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cultreporter
With all respect Maui, as I have already indicated that I have for you what you say about ACB is ontlogically incorrect and reading your post I see a bias that is consistent with allegiance with Gaudiya Vaishnavism. This is something I could write extensively on and cross reference however here I aim to keep it brief, and know that some of the points have been raised before by myself and others.
I feel like i am speaking objective truth, I'm not trying to put forth subjective or biased opinions based on an "allegiance".
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If you would ever like to discuss spiritual issues beyond the scope of this thread I would be more than happy to communicate with you and will listen to what you have to say and consider it. I have stated before though that I do not read purports by ACB. The Holy Name is pure and speaks for itself. It is hypocrisy to sugguest that Krishna has perfect knowledge but he needs ACB to tell us what he [i:6e5ed802d9]really[/i:6e5ed802d9] meant to say.
I have never stated that anyone needs to be a disciple of, or study the writings of ACBS, in order to practice and gain the benefits that gaudiya vaishnavism purports to offer. So your claim that I am doing that is unfounded.
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The purports are many times longer than the verse that they address and seek to chritianise Krishna Consciousness, wholly inconsistent with any GV philosophy that I am aware of, completely at odds with Christian writings and having no support in the Scripture where Jesus is never mentioned.
You need to understand the tradition a little bit better.
You say that ACBS's purports are at odds with the gaudiya tradition. I don't think that is the case. The only time that anyone from the tradition has ever contested something he taught as being incosistent with the gaudiya tradition is on the topic of the origin of the soul. But that has been debated and shown to be false.
As for "christianizing" gaudiya teachings; I have no idea what you mean. Maybe you can elaborate.
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[b:6e5ed802d9]One cannot logically or scripturally condemn a disciple of a spiritual master without condemning the spiritual master themselves. [/b:6e5ed802d9]
ACB himself said as is scripturally supported that if one disciple falls down than the spiritual master is not bonafide and 'cheap gurus cheap disciples'.
You are mistaken. He never said or wrote such a thing. If you can show where he did I will retract my statement. It is well known and accepted in the gaudiya tradition that every guru will have many disciples who gave up the path of Krishna Bhakti. I don't know where you got that idea from.
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No one had cheaper disciples than ACB - Tamal Krishna, Kirtananda, Siddhaswarupananda. The whole original GBC - these were his closest and most trusted who had perverted desires for children, attatchment to homosexual sex lives and lust for other men's wives. They were embezzlers, women beaters, rapists and murderers.
It is a misconeption to think that people like Tamal Krishna or Kirtanananda were ACBS's closest and most trusted disciples. In fact Kirtanananda was the first person to be thrown out of ISKCON by ACBS. After he was thrown out he went to West Virginia and started his own ashrama, he then begged ACBS to allow him back in ISKCON. But he was never close to ACBS after that. Tamal Krishna was creating such a mess that he was kicked out of all his responsibilities and told to go to China and stay there by ACBS. So he also was not a close confident. The members of the GBC who were sexual with boys and young men were Kirtanananda and Bhavananda. Bhavananda did not begin his sexual acts with bengali teenage boys and young men until after ACBS died. The other GBC were not homosexuals nor were they child molesters,nor were they women beaters, nor were they having affairs with other mens wives, nor were they rapists nor murderers. Not that ISKCON didn't have members who did do those things, but of the GBC members it was only Kirtanananda and Bhavananda. And even then they did not do anything illegal until after 1977 when ACBS died.
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ACB used snuff, wore expensive Rolex watches and drove around in a gold Mercedes Benz for a start.
He used snuff occaisionally, when asked about that he said he needed it to stay awake all night to do his writing. Which in fact is what he usually was doing every night. He gave away his watches and all gifts, he didn't own any cars, other people would rent cars when he visited and they would drive him around. He had many wealthy followers who would shower him with gifts. But he gave them all away.
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He may have started out in a delapidated shop front but he soon got accustomed to being accomodated in the best and most expensive hotels and country manors transversing the world in his private jet ala Siddhaswarupananda.
He almost never stayed in hotels, only at the very beginning of his return to India. He would always stay in peoples homes or his own rooms in the temples. He did not have a private jet and only travelled commercial air.
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ACB infact shamelessly courted celebrities, and declared the Beatles to have done more for KC than his other disciples
I have never heard that. Can you show some source? He didn't court the Beatles. George Harrison wanted to meet ACBS after he heard about what was going on in San Francisco with the Mantra Rock concerts. The Beatles had just come back from India and George and John (not Paul and Ringo) were into continuing their yoga paths. After George met ACBS and introduced him to John then John invited ACBS and a handful of his disciples to live at his estate "Tittenhurst Park". Which is what they did. John wanted them to build a temple on his property but after a while Yoko didn't want John involved so closely and ACBS left. Other then that ACBS never met any world famous celebrities, never. In India occasionally an Indian celebrity would want to meet him, but there is no record of him trying to meet any celebrity. How many celebrities do you think he met? ISKCON has never had many celebrity followers outside of India. There are a few celebrities who are famous in their own countries who became followers, from countries like Brazil, Venezuela, Italy, Spain, Nigeria, South Africa, India, etc. But as far as world famous celebrities the 2 beatles are the only ones ACBS ever met, well besides Alan Ginsberg, but he wasn't as famous back then as he is now, and it was Ginsberg and the beatles who sought out ACBS not the other way around. In fact the only other world famous follower I can think of is Hayley Mills and her son rock star Crispian Mills. Chrissie Hynde is a gaudiya vaishnava, but she became one long after ACBS died and she is a disciple of Narayana Maharaja.
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Under ACBs guidance Hare Krishnas were considered to be out for money to the extent of being public nuisances and with very good reason. He fully condoned deceptive fundraising, devotees dressing up as Santa Claus for example, and badgering members of the public creating gauntlets at airports and other public places.
You are mistaken. When it was brought to his attention that some decepetive fundraising was going on he told them to stop. "Gauntlets"? That wasn't how it was done. There would be one or two people per terminal.
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ACB was aware of debaunchery in the temples, abuse of wives and child molestation. He denounced Tamal Krishna for cutting down a tulsi tree but he didn't do a thing against the child molestors that he was aware of deeming that the disgusting affair should be handled internally.
He was aware that people were having affairs, what could he do about it? He did what he could to stop abuse of all kinds. But he was an 80 year old man who could not totally control what a society of thousands of people were doing. The child abuse that happened in ISKCON if you read about it occured almost all after he died, in the late 1970s-80's. He was against even spanking children and forbid it. When child abuse was reported to him he kicked the offender out of ISKCON. There are allegations that ACBS did nothing, but those allegations have never been accompanied by any proof.
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As for being an adherent to GV ACB was highly critical of GV referring to his godbrothers among other things non human. It is said that he resolved this before he died, but it this really just another historical convenience neccessary to perptuate that ACB is a saint and keep the KC religion intact. GV wanted nothing to do with him until ISKCON took off and began making money.
When you say GV (gaudiya vaishnavism) what you mean to say is GM (gaudiya math). GV is the name of the whole religion, GM is the name of the organization which ACBS's guru started. Yes he was critical of the GM. But that didn't start until ACBS started temples in India and then members of the GM would try to bad talk ACBS to his disciples in order to gain his wealthy followers. That is well documented.
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As for not wanting worship I have yet to see a picture of an ISKCON temple where there is not a deity of ACB seperate to the altar to be bowed down to. At the Sydney temple there is a large, I guess probably life sized cast likeness presiding over the temple room that it is expected that one bow down and offer their obeisances to and a pair of his shoes in a glass case. Unlike the altar which is closed outside cermonies ACB can be worshipped at any time.
That is the tradition in many Indian religions. See this link [
www.akshardham.com] and also this one [
www.akshardham.com] And those statues (made of resin) were not made until years after ACBS died.
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It is very well to criticise Siddha, you are not about to see me defending him, but let's not forget who granted him his validation as a guru in the first instance.
ACBS didn't "raise" Siddha. Siddha was in ISKCON for a short periiod.