Diesel Im sorry man but I think youre running on an empty tank. You may want to throttle down a bit before you pop another piston. This aint no physical here man, 'the doctor' has come to remove a tumor.

You seem like you want to be seen as a level headed, sophisticated, Christian here only to enlighten us infidels to the reality of your church, which has a place in Ricks data base of cult like organizations. So why is it a seemingly sophisticated, not-simple-minded Christian abandons all rationality by saying: "My mom was in the kitchen, and she felt the Spirit of the Lord come upon her, and suddenly she knew there was something wrong."

Lets assume your mother didnt hear the commotion of you and your brother jumping on the bed and as a concerned human mother check in on her son. Lets assume that she was oblivious to your activities and actually came to your aid on a hunch, at best womens intuition. Well isnt admiting that she, having no sensory awareness of your situation (meaning she couldnt hear / see smell whatever) you and your brother were doing that day kinda like attributing her coming to your assistance to a phsychic ability?

"All of a sudden in the kitchen Diesles mother gets a Sensation of impending danger"

Spider Sense Tingling Jimmy must be suffocating.

Come on man, its called reality, get back in touch with it while you still can!!

Here's another Gem:
" she felt the Spirit of the Lord come upon her, and suddenly she knew there was something wrong. She came into the bedroom, where my brother and sister not knowing that I was in danger, were still jumping on the bed. She told them to quit, and was ready to walk out of the room when she wondered about my whereabouts."

Minus the speculation as to why your mother came to investigate the bed room you explain for yourself who saved you that day. Do you ever bother to reread your posts for continuity? Cause youre missing some rather blatant details here, and whats worse is you lived these events... Starting to see your picture a little more clearly here...

Just for the record though, if your mother attributes god's presence for saving your life that day, she is revealing a lack of confidence in her own maternal instincts, I bet God was very busy saving the lives of you and your siblings....
Honestly man you are like a fountain of idiocy, spouting the details of your frighteningly primative lifestyle and overlooking some very obvoius landmarks. Not to mention attributing some fairly commonplace coincedences to a higher power all the while diminishing your own role in the outcome of your life.

For those reading this now who arent Diesel take a second or two to ponder this:

If a Christian believes in the Word of God as the absolute truth how does that Christian explain the fundamental dissonence in their own belief system; God spoke to prophets and spelled out the entire story of human existance and punctuated it with the Book of Revelations, where in the demise of humanity is etched in stone. Yet the underlying princeple of Christianity emphasises the importance of free will among people, and that it is our own free will and choices made as a Christian that determines our fate as an individual. How is it the Future can be written in stone as it is in the Bible and the concept of human free will co-exist?

The answer to that question takes years to come up with. And to do so one has to avoid Doctors at all costs because the only way to draw a logical conclusion from that conundrum is to suffer through several infections leading to brain damage which goes undetected by the avoidance of physicians.

Diesel if I havent burnt out your attention span let me just quote you a few more times to help enlighten you to your own dilemna:

" How can you explain when a tornado will destroy one house, skip the next one, and then destroy the next? "

They are called wind currents, they actually guide the direction of wind. Even a storm as chaotic as a tornado has them. We learned those sorts of things as a race before we learned the earth was round, we had people harnessing that invisible power with sails on big boats. Quite a force of nature that pesky Ol' Wind isnt it. By the way dont bother telling me that God controls those, The Oceans do, we know better.

"Many miracles have been performed in our church and before our members."

Does that include the miracle of matching shoes and socks? Im having a hard time imagining you sucessfully tying your shoes without attributing it to a miracle of sorts.

And last but not least my favorite Diesel quote:
". I once scored in the top 10% on an IQ test, was the Salutatorian of my graduating hs class, and am now a teacher who teaches Pre-Algebra."


Pre-Algebra eh? The real thing too much for you?

Id also like to see the group your IQ was tested with, Im willing to bet that there was a rock or two placed at a desk to fill seats if ya know what I mean... Scoring in the top ten percent isnt saying shit if you took the test with 9 or 900 people. Youre still pretty dumb to believe in such nonsense as you posted.


Dont get me wrong man cause all in all I think of you as a vicytim. You were born into a backwards system and are lucky to have survived. I conscider you a victim of and the inheritant of a learned helplessness. Your words telling your story are the picture of confusion and the result of being bred into a cult.

I understand that it may be offensive to you to find your church listed in a database for cults. But in the real world, which is round by the way, where we live with physicians, medicine, and common sense (what you call the presence of the lord) we have a saying: "If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck and it 'quacks' like a duck, then it sure as Hell aint no Eagle"

Its thoughtful of you to pray for us and our enlightenment or what have you, its very condiscending and judgemental of you too. Did you forget the lesson taught by your savior regarding "Judge not and ye shall not be judged'? I think you have. Save your prayers for us, instead pray for God to finally bless you with the gift of reason and intellect.

Sew him up nurse! Operation sucessful.

Now you have something in common with Sweet Jebus, Youve both been crucified by your words.

communication is sharing information, and responding the the stated needs and preferences of the person or group you're with.

'Preaching' in the bad sense is when a person 'dumps' and imposes a viewpoint on people who say, courteously and repeatedly, that they are not interested.

Its the difference between offering a guest a third helping of food, and respecting your guest when he or she says, 'No, thank you, I am full and cannot eat another helping'

versus

Refusing to respect your guest's statement that he or she is full and forcibly stuffing food down their throats.

Thats preaching in the bad sense.

Food can be delicious and nourishing, but if someone says they are full, they'll get very unhappy if it is forced on them, no matter how good your intentions are.

In a healthy church you're taught the difference between communicating and preaching.

In a cult you're taught that preaching and communicating are the same thing.

As always Corboy, well said.

Another fine example of someone misinterpreting the facts. However, since I gave out the facts, I must take some of the blame for not explaining myself completely.

Concerning the IQ test: I did not score in the top 10% of my class or of the others taking the test at that time. If that was all that it was, I would not bother to mention it. IQ test scores are shown on a bell curve. Think of the Liberty Bell. The line starts at the bottom from the left and works its way up in a curve until it plateau's and then begins decending in the same manner until it reaches the same spot in heighth on the right hand side as the left. It looks like a bell. This bell is split into 6 different measurements using five lines. The first starts at the top(middle of the bell) and goes straight down. The next two are drawn in the same manner, one to the left and one to the right of the middle line of equal distance from the middle line. The last two lines are drawn the same way, making it look like a bell with one line drawn through the middle and two lines of equal distance from the middle line on both sides of the middle line. Now as IQ's go, the two middle sections make up the most common IQ scores. Most people fall in this range. That would be about 80% of this Earth's population. To the left of the middle region are people who test in the lower IQ range. These people's disablities range in severity. Some have minor learning disablities, while the further left you go, you will find those who are mentally retarded. The further right of the middle sections you go, the higher a person's IQ is. It starts with those who are considered "Gifted and Talented" and goes as far as Genius. Now I am not a genius, neither have I ever claimed to be. But my IQ score shows that I fall in the Gifted and Talented range, which is the top 10%. This is where I fall. I hope you understand now.
Concerning communication/preaching: I do know the difference between the two, although I doubt that you do. However, for your information communication is nothing more than the sharing of thoughts, ideas, and/or messages. So therefore, preaching is a form of communication. As is teaching, speaking, writing, typing, and body language. All of these are appropriate forms of communication. And, as far as preaching goes, I believe that if you are truly preaching, you should have the Bible, and its contents to back what you are saying. However, I did not quote anything from the bible, in an effort to make sure I didn't appear as if I was preaching. Instead, I was communicating by typing personal instances in my life(sharing thoughts) to those of your users who aren't getting all the information from the media. I was also trying to educate those who would like to have the Whole Truth avaliable to them before forming opinions.
Concerning my teaching Pre-Algebra: If a team needs a quarterback they draft a quarterback, they don't draft a defensive lineman. Now, this may surprise you, but schools generally run with the same idea; which is you hire what you need. There was no need for them to hire a Algebra I, II, Geometry, Trigonmetry, or Calculus teacher(which I am equally capable of teaching), but a Pre-Algebra teacher. I needed a job, was the most qualified to teach math, so I was hired to teach Pre-Algebra. And I gaurantee you, ask any math teacher with any experience, and they will tell you that they would much rather teach a HS math course than a MS math course due to the maturity of the students. There isn't a math teacher in this school that would trade jobs with me. It is much harder to deal with horomone driven students who are trying to learn to deal with these excess horomones, than it is for those who are almost ready for adulthood.

"By the way dont bother telling me that God controls those, The Oceans do, we know better."

Now, therein lies the problem. You don't believe in God while I do. If you did believe in God, then you would know that He controls ALL things. He decides what He will allow and what He won't allow to happen. Now I don't want to sound like I'm preaching, so let me put it this way. This saying has been quite prevelant in this area, and maybe you have heard of it. However if not, think on it a while. Lets say for arguements sake, that you are correct, that there is no God. If I live my life according to the Holy Word, and there is no God, when I die, my body will turn into dust, and since there is no God there is no soul, so that would be the end. Still, I lived my life in a manner that was good and just, striving to be Christ-Like(thus the word Christian). Now, lets say that there is a God. If I lived my whole life believing that there was no God, what kind of surprise am I going to be in for when Judgement Day comes, and my life is weighed, and I am found wanting? For if there is a God, there will certainly be a Hell. Now I know that may sound as if I am preaching, but if someone is going to post a message that accuses me--- "'Preaching' in the bad sense is when a person 'dumps' and imposes a viewpoint on people who say, courteously and repeatedly, that they are not interested,"--- how is what I am saying, in any way different from what they are saying. I can back my posts with the Bible and they will back their posts with the media. Is not them telling me how my views are wrong and theirs right, basically the same thing that you guys are saying make my church, and others, a cult? What makes one person's opinion more correct than the others? Does everyone else get to impose viewpoints on me, and those of my church, although we say, courteously and repeatedly, that we are not interested?
Now tell me why I am considered 'brainwashed'? Are you not brainwashed by the media? Can you not see that you, also, think only in a manner by which you were taught? You were taught by your parents that when you were sick, you went to the hospital. You are taught by the media that your way of life is acceptable and ours is wrong, yet have you actually met any of us or have any other knowledge of those of my faith other than what you read in newspaper clippings and see on CNN?
None of what I said is going to make any difference to those who don't believe in God, but maybe you should actually think about what I have written.

Hiding behind God or the bible doesn't change the facts concerning your group or the law.

You may believe whatever you wish, but you cannot do anything you want in the name of those beliefs.

This specifically includes the medical neglect of children by their parents.

You forget that Jesus was convicted as a criminal and killed. Many of his followers afterwards were treated in the same manner. You may say that we are hiding behind the Bible, but in the same manner I could say that the rest of you were trying to hide from the Bible. The reason that we care not for the laws of man(when they conflict with the Word of God) is because what is written in the Old Testament concerning faith. The three Hebrew children and Daniel's faith talk about trusting in God despite what the laws of the land may be. And as far as us 'neglecting' our children, think on this. God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son, even though it had taken so long for his son to be born and God had promised him that his seed would save the world. Abraham's faith is an example to all of us. Besides, we don't do anything we want because of our faith. We do what we are instructed to do because of our faith.

Your group is hardly comparable to "Jesus" or early Christians.

Jesus said, "Suffer not the little children."

In your group children suffer and die.

The New Testament teaches to obey civil authority, and your group has disobeyed the law.

Your rant simply demonstrates that "cults" frequently twist whatever scripture they quote to serve their own purposes.

BTW-- Abraham's son did not die.

We are hardly comparable? Are not the people in our faith charged as criminals? Was not Jesus charged as a criminal? Are not people of my church persecuted by authorities because of our beliefs? Were not early Christians done the same way? The Apostle Paul was at first Saul, seeker and destroyer of those who called on the name of Jesus. His reputation was so fierce, that for many years after his conversion, he wasn't accepted as a worker for the Lord. Plus you accuse us of twisting the scripture to serve our own purposes, yet you take things out of context yourself. One must read the whole Bible, not just exerpts that satisfy their points of view. How else does someone interpret the scripture when it plainly says to call upon the elders of your church when you are sick and ask them to come, and annoint you with oil, and to pray over you that you may be healed? And although it instructs you to obey the civil authority, it also states that those who deny Christ will also be denied. If the civil authority creates laws that are contrary to the Will of God, we are in no means required to obey man's laws while ignoring God's Will.

By the way, you might want to check the rules concerning preaching:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Is it okay for you to post scripture, but not me? And why only reprimand me and not templar? Did he or she not quote scripture also? And, have I quoted scripture? It seems that your rules only apply to those whose viewpoints you disagree with. That is interesting. People who have been reading this thread might want to ask themselves why the moderators are only reprimanding me and not others who are in clear violation of their own rules. I think someone is feeling threatened.

Our children survive also. Those that do pass away, do so because it was the Will of God, just as it was the Will of God for a ram to be trapped in the brush, so that Abraham would not be forced to sacrifice his son. Just, BTW.