Those nipping at cryonics always stop after a while. Either they get tired of it or they die.

Could this be construed as a death threat against Larry Johnson from Mr. Ettinger?

[www.network54.com]

bottom lline
July 14 2010 at 11:56 AM Robert Ettinger Veteran Member


Response to The Nurse (For Mr. Ettinger)

________________________________________
What's left is mostly contradiction and confusion, the only clarity being Johnson's deliberately throwing mud for profit.

I haven't heard the alleged tapes, but would be very surprised if the identities of the speakers were clear and the context not in doubt. What is clear is that Johnson accepts the worst gossip, with the worst interpreation, to make money, and Melody goes along.

"Euthanasia" could be, and is, argued ad nauseam, but if--I don't buy it, but if--someone at Alcor shortened a patient's life in order to improve his cryopreservation and possibly end his suffering, to call that "murder" is just preposterous. In hospice situations, thousands of times a year, narcotics are used to trade time for comfort.

Police detectives investigated the incident and found nothing worthy of pursuit. Johnson saw dollars worthy of pursuit, and Melody assists him.

Those nipping at cryonics always stop after a while. Either they get tired of it or they die.
Robert Ettinger

Melody Maxim slams he Alcorian cult.

[cryomedical.blogspot.com]


Friday, August 27, 2010

Interesting Events on Cold Filter Cryonics Forum

There were some very interesting reactions to my recent post on the Cold Filter forum, regarding Alcor's membership dues. I pondered why anyone should pay membership dues, to Alcor, given that they are known to provide "last minute" services, to people who have never signed up for Alcor's services, much less paid membership dues. For example, they provided services to legendary baseball hero, Ted Williams, at the time of his death, at the request of his son, though Ted Williams had never filled out Alcor's paperwork, or paid membership dues. This is just one of many examples in which Alcor has provided services to people who have never paid membership dues. I know of at least one recent cryopreservation they performed, free of charge, and I suspect there are many others. It's my opinion that they do these cases for the sake of publicity, and I consider such cases to be a "slap in the face," to the dues-paying Alcor members, who have diligently filled out their paperwork, and have their insurance in place. (See my previous blog entry, on this topic.)


First, "FD" responded to my post, alluding to the inherent dangers of blogging. (He seems to think I'm too stupid, to have considered possible repercussions.) When I responded that he should let the people I write about make their own threats, he responded with an even more detailed expression of "concern," asking if I have media-publishing insurance, and followed that up with pondering whether a judgment would be limited to the amount of my coverage, or if would get my insurance "PLUS all (my) life savings." (Either FD really IS threatening me, or he really DOES think I'm stupid.) He goes on to mention my blog index, as though I don't know it's there.


Then Mathew Sullivan, of Suspended Animation, seemed to be praying to the gods, (okay, so they're only "the powers that be," in an extremely small population), in a really weird post, for someone to take action against me, for what I wrote. If Mathew knew what I thought about that, maybe he wouldn't pray so hard.


Are Mathew and FD so arrogant, they believe no one else on the forum will realize they were not really giving me "friendly" advice? Surely, no one who has been reading my CF posts and my blog entries, for the last three-and-a-half years, thinks I am too stupid to realize I am responsible for my own words. I've even stated, on numerous occasions, (which I am sure FD and Mathew are aware of), that I am willing to stand behind my opinions, in any court in this land. How much more clear could I make it for them? Did either of them really think anyone was going to fall for that "we were just trying to help her with some friendly advice, and the moderator fussed at us, boo-hoo, wah, wah, wah" routine? If they thought that was going to happen, I'm going to have to question their intelligence.


The most interesting part of the discussion was when the moderator stepped in and indicated people had been threatening to sue him, if he did not "delete certain posts," which I can only assume to be mine, since I haven't threatened any such action against him, (at least, not recently). Now that we see Platt's post, we can only assume Mr. Platt was the person making threats against the moderator. Why are Platt, Sullivan and FD, making threats, in response to a post I made about Alcor? None of them work at Alcor, as far as I know, (though the anonymous FD might work there, I suppose), and none of them were mentioned in the post they are reacting, so strongly, to. Isn't Alcor capable of speaking for their own organization, and doesn't Alcor have plenty of attorneys, working on their behalf?


FD, Sullivan, Platt, et. al. are just trying to intimidate the CF moderator, and me, and it's just plain silly. Why should we take such warnings from those three individuals, seriously? One of them has a very long history of people accusing him of being less than honest, and one of them is anonymous. If Alcor, or anyone else, was going to sue the CF moderator, or me, I'm sure we would be receiving letters from attorneys, not "friendly advice," on Cold Filter.


I don't know about the CF moderator, but the minute I get any sort of legal notice, I am going to immediately "lawyer up," call the media, and file whatever counter-suits might be available to me. If any of my CF posts, or blog entries, (all of which I consider to be "free speech," and none which I consider to be legally "actionable"), are removed from the Internet, I will add "call the ACLU" to my list.


I'm wondering if people think my forum posts and blog entries have not been backed up and made ready to publish elsewhere, when they ask the CF moderator to remove them. Also, have they considered the possibility of others archiving my posts? I know, for a fact, that someone was archiving my every word, at least up until less than a year ago, and not at my request, (and it wasn't Johnson). I don't know, or care, if they are still doing so.


I believe there's a very long history, in cryonics, of people attempting to prevent the airing of "dirty laundry," with scare tactics, which are very transparent and tiresome. If someone wants to sue me, have your lawyer call my lawyer. In the meantime, your empty threats and attempts to quash my free speech only encourage me.

I have started a skeptical website exposing the percieved scams in the cryonic industry - in the making right here: [www.cryonicsfactsheet.co.uk]

BTW - i am just someone who unintentionally promoted this and wants to make it right - I have used some info from this forum but i am aware i need to know more - my dream is to have a factual website and prehaps offer advice to people who feel they are falling for this scam.

any more info greatly appreciated - PM Me if you want your research on my website

Richie KGB

I am attempting to build a skeptical website exposing the scams in the making right here: [www.cryonicsfactsheet.co.uk]

BTW - i am just someone who unintentionally promoted this and wants to make it right - I have used some info from this forum

any more info greatly appreciated - PM Me if you want your research on my website

Richie KGB

Richie KGB,

Looks like you made an error on your website. Under Ted Williams the book is call FROZEN not Shiver. See: [www.google.com]

Also, for a wealth of other information go to: [www.frozenbook.com]

Nims

ty

updated

Cryonics UK is simply a flagrant scam.
Its important for those in the UK to understand what a scam is being perpetrated.
All they do is collect money, and then say they are going to put the corpse on ice, and ship it overseas!
Countless issues immediately arise, but in fact its just a way to collect money from people. They use the same model, trying to get monthly payments out of people, for life, for nothing.
And of course to upsell credulous people with other shams.
____________________
[sites.google.com]
The necessary contributions are currently as follows:
Monthly subscription if you wish to attend training sessions: £15
Monthly subscription if you do not wish to attend training sessions: £20
Monthly subscription for a household if at least one member of the household attends training sessions: £25
Monthly subscription for a household if no members of that household attend training sessions: £30
_______________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 01:39AM by The Anticult.

Yup Agreed

I stupidly promoted a talk (not directly) by thier organiser David Styles through another website. I felt so silly afterwards but thats what you get for being to accomaoating with fanatics...

Thing is the way they (Cryonics) are set up its like a self help group and people really are misguided enough to give them money , UK law kind of protects them and they can carry on with thier "business". I was interested in the claims for charity and the fact they have named it so importantly: HORPT - Human Organ Preservation Research Trust why nopt name it Cryonics UK - smells of misdirection to me! :)

The organiser is quite charasmatic and is using links with his transhumansim interests to legitimise themselves with the S+/H+ Crew.
He is even jetting off to TransVision 2010 to promote his "european standby service" - see here http://transvision2010.wordpress.com...


He is basically self appointed himself as Cryonics Expert of the UK and has also been giving all sorts of funny little presentations selling his company to Futurists and Transhumanists. His Qualifications - working for the company his degree is in linguistics and he was a dissatisfied care worker before getting on the cryo-scam.
Thing is to the best of my knowledge they (Cryonics UK) have never attempted anything yet and are completely inexperienced with handling cadavers -Prehaps the Funeral Unions of the UK would be interested in how they have been regulated ect ect...

P.S. Thanks for your interest Anticult - hope you don;t mind a little of my plaguerising of your investigations on this forum.

Wow, this guy would fit right in with the crooked cryonics salesmen in the US.

Human Organ Preservation Research Trust

That is classic. They are taking those manipulative words, and trying to make themselves seem like they are some kind of medical research "trust".
Of course, a "Trust" is supposed to be an administered fund, but they also use the word "trust" in their marketing for psychological reasons.
Here is the irony...
There is NO...
Human Organ Preservation
Human Organ Research
Human Organ Trust

They just pulled those words out of their butts. That is the same type of Cryonics Newspeak being used by the cryonics salesmen in the US.
They aren't doing anything else than trying to lure people into paying them $50 a month to start. That is the door-crasher. Then they upsell the hell out of you, as you are now on the Cryonics Sucker-list.
Then they invite you to cryonics seminars, where they can Qualify the Customer.
Then they try to sign you up for one of those cryonics "contracts", based on "insurance".
Then they try to upsell you into signing over power-of-attorney, large cash "trusts", and all of the other scams listed in this thread.
Their goal is to get people to sign-over their entire Estate to the cryonics company, and once you dead, they have all your money, and can do anything they want with it.

Meanwhile, putting the body "on ice" and then "shipping it overseas", is beyond an outrage, even if a person believed in any kind of "cryonics".

And which UK insurance company is going to payout, with all the complications with moving a body overseas, and family members, estates, wills, etc?

There is no question this guy is hooked in with the crooked cryonics salesmen from the US, he is using the identical tactics.

Would not be surprising to find out the UK cryonics game is hooked in with the Venturists, as well as the fringe people in Transhumanism.
As shown in this thread, they believe they can make millions and even BILLIONS with only a tiny percent of the funeral market.

Even better for Cryonics UK, they don't have to fuss with the bodies, just try to get as much cash up front as possible.
The UK situation just reaks of an outright scam.
Some UK media could expose what is going on there.


Ah, there it is. Ben Best is hooked into the UK as well. Its the identical language patterns being used.
Notice its "free of charge", which means its about getting as many "suckers" into the tent as possible, and then starting the upselling process, using the endless sales tricks used in cryonics.
_____________________


[www.cryonics-uk.com]
Details for the next meeting, Saturday the 24th and Sunday the 25th of July 2010
Attendance is free of charge.

The meeting will be hosted at the home of Tim Gibson, whose address is:

### Greenfield Drive
Greenhill
Sheffield
S. Yorkshire
S8 7SL

Cryonics Institute President Ben Best will be in attendance, and will give training with regards to VM-1 protocol (ie, the best use of CI's vitrification solution).
Details for the next meeting, Saturday the 24th and Sunday the 25th of July 2010
______________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 08:26AM by The Anticult.

They see the UK as a good base to make new cryonics sales.

This UK article also smells of the planted PR stories you can get by hiring a PR flack, who then submits the "story" to a paper, which places it, and it functions as an embedded advertisment for the products being discussed.



Please freeze me! How scores of middle-class British couples are hoping to buy immortality for just £10 a week
[www.dailymail.co.uk]