Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dharmabum ()
Date: April 19, 2011 04:38AM

Thanks Vox for the input. It's all so true. Let me put it this way: It's not just fine to watch all these cult members get mind-fucked (some willingly) by gurus, but there's nothing much society could do about it because of religious freedom. But it really is outrageous to watch and do nothing for these parents to offer their children get mind-fucked as well, just because they enjoyed getting their minds raped by their gurus. This is a valid social issue, it's about time the law should act in the interest of unwilling victims. I hear about the issue of bullying in schools and in all sectors of society, but one sector that is completely ignored, or at least I never hear about, is the bullying inside the home. The cult of Chris Butler in particular, encourages parents to bully their children to submission based on Vedic principles. They are denied of proper education and basic science, instead they are taught these primitive culture and Vedic science that teaches that the moon is bigger than the sun and one of the stars and the sun is a planet where gods live. The children I am in touch with are smart kids and have to bear in their minds the collision of knowledge with superstitions they are bombarded with day in and day out; unfortunately for others, the superstitions usually win; and they had no choice but to survive this ordeal and keep clear of the outside world, if they are to get accepted as bonafide members of the cult. Watching them get mind-fucked unwillingly by the guru and his minions is a heart-rending experience.

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Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 22, 2011 11:05PM

Our guru is better than your guru, nyah nyah nyah!

Dueling sitars!

The following link was sent to me by Dassi.
There have been some reports on this forum about how several of Butler’s followers left his cult to come to another guru from India named Narayana Maharaja. [ He was one of ACB's former godbrothers and part of the Gaudiya Math. ACB broke away from this group prior to starting his cult in America.]

Also, several ex ISKCON members joined up with the NM group after their own scandals. I do not have any information to validate or invalidate whether they just traded one cult for another. It does seem to follow the more traditional Vedic religion. Hopefully they will not need a thread of their own on Rick Ross, but who knows?

The following clip is a conversation between Butler’s doctor of many years and Narayana Maharaja.


“Gurudev: what Siddhaswarup give to you?
Dr T: He give me nothing... after 25 years I don't know nothing, he kept me in darknes give only little light, there is no gayatri mantra, no harikatha, no rasa bhajana, there is nothing, no Krishna, no Radha, nothing, only darkness.”

The following comments about the video demonstrate how Butler’s cult has such a formidable stranglehold on followers using FEAR. They really believe this man is doomed. Using the same phrases and buzz words with which exers are all too familiar: “threw your spiritual life away” “ covered up” “shelter” “maya devi has you” “beg for forgiveness”…these broken English comments probably come from someone who probably never met Butler in person.


christar108 - if this is the siddhaswarupanda - chris butler, your speaking about.....i pray for you to beg for forgiveness because u have been very offensive.....darkness...come on....SP is pure devotee so please clarify and please please tell me you werent speaking of siddha i know.......please

-they don't do this and they don't that but they do chant the maha mantra...u said it yourself... who are you to critisize? ...such shame you threw your entire spiritual life away in a heart beat...not qualified because he doesn't do this or that...such a shame your so covered up...what did Siddha give you -- he gave you shelter...he gave you krishna...but maya devi certainly has you in her grasp...please beg for forgiveness...look into your heart and just try...its a start.

I do not know if the Narayana Maharaja group is a cult or not, but from videos he freely disagrees with the opinions of other Vaishnavas, which is healthy in any religious organization. So that was refreshing to see.
There is one video titled “Narayana Maharaja blashemes Srila Prabhupada”
that must have been posted by the other competitive group [ISKCON]:
Narayana Maharaja openly declares that the elder (ACB) Prabhupada was wrong [about a certain Vaishnava doctrine].
"I do not agree with this statement; and he [Srila Prabhupada] cannot write, never."

Another video stated “No Bhakti, only money” NM acknowledges this and states that no one can be sincere following ISKCON – NM says that if leaders are not sincere, how can the followers be sincere – they only collect money – nothing else – have so many scams – if sincere they leave. Says collecting money is not a requirement. Those that want only to make money will never come (to NM) “they will protest”.

Not to get ones hopes up that NM might be a real religious leader, because this sort of thing was said by Butler about ISKCON as well…
I would still be vigilant and cautious about following any doctrine and use the Rick Ross resources on how to identify a cult.

I do not endorse this guru Narayana Maharaja, but find it interesting that he comes out publicly against Butler and ISKCON, and rightfully so. I guess only time will tell if he is just the other side of the same cult coin or a legitimate religious leader (is that an oxymoron?) *

The exer who sent me these links stated that she was glad that she did not find out about this other guru because she would have fallen into the same trap again. It is true what Vox states that it takes years to get out from under the cults spell.

*Tuco says, "And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true." ~ Tennyson (Idylls of the King)

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chant for global peace my ass
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 22, 2011 11:27PM

The Chant For Peace Foundation video of Jivan is no longer public.

The recruiting party is coming soon to Sacramento.
April 30 in William Land Park.
If you are in the area please document.
this is a Butler cult project under the guise of promoting world peace.
They are fundraising claiming to "feed poor families locally and in third world country" LOL!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: April 24, 2011 10:03AM

The Dueling Gurus indeed.
On that same page (
there was this piece along with a few others. Note- there is no physical representation of Butler anywhere just his purported "words of wisdom" What are these You Tube videos? More of the same rehashed items, ad nauseum:

[] - You must be joking, remember the anger and forgiveness (?) you all received back in the day?
and this priceless one:

[] - prejudice and bigotry??? Remember all the gay-bashing? And calling everyone who was not in his little group, "karmi's"

Now please take note that you may not leave any comments on these videos-that function has been disabled. Guess they can't stand the heat, but it does speak volumes, doesn't it?
I suppose they think some innocent person will stumble across these videos and actually try and learn more about this guru.
They would do well to do their research first, and hopefully they will find this thread.
And that is the crux of this issue. In this day and age, with the internet, they can run but they cannot hide.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dharmabum ()
Date: April 25, 2011 03:30AM

Anger is born out of lust; and lust is the result of contemplation of the senses on material objects. In the final analysis, anger hurts you more than anyone else. One must be able to forgive others especially for offenses against himself. Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa - Science of Identity Foundation

Blah blah blah … speak for yourself Chris Butler. You need to attend an anger management program if you are to the least be believed. People in the know should continue to post their knowledge of the cult here. You will be doing the world and humanity a great service by helping expose the duplicity and the hypocrisy of religious cults like the Science of Identity, and hold them guilty of the many lives and families that fall victims to the lies such as the above. They may flood the internet with touching but dubious quotes of wisdom that do not even apply to them, but your postings here will stay protected and practically forever. People in the end will get to know the darker end that lies deep the surface these cult members try so hard to project.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 25, 2011 08:03AM

The thing that struck me the most about the one video with Dr T was how embarassed everyone was for this groveling, simpering man. NM looked uncomfortable too. This behavior was/is really perpetuated by Butler who enjoys and mocks it at the same time while encouraging this type of submission. Notice how NM tries to calm his emotions down by uplifting him and saying not to worry - he tells Dr T that will inspire him. Butler would never behave this way towards a follower. He wouldn't even pretend to care. And NM, who is older than Butler, puts himself out there on videos. Not vain about growing old or fearful about standing behind his teachings. These fairy dust videos that Butler's followers put out are not only old, they are mostly inane and remind me of Stuart Smalley affirmations. []

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dharmabum ()
Date: April 25, 2011 01:14PM

To the followers of Chris Butler: Please free yourselves from the clutches of woohoos you were put under. It is a great feeling to let go, I will bet my neck you will feel set free at long last and enjoy a fresh new leash in life, a thousand times sweeter than the dogma you thought was sweet and were enslaved into. The next mistake is to fall for another guru like Narayan Maharaja or others like him who are late bloomers and would very much like enjoy the same success their wilier godbrother A.C. Bhaktivedanta, who became the envy of the Gaudiya Math sect for bringing the cult to the gullible West (read Monkey on a Stick). I doubt if he'll see the same success, because it's just the wrong time for cults to thrive nowadays. So it's like leaping from the frying pan to the fire; it's not just the same, it's worse. Free yourselves from the same spell this pitiful Christar108 of youtube is into. You are duped. This ideas of a pure devotee, absolute truth, shelter, maya, blasphemy, offensive, etc. are all illusions; designed to sound like fire and brimstone from heaven to bully you and your children to submission. This guy, Chris Butler is no better than you and I. Believe me, he's just as or hornier than the average guy on the street. This religious slavery has been going on since the beginning of human civilization. These archaic terms and definitions are just the same old religious slavery tools and tactics, power hungry gurus like Chris Butler use to gain wealth and comfort and laugh themselves to the bank. Wake up and free yourselves from these delusions and take pity on your dear children.

Post your experiences here and say it in Chris Butler's face that his lies don't work and you're choosing freedom and reason instead over superstitious belief. Help make this thread active all the time until the Science of Identity cult is completely exposed to the world. Then you'll be doing humanity a great service. You will be rewarded with genuine joy and authentic freedom. Life after cult is great, grab it while you can.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 01:27PM by dharmabum.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dharmabum ()
Date: April 26, 2011 01:46AM

Found this on youtube, about Australian School of Meditation. Chris Butler and Science of Identity's new racket, appearing as benign, mainstream and straight forward yoga clinic. They have a nice looking website too, Such hypocrisy, when, during the 70s he discouraged followers to engage in yoga exercises, demeaned them as inferior and useless in the practice of Bhakti yoga, which is devotion to Krsna (to him actually). To an innocent layman who simply wants to learn and enjoy healthy yoga exercises, this is like a flytrap, unbeknownst to be a sinister recruitment agency to the cult, Science of Identity Institute. Here are the red flags: Incorporated among the activities are japa meditation (deep peace), kirtan (mantra rock dance) and arotik (sunday spiritual gathering), disguised as healthy and innocent sounding new terms which we all know are the same tools and tactics we were all seduced into and ended up giving our money and free labor to enrich Chris Butler and Wai Lana Inc. The emphasis is on giving back to Mother Earth (Gaia), healthy lifestyle and high moral values, very much like Environmentalism or New Age. I wonder what they call Krsna now? The Avatar? Very clever Chris Butler; the problem is, there are people in the know who are determined to expose your lies, rackets and connections.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: April 26, 2011 08:55PM

Hey Vera, Narayan Maharaj passed away just a couple of months ago. I heard that he would initiate anyone and everyone possible, whether they were interested in chanting the names of g0d or whether they were even interested in following the regulative principles or not. Quite a lot of both ISKCON devotees as well as Butler devotees were attracted to him and his liberal attitude. However, other people considered him to be a great DEMON (!) who was stealing the followers of other spiritual masters ... oh, dear, more religious bickering and nonsense.

Dharmabum and Vox ~ Thanks for the links!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 26, 2011 09:11PM

Anyone getting involved with yoga has to exercise caution.

If your yoga instructor or the yoga practice center has guru portraits, find out the name and then FACT CHECK the guru's background.

One of our correspondants who was discussing an entirely different group said that if he were unethical and wanted to make a pile of money and create an empire, he'd look for ways to run a chain of yoga places and use that as the way to recruit people.

People let down their guard and their boundaries when going to yoga places, just as they do when going to the doctor or dentist, and that makes them (oh dirty word!)

Yoga is fashionable and a large market and people in that market have money and are willing to spend it.

And being 'negative' 'cynical' are, in yoga society, considered wrong, bad.

Perfect place for predatory types to recruit.

And people who dont otherwise do yoga are often advised to do it for stress reduction.

Repeat, any time someone you get involved with a yoga center or teacher--fact check.

And dont fact check once. Keep doing it. Who did your teacher train with?

Put terms such as cult, controversy allegations into your search.

And also use sex money finances power as search terms.

You dont want to go to a doctor who has been disciplined a bunch of times for malpractice; check yoga centers and instructors just as carefully as you would a doctor.

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