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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 13, 2010 10:07PM

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cult like behaviour has emerged despite the good intentions of those in control.

What it boils down to IMO is that if someone has sought leadnership and is then in the leadership role for too long and without and without restraints and corrective community processes, this has a corrupting influence, and no belief system however excellent in itself, is enough to compensate.

Some time back a local newspaper wrote how many leaders of non profits are tempted to and often make the grave error of filling the board of directors with hand picked members who are friends and who are willing to rubber stamp and approve of whatever the CEO wants.

The person who wrote the article said that it should be part of written bylaws that boards of directors should elected or selected by community vote, not be an inbred group hand picked by the CEO just to keep him or her validated and cozy.

This was written about non profit good cause groups but it applies equally well to sanghas.

And if you want US dollars or Euros or British Pounds, you'd better accept the democratic process that goes with those dollars.

I fail to see anything Dharma about a process that trains citizens of participatory democracy to think and act like feudal peasants in relation to the leader while handing over money and property gained from their lives working for wage in a democracy.

Too often these ashrams and dharma centers train us to become peasants, reversing the difficult process by which our ancestors made the difficult and anguished transition from peasantry to citizenship.

To throw that all away and revert to serfdom, in a society where one has the opportunity to live and function as a citizen, with the agency available to a citizen is a tragedy.

Too many lamas want us to preserve agency only when it comes to working for them and earning money in society to give to them--but want us to be as submissive peasants in relation to the power structures that the lamas use against us with such sophistication.

Bleh

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[forum.culteducation.com]

Gaining power puts the powerholder at increased risk of misdoing.
Let us look at the Stanford Cookie Experiment.

I first learned of this experiment from reading a book, written by Robert I Sutton, a professor of management and engineering at Stanford University, entitled The No Asshole Rule:Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't.

let us look at Professor Deborah Gruenfeld's experiment--what I term the Stanford Cookie Experiment. I believe that scholars of cults and dysfunctional organizatins need to place this experiment alongside Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment and Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment.

This experiement demonstrates how a leadership role, randomly assigned, has a tendency to trigger swinish bad manners in otherwise normal persons.

The way the experiment worked (and it was replicated a number of times)
subjects were assembled into a group to do a shared task.

*At random, one subject in each group was assigned the role of overseeing and evaluating the others' work--randomly assigned to a leadership role.

During the experiment, a plate of cookies/biscuits was brought in.

Time and again, those subjects randomly assigned to the leadership role, tended
to do the following:

Took more cookies (greed)
Chewed with mouths open (lapses of ordinary good manners)
Got crumbs on their faces and left crumbs on the table (messes for others to clean up)

Thus, random assignment to a brief, time limited leadership role had a potent effect--increasing the probability that the promoted subject's manners would deteriorate.

Now...these were persons who had not sought the leadership role. By contrast, the persons who interest us are those who are driven to desire power, desire fame, spend years seeking ways to market themselves, hone their persuasive skills, and once they become leaders of personality centered groups, are waited on, insulated from consequences, and have enablers making excuses for them.

Imagine the Cookie Experiment going on for ten years or more, and with someone who sought the leadership role, rather than being randomly assigned to that role, and for just an hour or two.

That matchs the life trajectory of many gurus and human potential leaders.

The experiment was done by Professor Deborah Gruenfeld of Stanford University--her
speciality has been researching the effects of putting people in positions of power where they lord it over others.

[www.google.com]
Folks like to believe that a particular belief system or being endorsed by the Karmapa will innoculate against this but it will not.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: October 13, 2010 11:21PM

- In regard to decision making - it would depend upon what decisions are being made - each centre has a degree of independence and the identities of the centres can vary greatly, somewhat like a franchise (hence the MacDonalds comparison), and as we have seen in SteveLpool and Tony Dublin's descriptions, the centre leaders do have a degree of power and as is the nature of such power there is potential for abuse.


My view of the interaction between Nydahl and his followers could be seen as comparable to the interaction between a pop star and their fans; some fans remain calm, respectful, and admiring, others become excitable and want to be groupies, while others remain sceptical. I would find it difficult to hold the pop star responsible for the behaviour of the fans, even were they to "take advantage" of the apparent power differential.

Personally, I would think it of greater benefit to promote the spread of information which would allow anyone to make an informed decision about DWB, rather than promote a "witch hunt" and point the finger of blame at one person, thereby disempowering the rest by labelling them as victims.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: October 14, 2010 03:52AM

'Personally, I would think it of greater benefit to promote the spread of information which would allow anyone to make an informed decision about DWB, rather than promote a "witch hunt" and point the finger of blame at one person, thereby disempowering the rest by labelling them as victims.'

Except that in this case, that of Diamond Way, there is only one person who has set up, directed and controlled the structure of the organisation from the beginning.

Any disempowerment is being perpetrated by that person, not by commenters on the reality of the structure. Commenters who, incidently, have yet to mention the word 'victim' or promote a witch hunt. Commenting, however critically, on an ongoing reality is very far from promoting a witch hunt.

A belief system that cannot accommodate comment, let alone criticism, is very shaky indeed.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: October 14, 2010 04:22AM

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Stoic
Except that in this case, that of Diamond Way, there is only one person who has set up, directed and controlled the structure of the organisation from the beginning.

Any disempowerment is being perpetrated by that person...

From my experience of DWB members, the problem would appear to be precisely the way in which the members are empowered - the whole idea of this threat from Islam, and the notion of the role of protector would serve to justify an impassioned and aggressive sectarianism in the name of Buddhism.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: October 14, 2010 04:30AM

suenam,

There is nothing more disempowering to the followers than a leader who dupes and manipulates them--in the guise of some higher spirituality--and leads them into ignorance and an indulgence of their basest impulses.

Good religion of whatever denomination attempts to lead mankind into some self-control over those base instincts, not give them a solid excuse to behave at their worst.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 04:32AM by Stoic.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: October 14, 2010 10:10AM

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Stoic
suenam,

There is nothing more disempowering to the followers than a leader who dupes and manipulates them--in the guise of some higher spirituality--and leads them into ignorance and an indulgence of their basest impulses.

Good religion of whatever denomination attempts to lead mankind into some self-control over those base instincts, not give them a solid excuse to behave at their worst.

While personal philosophies, opinions, and value-judgments may be important, the focus of this thread is "Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism", and as I and several others have written previously, it would appear that Ole Nydahl fully buys into his project, possibly a less cynical view, yet making the whole thing no less dangerous.

The mission statement of DWB was laid out in the presentation of the new Europe Center -
"Diamond Way Buddhism is built on an international network of friendship and idealism. We master the greatest challenges, because we: - all work together for the benefit of all beings; - make the best out of every situation, flexibly; - bear our responsibility, free from hierarchies."

Firstly, Ole freely admits that DWB is a meritocracy, which in itself is hierarchical, so this would suggest some idealogical confusion even at this basic level. Meritocracies have also been criticized as being myths which merely serve to justify the status quo - merit can always be defined as whatever results in success. Thus whoever is successful can be portrayed as deserving, rather than success being in fact predicated on rational, predetermined criteria of merit.

Secondly, the claim that they "all work together for the benefit of all beings" would seem to contradict the sectarian nature of DWB. This has been covered in detail in this thread - it is not only the anti-Islamic aspect involved here, but the promotion of a single lineage of Buddhism which holds itself above other traditions.

Thirdly, there seems to be a confusion between philosophical idealism - the idea that the ultimate nature of reality is based on the mind, and the idealistic identity which focuses not on what is, but on what could be or what ought to be.

I think that these confusions demonstrate both the seductive nature of DWB, and the points at which the enterprise takes a wrong turn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 10:11AM by suenam.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: October 14, 2010 02:42PM

'I think that these confusions demonstrate both the seductive nature of DWB, and the points at which the enterprise takes a wrong turn.'

I think that these confusions do not appear like wraiths out of the ether, but demonstrate the extent to which Nydahl is deliberately bullsh*tting his followers for his own aggrandisment.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: October 14, 2010 03:18PM

I further think that what Nydahl is fully buying into is not Buddhism but his own personal aggrandisement by any means possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 03:19PM by Stoic.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: October 15, 2010 01:11AM

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Stoic
I further think that what Nydahl is fully buying into is not Buddhism but his own personal aggrandisement by any means possible.
As I wrote before, I have noticed one telling indicator of DWB involvement seems to be the 8 worldly concerns, not only attachment and aversion in regard to fame, but also concerning material wealth, sensory pleasures, and praise/criticism.

It would seem that anyone involved with the group would find themselves sucked in to rationalizing and justifying this way of thinking, which on the surface seems quite “normal” behaviour these days, but which would seem to become particularly hard to detach oneself from when incorporated into a “spiritual” outlook.

Not only are there these worldly attachments/aversions, but they also seem to trigger an even more intense anger and territorial fighting spirit from DWB members who seriously believe themselves to be acting in the name of “Buddhism”.

This is a result of the confusion between the worldy and enlightened aspects of the DWB ethos.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 01:14AM by suenam.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: October 15, 2010 04:50AM

Given that the point of consulting a teacher is to help the student clear away confusion, not increase the confusion, Nydahl doesn'r seem to have much to recommend him in that department, does he?

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