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Originally posted by express
It's time for a new system based on science not mysticism and superstition.

You keep saying that but seem to offer no alternative.

(RMG's reply: Lloyd Graham's book, "Deceptions and Myths of the Bible" has one alternative system that I'm working on to use as a spring board for a new system. These ancient religions have been around for millenia, so give me a few years if need be to contribute to the human race myself.)

Now I don't believe in channeling but I do believe in God. And I find your whole arrogance to the subject disrespectful.
(RMG's reply: I'm not sure what's arrogant. I'm not cursing anyone or damning them to hell like some would me. I just disagree and refuse to let anyone shove their beliefs down my throat.)
You were treated badly by the Jewish Orthodox
(RMG's reply: I had a bad run in with Xianity too.)

and it impacted you. I lost my boyfriend to the ICC and it took me a very long time to get past that but it didn't destroy my faith. I am not saying you have to believe in anything but please be repsectful of us run of the mill chrstains, jews, muslims..... because we are respectful of you.
(RMG's reply: My main problem is with the priests of these religions who know that their systems are based largely in myth and not in reality).

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Originally posted by letGodbetrue
I'm sort of curious about what alternatives you've offered also. And the secular Israeli's have offered an alternative? What's that supposed to mean?

It seems that you've had a bad experience with religion, which I find very plausible, and you have hardened your heart. What happened? This is supposed to be an academic pursuit of knowledge here, not just 'what I believe', or 'how I feel'. Who are these fanatics you mention? Hickman, Schneersohn?
(Jack Hickman was the leader of a prominent church on LI, NY in the '70's to the mid '80's. He restyled the church to become an ultraorthodox version of Hebrew Xianity. He proclaimed himself a descendent of Peter, etc.. Several thousand people were involved until Hickman was confronted with the fact that he was a homosexual.
Menachem Schneersohn was the leader of the Chabad Lubavitch movement. He died in '94 at the age of '92. He led the largest Chasidic movement and taugth them that the Messianic redemption was "immanent". He died with no redemption occuring. He was considered both an expositor of Judaism to his followers, and also a prophet.
Schneersohn's teachings are rejected by most of the orthodox world. He was too radical. But about 100K to 350K people depending on the estimates are involved. And in the Jewish world that's sizeable especially since he was able to motivate his followers to do basically anything for him.



Who are these people? What is the 'problem' you are referring to? 'Express' is just asking for a little respect, and you are getting defensive...

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Originally posted by letGodbetrue
I'm sort of curious about what alternatives you've offered also. And the secular Israeli's have offered an alternative? What's that supposed to mean?

RMG's reply: Secular Israelis have raised an entire generation of well adjusted useful, fully employed and self-fulfilled people without having to resort to a book on mysticism. I lived in Israel for 5 years so I've seen it with my own eyes. Try looking up
Hashomer Hatzair.

It seems that you've had a bad experience with religion, which I find very plausible, and you have hardened your heart. What happened? This is supposed to be an academic pursuit of knowledge here, not just 'what I believe', or 'how I feel'. Who are these fanatics you mention? Hickman, Schneersohn? Who are these people? What is the 'problem' you are referring to? 'Express' is just asking for a little respect, and you are getting defensive...
(RMG's reply: I'm not trying to dis anyone but my point of view is very jaundiced. I've heard all the missionary claims before, I've seen all the Jewish rebuttals. Every couple of years I get hauled in one way or the other to refute the claims and it's the same stuff all the time. Many, many people involved with religion live in a box that only their religion is the one true path.
Now I don't think the Episcopalians hate the Methodists, but I can say that the cult leaders all believe that they and only they have the right formulation. There are many more cults out there than you can shake a stick at. And all these people present basically the same type of problem for the establishment that previous cults and cult leaders did.
Also, when it comes to respect, please respect my belief that I don't need to defend why I don't believe someone can walk on water or why I don't need his "saving power". I feel I was condescended to when it was presented to me that I needed Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins' Like I said, I heard it all before. And when I did give my life up to Jesus, I got stabbed in the back. And we were a "spiritual" congregation not an organized religion, supposedly.

Quote

Originally posted by express
I am not saying you have to believe in anything but please be repsectful of us run of the mill chrstains, jews, muslims..... because we are respectful of you.