Current Page: 4 of 179
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: davidlondon ()
Date: August 16, 2008 05:27AM

These "secret" documents: “16th Karmapa Meditation”, “Black Coat” and “Refuge and the Enlightened Attitude” are in fact, as Pema describes “bog standard” practice texts (although I doubt the Sixteenth (1924-1981) Eighth (1507-1554) and Ninth (1555-1603) Karmapas respectively would have described them as such) :)

By the way, there is nothing secret about them - they are in fact basic practices available in all Diamond Way Buddhist centres of the Karma Kagyu Lineage and have never, at any time, been classified, confidential, censored or otherwise withheld from the public. All schools of Tibetan Buddhism contain similar practices such as Ngondro or “Foundational Practices” (to which “Refuge and the Enlightened Attitude” belongs), guru yoga (e.g. the 16th Karmapa Meditation) and protector practices (e.g. Black Coat – which is an English Translation of the Tibetan “Ber Nak” - full name Dorje Bernakchen, or “the Great Vajra-Black-Coated One”, the main protector of the Karma Kagyu school).

[...]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2008 07:54PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: krampapa ()
Date: August 16, 2008 01:43PM

Quote
Emma C
Books the cult doesn't want you to see:

[secure.wikileaks.org]

These are kept secret until a member is sufficiently brainwashed.

Hi Emma C, these 'secret books' are on display in most, if not all Diamond Way centres. The Guru Yoga on the 16th Karmapa is freely available to anyone in the world as it is contained in the book 'The Way Things Are' (ISBN 0931892384).

The Black Coat Mahakala text is sung at every meditation session held.

The original text that Refuge and the Englightened Attitude was taken from is referenced at the back (Great Treatise of the Instructions of the Great Seal - The Innate Union) and anyone, obviously, is free to look at this themselves.

It's also worth mentioning that formerly 'secrect' meditation texts have been available to download for free on the internet. The reason they are no longer available is so people do not practice in isolation without sangha etc...

Not much of a scoop after all, back to the Mystery Machine :-)

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: pema ()
Date: August 16, 2008 05:37PM

Hi Corboy,
Lets be clear about this:
Emptiness is a Vajrayana term, not Dzogchen.
Rigpa is the "state of primordial awarness" that Dzogchen practitioners aspire to. It corresponds closely with vipassana.
Dzogchen is trendy these days, but rarely transmitted in a genuine context. Sogyal Lakar advertises himself as a Dzogchen teacher, whilst his actual teachings are graduated and largely Sutra based. He uses Dzogchen as a magnet to attract paying customers. Carrot and donkey technique -- he promises, but never delivers. On the other hand, Choegyal Namkhai Norbu is a realised Dzogchen master who teaches it authentically.
Ma salaama,
Pema

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 16, 2008 07:56PM

davidlondon:

Please stop the snide remarks and flaming.

It is against the rules.

Also, you have offered no objective proof regarding your claims about "Emma."

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: krampapa ()
Date: August 16, 2008 08:57PM

Quote
rrmoderator
davidlondon:

Please stop the snide remarks and flaming.

It is against the rules.

Also, you have offered no objective proof regarding your claims about "Emma."

I think posting freely available texts on Wikileaks as 'secret' texts for brain washed cult members could do with some objective proof also ;-)

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 16, 2008 10:23PM

Thanks for the clarifying info, Pema.

For clarification, Mr Ross is the moderator, I am not currently a moderator, just a member of the message board community.

If anyone wants to discuss technical points in Buddha Dharma
there is a fine message board called e-sangha

[www.lioncity.net]

One must register and once one has done so, there may be information about groups one has been concerned about.

However the persons who moderate each section of the e-sangha discussion board are practitioners and expect visitors and correspondants to be:

1) Well informed.

2) If not well informed, to at least be courteous.

3) To be courteous even if well informed.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: pema ()
Date: August 16, 2008 11:25PM

Hi again Corboy,
I must take issue with you about esangha. Probably there are many aspects of this board which are beyond reproach. However recently some people posting there have been conducting a vicious witch hunt against my respected friend and vajra brother Nkagpa Chogyam, otherwise known as Nkagchang Rinpoche. He and his wife Dechen are the "lineage holders" of Aro Buddhism, which is recognised by several high ranking Nyingma lamas including Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Tarchin Rinpoche. I have to admit that Chogyam's presentation is somewhat unorthodox. But his teachings are 100% traditional Nyingma. In addition, not a breath of sexual or financial scandal has ever been attached to the Aro sangha. They are mostly monogamous couples. Many have children. Chogyam and Dechen are two of the kindest people I have ever encountered. The level of sheer malice that has been directed against them on e-sangha makes my eyes water. It is clear that it is being done with the connivance of the moderator/s involved. It is as far removed from dharmic behaviour as its possible to get.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 16, 2008 11:49PM

For clarification E-Sangha by its terms of use does NOT permit discussion or links to the following groups:

Quote

"Members may not post, attach, use or send any posts, Personal Messages, links, images or files that promote a religion, belief, faith or doctrine other than "Buddhism." Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.

3) These few "Buddhist" schools of thoughts are not recognized by E-sangha. No links to their websites, their books, or their followers' websites are allowed:

New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) and all other proponents of Dolgyal/Shugden
Dark Zen
True Buddha School
Aro Ter/Flaming Jewel Sangha


P mentioned belonging to

Quote

my respected friend and vajra brother Nkagpa Chogyam, otherwise known as Nkagchang Rinpoche. He and his wife Dechen are the "lineage holders" of Aro Buddhism, which is recognised by several high ranking Nyingma lamas including Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Tarchin Rinpoche. I have to admit that Chogyam's presentation is somewhat unorthodox. But his teachings are 100% traditional Nyingma. In addition, not a breath of sexual or financial scandal has ever been attached to the Aro sangha

So Pema, that means you are in something that E-sangha has qualms about.

For perspective here is the terms of use for E-sangha. It should be noted that they have and expect a very much higher standard of behavior than
RR.com---at RR.com its comparatively easy going.

Still, last thing needed on RR.com is a debilitating and pointless dog-fight--as has already been going on in the Hansard thread, which I gave up looking at a very long time ago.

And I dont plan to post here and will not reply to any PMs from any parties on this particular thread.

My energies go only so far.

Here, as my going away gift is the text of the E-Sangha's terms of use. If anyone thinks that Rick Ross runs a tough ship, he is a very easy going fellow compared with what is expected of anyone at E-sangha.

Quote

Right View

1) While it is acknowledged that levels of understanding of the Dharma will vary among members, and that all will have their own beliefs about it, certain doctrines such as karma, postmortem rebirth and not-self, are held to be core teachings by all Buddhist traditions. Members are free to privately disagree with these teachings, or to discuss and ask questions about them, but not to debate them, denigrate them, or deny that they were taught by the Buddha.

2) Members may not post, attach, use or send any posts, Personal Messages, links, images or files that promote a religion, belief, faith or doctrine other than "Buddhism." Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.

3) These few "Buddhist" schools of thoughts are not recognized by E-sangha. No links to their websites, their books, or their followers' websites are allowed:

New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) and all other proponents of Dolgyal/Shugden
Dark Zen
True Buddha School
Aro Ter/Flaming Jewel Sangha

Right Intention

4) Treat all members with respect. Members in this international forum have different backgrounds and opinions. Dharma is general, but unique to each person's understanding and progress. If you disagree, accept the differences and be willing to learn.

5) Avoid blaming others. Seeing someone else’s fault is easier than seeing one’s own fault. Try to find your own faults and purify your mind. Always check your own karma and its fruit.

6) Discussion board posts can easily be perceived in a way not intended by the writer. For that reason, try to always assume that a post you read was written with the best of intentions rather than the worst. Likewise, when writing a post, take care to make your intentions clear to others.

7) Although discussion of Buddhist teachers is allowed, members may not disparage Buddhist teachers with slander or gossip.

Right Speech

8) Offensive or vulgar language, personal attacks, and sect bashing are not allowed. Abusive speech, including insults regarding race, nationality, culture, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or personal disability will be considered an act of violence and cause for termination of privileges.

9) The use of the term "fundamentalist", as an appellation of another Buddhist's view, is not permitted on this board.

10) Questions and negative comments about moderator actions and decisions, E-sangha TOS, forum guidelines, banned members, or one's intention to leave E-sangha or shift to another website are not allowed in the forum. All such discussions shall be conducted privately with a moderator or administrator through e-mail or Personal Message.

Right Action

11) You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this discussion forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, lewd, pornographic, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

12) You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by E-sangha. Short excerpts of copyrighted material may be used for discussion purposes in accordance with fair use provided that the author and original source is documented.

13) Users will neither solicit nor promote the use of an illegal substance, or illegal activity, nor discuss illegal activities with the intent to commit them.

14) Members that are not Buddhist monastics, lamas, priests, or ordained teachers may not use a photograph of a person wearing monastic or clerical robes as their avatar. However, they may display such a picture on their personal profile page.

15) Members who publicly indicate on E-sangha that they are a monastic, lama, priest, or other ordained Buddhist teacher must meet the E-sangha Guidelines for Ordained Members.

Right Livelihood

16) E-Sangha reserves the right to publish, republish, delete or modify all posts at its discretion.

17) Members will ensure that they keep up to date with the most current version of the TOS and Forum Guidelines. E-sangha reserves the right to vary, modify, add, subtract or delete any of the E-sangha TOS and forum guidelines or part thereof at any time with or without notice.

18) You will not hold E-sangha, its owners, its staff members, or its members, responsible for any losses or damages suffered as a consequence of using this site or its services, or resulting from the actions or inaction of its owners, staff members or members.

19) Members must log into their account at least once every 12 months to keep their account active. Inactive accounts may be removed.

Right Effort

20) The messages on this discussion board express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this discussion board. Any member who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

21) Do not give out personal information in your posts or your profile that you do not wish others to know. E-sangha cannot be held responsible for the consequences if you choose to do otherwise.

Members that find objectionable content in a post are encouraged to use the "report this post" button to notify the appropriate moderators.

22) Signatures that include any quotes from the Buddha or other Scriptural material must also provide a detailed citation of the Scriptural source.

23) All posts, signatures, blog entries, and link content should either be in English or be accompanied by an English translation.

Right Mindfulness

24) E-sangha shall be considered a place of respect and devotion. Behavior that is disruptive, upsetting and unmindful shall be cause for termination of privileges.

25) Discussions of relations between Buddhism and other religions are only permitted in the Buddhist Comparative Religion and Philosophy sub-forum.

Right Concentration

26) When replying to a post, be sure that you are only quoting relevant portions of the post that you are replying to - don't over quote.

27) Posts that are off-topic, do not contribute to, or otherwise disrupt a thread will be removed or relocated.

28) Members may not post the same message in multiple forums (cross-posting).


Guidelines for Ordained Members


Members who publicly indicate on E-sangha that they are a monastic, lama, priest, or other ordained Buddhist teacher must meet the following requirements:

1. Post a picture of yourself as your member avatar.
2. Identify your location in your profile.
3. Identify your religious tradition/sect.
4. If you are a monastic, provide the name of your preceptor and the date and location of your ordination.
5. If you are a lama, priest, or other Buddhist teacher, provide the name and location of who authorizes you to teach (lamas, in addition, please include the date and location of your three year retreat).

Items 3-5 must be added to either your profile or your signature. Information on an external link shall not satisfy the above requirements.

This rule does not apply to members of groups not recognized by E-sangha, as indicated in the Board Guidelines. Such members should not identify themselves on E-sangha as monastics, lamas, priests, or teachers.

A "monastic" is defined for E-sangha as a person who has legitimately received at least a novice ordination in a monastic tradition and presently maintains those vows and precepts, including celibacy. Monastic traditions are defined as those of the Theravada, Dharmagupta, or Mulasarvastivada schools.

A "priest" is defined for E-sangha as a person who has received formal ordination in any of the modern Japanese lineages, sects, or schools, and who is either married or unmarried. The ordination must have been verifiably recognized by the concerned formal governing body in Japan. The term "minister" may be used in the same sense as "priest" if desired.

Any member claiming to be either a monastic or priest according to the above definitions may be asked to present a copy of formal documentation upon written request by an administrator. This documentation may be requested at any time, even if the stated requirements have been fulfilled. Submitted documentation will be treated with the utmost care and respect, and will not be displayed in public or distributed to third parties under any circumstances.

Refusal to comply with any aspect of this rule will result in suspension or permanent ban.

Rev. 07-16-2008



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2008 12:05AM by corboy.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 17, 2008 12:29AM

duplicate post removedC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2008 12:31AM by corboy.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Emma C ()
Date: August 17, 2008 02:12AM

Being a former member, I can speak from experience that these documents are not authentic dharma, and are kept secret until members are sufficiently brainwashed. The practices get weirder and weirder, and the Diamond Way cult must realise this. The cult knows full well that if people saw this from the start, they'd run a mile! Hiding your real beliefs in this way is a typical hallmark of a cult.

In DW you have to get an 'empowerment' from 'Lama' Ole Nydahl where he basically rambles on some Tibetan mumbo jumbo and touches a bit of metal on your head. You have to do a different one of these before being allowed to do any of these meditations. You have to go to separate lectures for each of these 'empowerments', costing between £10-£35, where Ole goes on about some pseudo-scientific, racist rubbish (he is especially racist against Muslims). There is a new 'empowerment' for every ritual, and this keeps the brainwashing up, and keeps the money flowing to Ole Nydahl, so he can keep his lifestyle of luxury, flying round the world.

What is also interesting regarding these texts authenticity, is that they are copyrighted. You can't have it both ways. Either the material unmodified from the Tibetan originals, and so, given such an antiquity out of copyright -- suggesting that the copyright applied by Diamond Way is a fraud -- or the material has been significantly modified by Diamond Way, making it not authentic.

Also, regarding Ole Nydahl's use of the Lama title, here is a quote from Wikipedia:
Quote

Ole Nydahl has been criticised for using the title of Lama, despite having not completed the usual 3-year retreat required to take on such a title. Lama Namsen Rinpoche, a lama of the Karma Kagyu lineage, states that the 16th Karmapa during a meeting in 1977 told Ole Nydahl "You are not a Lama. You have met many Lamas, but you are not one of them. What you can do is tell others about Dharma, but you can't act like a Lama".

I also challenge you to prove your remarks about me being someone else, or shut up. It is blatantly obvious to everyone here that both you and krampapa (wouldn't be surprised if they are the same person) are trolls sent by this cult to silence or censor any negative information about DW and Ole Nydahl, and if this is not possible, you attempt to slander and accuse the person of various things. This proves exactly what I said in my first post about harassment.

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