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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: Emma C ()
Date: October 06, 2008 12:03AM

The NKT are very cult-like, and I would advise you to steer well clear of them. As a former member of another cult that claims to be Buddhist (namely Ole Nydahl's Diamond Way group), I have experience and can sniff out dodgy Sanghas.

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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: pema ()
Date: October 16, 2008 11:53PM

Hi Emma, What do your nostrils tell you about Rigpa and its pungent figurehead Sogyal Laker? Perhaps best to reply on that thread rather than this one.

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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Date: October 17, 2008 02:21AM

An account of problems at a UK NKT centre by a survivor here:


A critique of NKT's web tactics to silence critics (which includes posting psychiatric biographies of its detractors) here:
(check the essay section for a critique of the overhwhelm and threaten with lawsuit tactics of NKT)

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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 17, 2008 03:15AM

Thank you, interestingnote.

Also, just to keep things clear, this discussion thread has to do with NKT, NOT with other troubled groups, such as Sogyals.

Likewise, the Ole thread has to do with discussions of the Diamond way, not with Sogyal.

It does not mean that Leader A's problems with money sex and power are less important and matter less than Leader B's misuse of money sex and power, merely because Leader B has accumulated more money and has become a multimillionaire whilst Leader A has less money than B.

If we could speak up earlier about misuse of power, that is the best way to prevent irresponsible leaders from becoming multimillionaires in the first place.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2008 03:24AM by corboy.

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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: Tenzin Peljor ()
Date: October 17, 2008 03:32AM

Dear WisdomFire, Jimmy and Atisha’s Cook.
It is fine that you defend your tradition, the NKT.

However, it is plain wrong that

1. the New Kadampa Survivors are a “hate group”
2. do not allow positive statements about NKT
3. that David and I wish to destroy NKT

The Forum is very moderate and liberal. But as it was/is monitored and undermined by actual members who attacked forum members and the moderators or try to use the NKT ‘brainwashing methods’ to tell people it is all their own fault, restrictions had to been made to protect the members from being abused or ‘brainwashed’ again even after they left NKT. Leaving a ‘cult’ is a very sensitive state, the propaganda NKT spread in the forum wasn’t helpful.

The forum members are very different. Some have to express their disappointment with NKT or release their suppressed feelings, some try to keep a different approach, however, it is wrong to claim only negative statements could be made or were made. There are positive and many balanced statements, there are reminders for keeping a respectful speech etc.

In defending NKT you and the NKT websites you list use the method to put down and slander your critics, I wonder what you will accomplish with that method?

After leaving a cult most people are also very sensitive to be drawn into another direction or to be manipulated to follow this or that, therefore much restrain is there to help people to follow other traditions or spiritual paths. The situation is mainly to offer a place to speak out what people experienced and to recognize that other had the same or similar experiences and then to try to support members to understand the situation:

- how NKT is functioning
- what are the driving forces and patterns in NKT
- what signs approve NKT to be a "cult"
- what are the driving forces in oneself
- what are the own faults which led to being caught into that devastating situation

Then there is a lot of personal advice because people are very different and have very different situations.

Instead of attacking the forum and its members or the owner it would be better for NKT to ask what led members since NKT’s inception to label it repeatedly as a cult. There is no Dalai Lama or FPMT behind it, as NKT wrongly claims, it is coming from ex-member’s own experiences and judgement.

As long as NKT oppresses the own history, and oppresses and undermines open discussion about what happened wrongly in NKT and keeps up the approach to blame others and victimize itself, not any new Internal Rules will make any change.

All corrections start by seeing the own faults and allowing open discussion on it. Such a process is since NKT’s inception undermined by NKT leadership actively. NKT is a dishonest and very narrow minded organisation. When this attitude changes then there is hope for a positive change.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso can ask himself: What made I wrong, that we have such a situation?
And the members can learn to be open for their own intuition and feelings instead of repressing them. Also learning from their critics and what they say is not a bad approach, isn't it?

Keep your chins up, Tenzin

PS: The NKS Forum can be portrayed differently - of course the above is just my perspective and any perspective is just one perspective. However why I corrected you three NKT members is that you unfairly put down what for other people is a help, a help they need and they didn't find within NKT. I think, the NK Survivor Forum does the work of what NKT had missed to do. It is NKT tactic to put down critics and former members as "disgruntled" somewhat mental unstable or to portray them as hostile, aggressive or what ever is suited to put them down.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2008 04:01AM by Tenzin Peljor.

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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 17, 2008 03:50AM


Emma was never part of Sogyal's group at all, why are you bringing this up?

What is your purpose?

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Posted by: Tenzin Peljor ()
Date: October 17, 2008 04:32AM

Dear Judy,

There are a great number of smears (lies) all over the internet about GKG and the NKT. These smears started to appear on the internet 10 years ago when GKG organized protests against the Dalai Lama's ban on the Buddhist Deity Dorje Shugden. Refutations to these smears can now be found on this site:

WisdomFire, I wonder how a smear site can fight smears and spread truths?

The site you list includes plenitude of wrong statements, like HHDL or FPMT would be "behind the lies" or what it states wrongly about some of NKT's critics.

A powerful example what can happen with someone entering NKT are these two reports by former members. There are more in NKS but only these are publicly available as far as I know:


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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: Jimmy ()
Date: October 17, 2008 08:07AM

Dear RR moderator and all,

I'm pretty sure this won't be posted as my last message was not and I've heard since that 2 other people have not had their messages posted, so clearly this is not a place where we are supposed to stand up for ourselves. (Maybe this is unrelated, but I have had to change my password each time I've tried to enter this forum also.)

Is it not ironic, however, that Corboy and Tenzin Peljor are at liberty to write as many very long messages as they choose? Is this supposed to be a nice and safe environment for them, knowing that they will not have to deal with any replies? Maybe that is the purpose of this forum. I honestly don't know.

Meanwhile, I have been on the survivors chat group and I have not found even one positive comment about the NKT. At least this Rick Ross forum has allowed 3 of us to post a few messages beforehand when the thread first started, even if no more were allowed through.

It seems on this forum that we are damned if we defend ourselves and damned if we don't. Three NKT members go onto the board to put a more positive point of view and suddenly "the board is flooded with NKT people trying to force their point of view"? Isn't this a tad close-minded and paranoid? Do you simply expect us to roll over, play dead and say "okay, you're right, we're a cult"? You seem to feel a cult would defend itself, so we are labelled a cult if we defend ourself and we don't!

So all I will say (not that this will be posted) is please look at to at least see that there is another point of view out there about the NKT. It is shared by hundreds of thousands of people.

You seem very sensitive here and so whatever we do will probably be misconstrued. Sorry for that, and goodbye.


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Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition)
Posted by: Atisha's cook ()
Date: October 17, 2008 05:07PM

i'd say, to anyone interested in finding out more about NKT, good or bad: please rely on your own experience.

by that i mean please don't take my word for it that NKT has a lot of good to offer, and please don't take Tenzin Peljor's word for it that NKT is a cult.

i'd suggest making your own mind up: take care and stay critical, but keep an open mind; ask a lot of questions; judge the tradition by its practitioners.

i'd suggest that the internet, while a valuable resource, can never give you the full picture, and that there's no substitute for visiting a few centres and observing the people and practices you find there.

the kind of folk who spend a lot of time on the internet aren't always the best people to offer balanced opinions! that means people like me, as well as Tenzin Peljor: Tenzin with all his different "cautionary" websites, and me, who spends far too much time on forums trying to redress the balance! we should probably both get out more.

Buddha said that you should always check very carefully any teacher or teachings, as if checking gold before buying it. i believe that any genuine, non-cultish, religious tradition shouldn't be afraid of your questions and doubts.

i think you're quite right to be cautious, but please don't be put off NKT - check it out for yourself.

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Posted by: pema ()
Date: October 17, 2008 06:17PM

Dear RR Moderator,
Nothing sinister -- just a joke in one sense -- she mentioned being able to *smell* abusive groups. In another a gesture towards getting the Sogyal thread moving.

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