced in "the Work." Students ask questions, and the leaders take
turns answering the questions.

The group also meets on the weekend on Saturday. On these
Saturdays, we would do actual physical work, having at the beginning of
the day received an "assignment," (e.g., directing attention to the
bottom of one's feet). The work period would be followed by a group
meal, and then by a reading from _Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson_.

I was attending meetings and sitting every day beginning in late
September. I followed the advice given during meetings very precisely.
I was very attentive at the meetings. (I'm a pretty good listener, with
a better than average oral memory.)

For instance, during one meeting, we heard a reading from something
written by John Pentland, which described how to "receive an
impression." Now, Gurdjieff teaches that sensory impressions are a kind
of "food" that is transformed in the human body to eventually create an
astral body, then a "mental" body.

I followed these instructions to the letter, and, lo and behold, something very mysterious happened.

When I looked at something in the manner instructed, it would shift and move around, and, eventually, waves of yellowish green light would emanate from the thing and moved toward me.

After a few months of intensely practicing this, unfortunately, my entire field of vision was moving. I felt like a passenger on the good ship Gurdjieff. This took awhile to wear off after I stopped "receiving impressions."

More importantly, we were told that we would eventually receive a
flow of energy beginning at the top of the head, moving down the spine,
coming up the front through the genital area and up the chest and the
face. By November, I began to experience this flow. I was told that
this was *very* early for a beginner; the average length of time for
this to start, I was told, was after about 5 years of practice. I was
thrilled and amazed. My former scientistic atheism was definitely out
the window.

I mentioned this in private to my group leader, and she
encouraged me to share it with the group. She told me that this was a
significant milestone in the work.

In the next few weeks, my "third eye" apparently opened. I had felt
a kind of pressure and slight pain in my forehead. Now there was a
definite sensation of fluid running from my forehead down my nose and
cheeks. Of course, there was no actual fluid to be found. I suspect
that this was also "expected."

But then something bizarre started that was not "supposed" to

By the end of November, invisible hands began caressing me, touching
me. They would touch my back, my head, my face. It was uncanny. I
thought that these were spiritual helpers of some kind. They started to
direct my movements, always gently, lifting me to a standing position,
moving my head to one side or back, etc. When I would go through
periods of receiving the energy (and these periods could last for
several hours, as I sat in my room at the edge of my bed, just trying to
keep my back straight and enduring the often uncomfortable force of the
inflow of energy), the hands often came. Then, they started some kind
of construction project on me. They injected some kind of material
into my forehead (apparently, my “third eye” had opened by now). They
sprinkled and then spread some kind of material on my back and legs.

I told my group leader about being “under construction” but she didn’t
have much to say about it. I don't think she initially understood the
magnitude of what I was experiencing.

Things got more complicated in December.

In addition to the hands, I was visited by what I can only describe as “creatures”. They seemed like a sort of animal. They would glom onto my legs and bite my toes!!

At this point, I figured that all was not well.

These creatures came mostly at night, and especially when I went to bed. I

would feel something like a hot blob, very large, sucking on my leg, and along with that sensation there would be the biting of my toes. I figured that these were some kind of creature from another dimension, feeding off of me. I was strangely accepting of it. It didn’t freak me out that much, because at the time I thought this just went with spiritual advancement – an occupational hazard.

The creatures would also bite the top of my head. And other creatures, which seemed somehow different, would sort of lick my face.

At the end of December, things took a turn for the worse.

The hands, or at least *some* hands, actually began to sexually manipulate me. They were masturbating me. It was absolutely unmistakable. I also felt like some kind of suction apparatus at times was affixed to my penis, and that something like a very thin catheter was being inserted into my penis.

While this was happening, I kind of joked to myself, “Okay, when do I get the rectal probe?” Because this reminded me very
much of what UFO abductees describe.

After this, the hands became more obtrusive and obnoxious.

For instance, when I got on a plane to fly back home after visiting my
family in another state, they poked me in the ass. Stuff like that.
When I would have my periods of energy flow, they would put their arm
around my neck to block the flow, or put a hand under my chin to divert
the flow.

Some other bizarre things occured. One was the fact that the
“entities” created some kind of electrical “plug” on my back that they
would occasionally tap into, creating a kind of buzzing sensation
there. The other thing was that they installed some kind of living
thing, like a huge worm, inside my torso.

This living thing would move around inside of me. Fortunately, I don’t experience either of these phenomena anymore.

After Christmas, I was quite sure that my little friends were not
angels from God.

When I got back home, I told my group leader about
them in great detail. She said that this was all beyond her experience,
and suggested I speak to the leader that came from New York once a

When I talked to him in mid-January, he told me I needed to see
a psychiatrist, and that my experiences had nothing to do with “the

He told me that *I* was somehow turning the energy I was
receiving into these entities, and that I needed to find out how I was
"feeding" these phenomena.

After my conference with the Big Cheese from New York, I went into a
mild panic. I felt very isolated.

I broke off contact with the Gurdjieff organization and stopped “sitting.” My experiences were too real to write off.

And the fact that I had been fine until I started this meditation was just too much of a coincidence.

However, I did see a psychiatrist right away. He told me that I was
the victim of hypnosis, but prescribed anti-psychotic drugs (Risperdal)
for me. A few weeks later, I became so upset at my continued
harrassment by these "entities", and at the collapse of my trust in the
Gurdjieff work, that I had to leave work and go on disability.

I moved back home, in another state. The psychiatrist I saw there told me, after four or five sessions, that he didn't think I was psychotic,
because I didn't evidence any thought disorder or other signs that would
accompany, say, schizophrenia.

This man, though a Moslem (which I'm just guessing, because his name was Mohammed), said to me at our last appointment, "This might sound stupid, but you should consider seeing a Catholic priest for an exorcism."

My third and current psychiatrist told me I have schizoaffective disorder. So much for psychiatry.

I don’t believe that these visitations are the product of psychosis,
but the resulting depression and anxiety have required psychiatric
care. I take my medications, but it’s just to “cover my bets.”

Eventually, by the end of February, I stopped feeling the hands.
But I still feel, almost every night when I go to bed, something walking
around on my bed. (I used to be able to feel both my little friends and
the creatures approaching me when I sat on the bed – I felt the mattress
being pressed down, although I never *saw* it go down.)

Also, the energy stopped flowing by March. However, I still feel a constant movement and pulsing at the top of my head. It simply will not go away. After some research, I realized that this was my "crown chakra."

I need to mention a few stray facts. First, my group leader twice
demonstrated her powers of telekinesis to me, by turning my head to one
side. It felt like a force moving my head (not like hands).

Second, once during a very heavy period of energy flow through my body, I went into a bodily ecstasy: I was swept out of my body, through the top of my head. I kept my eyes closed the whole time, so I don't know what I would have seen had I opened them. However, I experienced the complete loss of the sensation of having a body, plus an experience of existing briefly in a world of lights, some of different colors.

One more thing I should mention. This is the only experience whose
"supernatural" origin I’m unsure about. One afternoon in December,
during the thick of things, I was home and decided to open my blinds to
let the sun in. I usually keep them down.

After awhile, I noticed across the courtyard of my apartment building a man standing there, perfectly straight, and staring directly at me into my apartment across the courtyard. He was in his 30’s, bearded, and wore a poncho (who wears ponchos these days? ? ).

All I can say is, you had to be there. His stare went right through me.

At first I tried to ignore it. Finally, I approached my window. At that point, this gentleman turned to his right like a robot, and robotically walked away. I never saw him before and I haven’t seen him since. I’m not sure what to make of this experience. My current theory is that either he was some kind of possessed person sent to “greet” me, or he was an apparition.

My tentative conclusions about all this is that, as the
spiritualists teach, there are "entities from the lower astral realm"
who like to interfere with people on occasion.

The energy phenomena I was dealing with attracted them. (By the way, things got worse and worse at actual meetings. For instance, while "sitting," I would feel my little friends approach me. Once they put two hands on my head, sort of like the "laying on of hands" done by Christians. Another time, one came up, grabbed my toes, and shook them. Mostly mischievous stuff.)

As I described it to my sister, I felt like a deaf, blind, retarded
person stuck in a classroom full of obnoxious 8th graders. In other
words, the entities were more childish than what I would call "evil."
But they were most definitely annoying.

I've decided that my spiritual path should avoid any kind of work
with "energies."

Happily, I came across non-dual teachings (e.g., Advaita Vedanta, Dzogchen, etc.), and their contemporary exponents, and
these seem to me, at my deepest core, to be true.

Comments are appreciated. I hope I've entertained you, if not
enlightened you. Please reply to the newsgroup.


Ironically, the gnostics (which have misunderstood Ouspensky) teach that the “motor center” is in the upper back, when in reality it is the spinal cord (and the brain stem). If you break your spinal cord, you loose movement in the areas of the body that it was connected to, from that point downward. There are people (quadriplegics) who can no longer move their arms and legs because they have damaged their spinal cords.

There are also areas for facilitating movement in mostly the cortical regions of the brain.

I’m not going to respond to this thread again because playing cult leader is not my forte. I’ll just leave by saying that Ouspensky, Gurdjieff and the modern gnostics (so-called) misunderstand human anatomy and physiology. They don’t understand that many of the practices that they do have no real affects (apart from dehumanizing oneself) and they are even harmful (they leave a strain on the brain and body).

This is very interesting, because Carlos Castaneda, whose teachings have grievously misled and harmed very many people reportedly taught that the 'assemblage point' was between the shoulder blades(!)

By contrast, in most schools of martial arts, dance, and both yoga and Zen meditation, we are taught that to ground ourselves, and get stability, we must shift our attention to our abdomen. I have noticed that in doing this, I settle and get stabilized immediately, but lose this feeling quickly if I move my attention upward too quickly.

When I first read this about the assemblage point, my first thought was, 'This would be guaranteed to destablize anyone who persists in using this as the focus of their attention.


Redeployment of Energy
According to the ancient shamans, human beings are conglomerates of energy fields that appear as luminous spheres or orbs. Adepts at the magical passes, these shamans located the source of man’s transcendent awareness at a point in space an arm’s length from the back shoulder blades, known as the assemblage point. For most people, the assemblage point is closed up or hardened by the internal dialogue of fear and stress, which explains why most people do not experience transcendent awareness. Redeployment of energy through specific exercises can (a) shut down internal dialogue which makes possible (b) inner silence and (c) the fluidity of the assemblage point. The purpose of the Magical Passes is to return man to an “extraordinary fluidity of perception”

(plug this into the exact phrase slot on google and you should get the URL)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2009 11:21PM by corboy.

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Re: New Gurdjieff Group
Posted by: newone ()
Date: March 15, 2009 10:44AM

i also experienced very strange, prolonged and unexplainable energy invasions. (written about here under name starter.) i understand how difficult it is for most people to come to terms/believe such things happen. obviously has to do with awakening kundalini energy. as for the remote operator element, i don't know how it is possible but have experienced. maybe some part of it is kundalini psychosis? maybe it is posession by negative entities. i don't know..

fresh from my similar ordeal, in early 2002, in very bad crisis, i thought to get back in touch with an openminded occult-aware therapist i had had. she was horrified and offered little feedback on what i told her had happened. she did have me lay down to do a healing visualization of some kind. immediately i became more deeply aware of what had vaguely felt like a big, heavy, awful, rusted 'hook,' in my left shoulder--actually the back--deep within the left shoulder blade. i cried as i got VERY in touch with it's presence in my back. my sense of it at that time was that it was so heavy, so metallic (metaphorically) and mean-spirited/controlling, i would never get it out. it represented l.g's control over me. the sense of the hook increased my sense that i was 'marked'. like i had a chip in me, a tracking device that would always tell them where i was, and land me back with them. even after death. and i know how hysterical this sounds.

i descended into depths of depression and ptsd breaks for a long time...i didn't continue with that therapist, for better or worse. i didn't trust anyone for years, even enough to tell the story which no one really believed anyway.

later. as recovery progressed, i saw a cranial sacral practitioner and asked her about 'the hook' without telling her the back story. in a session with her she 'removed' the hook, i sobbed and sweat as she 'got it out.' the energy in the session was HEAVY and dark, like the hook. i felt great after! a few months later i felt it again, but diminished somewhat. i saw the cranio-sacral healer again. again, she didn't ask or speak about the origin of the hook. she clearly felt it both times and worked with it with amazing sense-intelligence.. she told me it was gone and i must remember to 'wave my freedom flag'--she had me raise my left arm and circulated the arm in a slow circle 8, which opened deep into the shoulder socket. she did this in both sessions, for what seemed like a long time each time.

this is all very strange to tell. the correlation with castaneda's assemblage point information was never lost on me. something l.g. had talked a lot about. my sense is he 'put' the hook there. it didn't come in any other way. maybe i am mistaken. maybe it was an energy blockage, born within myself out of shame and fear? but my feeling-sense is still that it was put there.

this may seem off topic but i want to tell an episode i had with lg in his garden. i had begun working with the gurdjieff foundation, with a woman within the foundation who i liked very much. l.g. disapproved.

he began telling me about a woman who was sneaking into his garden at night and stealing his roses. he seemed irrationally upset about it. over several different visits to him he brought up his rose thief. a pretty zen dude, i didn't understand his lack of composure on this issue. i began to wonder if he was making it/her up? some theater for some teaching purpose. he would show me where she had cut at the bush, showing me where the roses had been cut from. i really didn't care. finally he told me he didn't mind that the 'sad and lonely old lady' was stealing a rose here and there.' what infuriated him was that his rose bush was being PRUNED in a way different from the way he wanted the plant to be pruned! and this would affect entirely the way the plant would grow.

i feel, in retrospect that this was a teaching metaphor to express his disapproval of my work with the woman at the gurdjieff foundation. of course, i don't know for sure. i did stop my involvement with the woman and the gurdjieff foundation, because lg was extending more offers to work with him 1-on-1 and it was clear a choice was required. soon after that, a few months later, the psychic rape sessions began.

i always think of that pruning story in relation to the hook in my back. and the irrational sense i have that he PUT something there that would effect the way i would grow--or not grow, over a long period of time.

this may seem crazy, just add it to the brew of info and see what you get..and btw, my sense of the hook in the shoulder is almost 100 percent gone. it's taken 6 years.

is anyone watching dollhouse, the new joss whedon series? in last night's episode, they put a camera in the mind-controlled persons brain. the camera used the eyes as a lens, which rendered the person blind. the camera then transmitted what the eyes were seeing, to a computer, in real time. the remote-controllers watched everything on their computer monitors. was reminded of this by the above post on brain stuff and sight.

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Re: New Gurdjieff Group
Posted by: cochineal ()
Date: June 07, 2012 03:58AM

I am currently looking for an attorney to help in a cult related matter concerning Sharon Gans.
Is anybody aware of any attorneys that would help in a lawsuit involving a cult?
Thanks in advance for your help.

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