Gossip:
1. conversation about personal or intimate rumors or facts, especially when malicious
2. informal and chatty conversation or writing about recent and often personal events
3. somebody given to spreading personal or intimate information about other people

to tell people rumors or personal or intimate facts about other people, especially maliciously

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

I know that the word gossip is a buzz word in Chris Butlers cult and it is a way to stop people from talking about things fearless leader does not want them to talk about. Especially the things that go on in his personal service and varied projects from Ninja to Vegie chips to the politics. But in the outside world where people can say what they want and are free to speak, gossip is an everyday rite. And if you look at fearless leader and hear him speak you will see he also engages in gossip regularly. Gossip about ISKCON, homosexuality, politics and the lot. Much of what fearless leader gossips about is done in a very malicious way with a very distorted view of what has really happened or is happening. Fearless leader has spread gossip about personal and intimate facts concerning many of his own disciples as well as his enemies and he does engage in chatty conversation about recent events. I know because I have heard his chatty conversations many times. Some of his lectures are no more than chatty conversations presenting a contorted view of reality and can be quite malicious.

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Rama Das (slave name)
I guess the way I would describe the most recent lectures I had heard would be dismal... like a downward spiral the focus is on how bad the here and now is, to totally turn people into walking corpses, the only beauty is placed outside of this very life and world, to try and eradicate anything the followers may have of value in this world.
I do not mean money or possesions, I mean CREATIVITY, humor, SOLIDARITY, individual power and the god given ability to discover and learn.

Also increasingly insular.

well spoken.
I was dying from having my creativity, humor, time, solidarity with kindred spirits, and my very essence stolen from me.
After I left, I felt like a fish back in the water.
Of course, Old Sid will mind f*ck people into believing that the water
is maya.
How very wrong he is.

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quotesman

I know that the word gossip is a buzz word in Chris Butlers cult and it is a way to stop people from talking about things fearless leader does not want them to talk about. ... Fearless leader has spread gossip about personal and intimate facts concerning many of his own disciples as well as his enemies and he does engage in chatty conversation about recent events. ...presenting a contorted view of reality and can be quite malicious.

HERE HERE!
Too true!
BIG buzz word and programing code for the brain washed!

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quotesman
Are those videos still available, some one should put them on Utube. How could we have not caught all the contradictions and hypocrisy????

cultreporter put some up on YouTube and her website. She claimed that the You Tube people got complaints from SoI and had to take them down. Plausible. You Tube reasonably fears litigation.

As far as how could we not have caught all the contradictions and hypocrisy? It still boggles my mind. I guess I so much wanted to believe that he was the Answer Man that I suspended all critical thinking skills,
at least for awhile.
I thank ___________________ (fill in the blank) that I finally woke up!

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Dassi

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terrenaut
I appreciate the information that has been presented here, and can verify that many of the things that have been said are true enough.

I have also noticed the tendency to simply engage in sneering and gossiping, which i dont believe is useful to the stated cause, of exposing this as a cult and warning others. It would be good if people present more factual evidence, and a little less conjecture and gossip, which only serves to dilute the actual facts. ..., dont get me wrong. I think that facts should come out. The only way to make important decisions is to have all facts on the table. Real issues have been raised, and I am trying to put them together in some order so that I can formulate some clear questions. thanks to everyone for their input

terre

Realize that everyone has had different experiences in the cult.
Different perceptions too.
Some people --- even whole families
have been very hurt and traumatized by this cult.
No one testimony is the same.
If you don't like the gossipy parts,
don't read them.
This is a forum of many opinions and points of view.
No one really has control over what is said on this forum.
You have to sift through and make up your own mind.
But there is a running theme.
It is a cult.
You don’t have to agree.

Maybe we don’t all define what a “cult” is in the same way.
Maybe we don’t agree on how dangerous it is.

We all deal with our past in different ways.
Some like to vent with humor.
Some vent with anger.
Others like to vent with more serious essays.
The focus on one vent is theological, another political, another ethical…
But venting is the operative word.
The main thing is that we are using our critical thinking skills.
Something not allowed in the cult.

A lot of stuff can't be proven - that does not make it less valid.
Some of us do fear retaliation from the cult.
You know we are considered blasphemers and demons.
We have a problem with this idea.
We have a problem with a lot of Siddha’s ideas.

The important point in the Purushotam comments
was the fact that Siddha had him dress up as a transvestite to STAGE the video.
P. was an actor.
All of Siddha's videos were staged and contrived.
It was not reality T.V. at all! It was scripted.
It was phony baloney.
The whole audience was made to dress in certain ways
and asked scripted questions written by Siddha.
Siddha was not this inspirational person.
He was a manipulator and a fake.
A charismatic narcissist.

Why did we comply?
We grapple with this question in different ways.

But all these stories have a common theme running through.
[b:f0acb65906]The Emperor Has No Clothes[/b:f0acb65906].

*note- I knew Purushotam fairly well. He was a good man, but like the rest of us, also had his flaws. He left behind some great kids and at least one ex-wife. He was loved. I was sad to hear of his passing. Last I saw him – he was close to Katyayani, (once said to be a “pure devotee”).

Perhaps you can shed some light on the rift between Katyayani, Sudama, and Siddha?
Just know the policy of this forum prohibits anyone from flaming others or preaching.

Well said dassi, well said.

and it would be interesting to hear from t. (who has been around for only 7 years) what the politically correct take on Katyayani and Purrosttama das is today in the cult. But I bet the gossip about that whole affair is still going on under peoples breath on a regular basis.

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hoax108
I was thinking the other day - you know what I used to find funny - the outfits that JG used to where in those old lecture videos. Remember - the nerdy shirts and pullover sweaters.

Who dressed him like that? Surely he didn't dress like that when "off camera". He looked like the president of the rocketry club at some community college. I think the image "they" were trying to portray was one of an "All American" preppy. What a tangled web of phoniness.

And then there were all his devotees in the crowd, sitting there like zombies on prozac. Asking canned questions and appearing so inspired and impressed at the answers. OMG - I'm chuckling just thinking about it.

Then there was the video series shot on the beach in California and JG up there on the vyasasan wearing a thick ski jacket that I always thought may be suitable for an Eskimo at the North Pole in January but a beach in CA? .

I'm laughing again at the absurdity of it all!
Siddha ordered and dressed himself that way! He also told everyone in the audience what to wear! Nerdy is right! His "at home wear" was always all cotton sweat pants and a turtleneck.

He was always a bit hypothermic.
Notice a lot of homeless people in hot climates wear tons of clothes.
For some reason, a lot of psychologically disturbed individuals develop hypothermia.

THE HYPOTHERMIC NERD.
Movie title? (Comedy. Staring jim Carey as homeless bum who becomes a cult leader)

Anyone remember the Phil Donohue Show?
Sidd tried to imitate his style in the first video attempts.
It was absolutely hilarious.
Sidd running around a crowd with a microphone.
Trouble is that the format was too egalitarian
and pluralistic for a Dominatrix Guru.

I agree that the order not to 'gossip' is a huge red flag. I have seen an innocent query "oh, where is so-and-so these days?" get blown up into a huge 'offense', when all people are doing is inquiring how their friends are doing. Totally out of proportion and unnecessary, IMO. I also get a little sick of the whispers and backroom dealing that is so obvious but we are not supposed to notice.

When I used the word in my previous post, I simply meant that if the serious accusations being made here, get downgraded to just a gossip session, then these accusations might just get ignored. Of course you are all allowed to deal with your experiences in any way you need to. Recovery takes many forms.

I too have seen devotees mercilessly lambasted over small things, in a deliberately humiliating way, presumably to bring one to 'surrender' or to help them defeat their ego, or some such, but it just seems cruel to me.

Yes, the lectures were staged. Obviously. I am still not sure if this was a good or bad thing. It did ensure that the point of the day was made clearly. It did not leave any room for sincere questioning, no. I have not seen or heard a recent lecture in a very long time.

I hope we can continue these conversations. I have already dealt with the notion that I am going to hell for this. I am not. God can take a few questions. I hope that you are all doing well in your lives.

Hi terranaut,

Like yourself I am still a devotee and I agree with you that a lot of what is said here is true enough. There is no reason why anyone should be prevented from hearing Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa's lectures, knowing what His character is or from thinking or asking questions in the course of their own spiritual journey.

As you said :

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anyway, dont get me wrong. I think that facts should come out. The only way to make important decisions is to have all facts on the table. Real issues have been raised, and I am trying to put them together in some order so that I can formulate some clear questions. thanks to everyone for their input

I fear that you will be taken wrong, but I hope that won't discourage you or me or anyone else who wants to "come out" as a devotee reading here from posting. Some people obviously cope with their disappointment or disillusionment, or whatever happened to them through humor. Devotees are prone to declaring this offensive and refusing to take it seriously without keeping in mind that is really for Krishna to judge. Gossip won't help in the investigation or education of the facts but I don't see how it would hurt anyone in the context of an internet conversation either. This is what it is. I think about it as at least people are talking and each can take away from it (or get away from it :wink: ) as they wish.

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I also noticed that CultReporter has disappeared. I saw her on another thread where she apologised to the group which had harmed her and it seemed she was returning to them. This is disturbing, anybody know where that is currently at? It was a little confusing, as she also said that cultreporter was a group of people trying to find the truth.

I would be suprised if this would be answered by any of the current posters here since she is a bit of a taboo subject and wasn't wanted until she was gone. Maybe not even then. I have been in touch with her for sometime and have spoken to her recently. A few devotees have spoken to her that I know of. I think it has been pretty clear what her views about this forum are. The group of people that you refer to do exist but they were always an informal group of former followers and some of them moved on over time. There is a difference between those who want the truth from a spiritual perspective and those who want to condemn without any spiritual motivation. She will always be a devotee and most likely will change a lot of things about the Science of Identity Foundation and the Australian School of Meditation whether with their co-operation or not. As for going back there I can say as much as she is not associating with the centers and does not play well with the sectarian spirit and did not get her beloved back. No money changed hands either and as someone that is in a position to know the Australian School of Meditation which is a legally seperate entity to the Science of Identity Foundation would not pay and would most likely not be authorised to pay any "hush money" or bribe, although in a way bribery was certainly on the agenda and many a meeting and transatlantic phone call was made on the issues she bought up.

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terrenaut
I agree that the order not to 'gossip' is a huge red flag....

I too have seen devotees mercilessly lambasted over small things, in a deliberately humiliating way, presumably to bring one to 'surrender' or to help them defeat their ego, or some such, but it just seems cruel to me.

Cruel indeed.
At first I thought the cruelty and humiliation
was to deflate the false ego
and of the utmost benefit to the recipient.
Then I realized that there was no therapuetic benefit.
It generated from a pathological place.

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Yes, the lectures were staged. Obviously. I am still not sure if this was a good or bad thing. It did ensure that the point of the day was made clearly. It did not leave any room for sincere questioning, no. I have not seen or heard a recent lecture in a very long time.

Editing is a powerful tool in making documentaries.
Staging is just fraud.
No room for sincere questioning. You got that right. Huge red flag.

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I have already dealt with the notion that I am going to hell for this. I am not. God can take a few questions.

(in my most phenomenal Valley Girl voice) Ya think!?? Like, duh!!!
No shit Sherlock!

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I hope that you are all doing well in your lives.

All of the exes I know are doing very well and are much more happy, content, productive since leaving the cult.
Not one regrets the decision to leave.