Quote

I have always felt very fond of you, you know that deep down inside. You know me but you don't know me.

I don't want this thread to get derailed or locked for any foolishness posting the definition of dildos now. emntk is my [b:f54fdf9cbf]very[/b:f54fdf9cbf] dear friend and I think that you know who emntk is too.

I know exactly who you are I am sure of it - there is no way that there are two people on Earth that talk in that exact same way and use the same phrases and have the same sense of humor.

I am certain you are on the Gold Coast and still a member of SOI no more riddles and no more hiding check your private messages and answer this one please - you can check that they have been received and I know that you got the last one.

I can tell you one thing for sure:

I am crying right now.

Listen with the sense of clarity, not emotion.

I won't be posting for awhile, I have to go.

Well I'm crying too and it has upset my record of nine days straight without since I left the cult. :cry: I sugguest that you could call that even.

Quote
just-googling

Quote
zelig
I know this is off topic, but it is too funny not to share with all of you; googling, cultr, kid rama, quotesman, emnk (sp?), truthiness, et al.... 8)

[howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com]

ON A LIGHTER NOTE: :lol: :lol: :lol: This is hilarious! And as the saying goes "Laughter is the best medicine"... certainly feels psychologically more healing than whipping yourself for falling asleep before chanting the dreaded 16 rounds!

Thanks Googling for making my post relevant! :lol:
The fur is flying here. I have yet to read it all.
CultR lady - it is so nice to have a broad on the boards. This is a complement. 8)

Check out the thread called [b:6c9bd71595]Article by former New Age Teacher.[/b:6c9bd71595] I certainly do not agree with everything written, but it is an interesting discussion, and some very fine points are brought up.
[board.culteducation.com]

CultR- This website is not aesthetically pleasing, but it gives one an idea of how to research bogus guru claims. You will see a lot of similarities with SOI. Don't get put off by the skeptic slant -- there is some good info here.
[bdsteel.tripod.com]

The following is an interesting tidbit that parallels Siddha. It should be familiar. Siddha was very critical of this guru. Takes one to know one.
[bdsteel.tripod.com]

[My comments are in square brackets:]
”From the beginning of his Mission, SSB [Satya Sai Baba] has often stated that he has a human body, which is subject to human suffering. He has also made contradictory statements of superhuman capabilities and, as alleged Omnipotent Avatar [Siddha claimed to be God’s representative, pure and infallible devotee, friend and lover of krishna], he has tended to attribute his illnesses and most of his accidents and injuries to a divine need to take on the suffering of his followers, In such circumstances, it is understandable that many devotees quickly become quite agitated if their "Avatar" displays any actual evidence of mortal suffering or weakness – [Remember the letters in the 80’s claiming the same by Siddha – that he took on our karma – or that we neglected to care for him or donate enough money to him – that we were in grave spiritual danger because of this, that we were responsible for VD’s head injury, and who knows what goes on now, etc…….]

Quote
corboy

Two Cultures: New Age and Science/Skepticism

Kara MClaren has observations about New Age culture that may ring a bell for some of us:

'The problem is this: In my culture, you can't openly attack anyone or their character, [i:6c9bd71595]and you can't use truly focused skepticism[/i:6c9bd71595]. In my culture, personal attacks are considered an example of emotional imbalance (where your emotions control you), while deep skepticism is considered a form of mental imbalance (where your intellect controls you). Both behaviors are serious cultural no-nos, because both the emotions and the intellect are considered troublesome areas of the psyche that do very little but keep one away from the (supposedly) true and meaningful realm of spirit.'

The worst insult was to be called a “mental speculator” – so we turned off our critical thinking skills! If we questioned anything, we were called “envious” or “gossips”.

Quote
corboy
'As i think about it, i think basic New Agey beliefs are ok, just as long as they don't go too far. Then real harm can set in.'

If Karla McLaren (the former New Age teacher) is right, and if rejection of critical thought is an essential part of New Age culture [or SOI culture], then right away, you've jettisoned the one thing that can help you determine whether your commitment to New Age belief 'has gone too far.'

[b:6c9bd71595][i:6c9bd71595]Suspension of critical thinking and actual rejection of critical thinking may be two different things.[/i:6c9bd71595][/b:6c9bd71595]

Suspension of critical thinking is what we do when we [i:6c9bd71595]pretend to forget [/i:6c9bd71595]that Star Trek is 'only' a TV show (or movie). We thus enjoy Star Trek, but we dont get trapped in the story. A tiny part of us is aware that we are not on the SS Enterprise, even while another part of us is experiencing the story as though we 'are' aboard the SS Enterprise.

It is a very different matter when someone forgets that Star Trek is 'only a story' and they take the fantasy for reality and get trapped in the fantasy.

Critical thinking (and also the ability to tell the difference between metaphor and reality) have been jettisoned (or never acquired).

You're without meme testers and while you experience the world as marvellous and wonderful (as a little child does) you have also become vulnerable, and exploitable, just as that small child is.

Cult activity begins when someone or something pushes us to first suspend, *and then* (this is the crucial step!) [i:6c9bd71595]reject or disable [/i:6c9bd71595]critical thinking altogether.

Once you've rejected or disabled critical thinking, you have NO way to re-evaluate whether a situation is good for you or has begun to harm you--or persons you are with.

Its like finding yourself walled into a room with no doors or windows from which to make a non-traumatic exit.

If you've merely suspended critical thinking, you can still locate an exit door and make an fairly non-traumatic exit. But you usually need to be healthy, reasonably well rested and no under heavy influence from drugs, alcohol, trance or group think for your critical thinking to be suspended, yet still 'locatable'

To escape from a mental room in which critical thinking has been totally rejected or disabled, you either have to be rescued by someone who kicks the wall down from outside, or you have to kick a hole in the wall yourself--or get thrown out of the group.

These forms of exit are traumatic as hell. So is the third option--getting kicked out by the group that has conned you into rejecting critical thought.

Critical thinking is like a good pocket knife. You don’t need to have it in your hand, blade open, all the time, but its smart to always have it within reach, because you never know when you'll need it.

Quote
zelig
The following is an interesting tidbit that parallels Siddha. It should be familiar. Siddha was very critical of this guru. Takes one to know one.
[bdsteel.tripod.com]

[My comments are in square brackets:]
”From the beginning of his Mission, SSB [Satya Sai Baba] has often stated that he has a human body, which is subject to human suffering. He has also made contradictory statements of superhuman capabilities and, as alleged Omnipotent Avatar [Siddha claimed to be God’s representative, pure and infallible devotee, friend and lover of krishna], he has tended to attribute his illnesses and most of his accidents and injuries to a divine need to take on the suffering of his followers, In such circumstances, it is understandable that many devotees quickly become quite agitated if their "Avatar" displays any actual evidence of mortal suffering or weakness – [Remember the letters in the 80’s claiming the same by Siddha – that he took on our karma – or that we neglected to care for him or donate enough money to him – that we were in grave spiritual danger because of this, that we were responsible for VD’s head injury, and who knows what goes on now, etc…….]

Satya Sai Baba's suffering seems to be a little different from JG's, it seems... I gather that Sai Baba seems to be claiming that he is taking on the same physical illnesses of his disciples in order to save them from that same physical suffering. (E.g. if one disciple got earache, Sai Baba would experience the earache to save the disciple from the pain.)

I am not exactly sure what Jagag Guru is claiming, but the impression is that he is suffering as a result of the sins committed by his disciples, with some vague notion that he would be saving these disciples and taking them back to God (I suppose???) ... Considering that JG has many times condemned his disciples to hell, it seems a bit redundant for him to be suffering in this way???

I am not sure what ACB's take on this subject matter was - he probably mentioned this topic somewhere in his many purports, but I cannot remember anything to this effect. Anybody out there with any more info on this subject is welcome to post here....

:arrow:

:arrow: There was an incident that took place in about 1978 or thereabouts at the Krishna Kolau farm on the island of Kauai. The farm at Kolau was set in a little valley next to a creek and there was a bridge overlooking this little valley. One night some local boys were out having fun and they fired a shot (or two) from this bridge down into the farm compound. This sparked off some major reactions from the devotees who were living on the farm (and there were quite a few people living there at that time).

They started arming themselves with rifles and hand-guns and patroling the compound 24 hours a day. There was a strong feeling of paranoia and that "[b:c3889667ab]they[/b:c3889667ab] were out to get us." Nobody seemed to take the affair into context - that it could be merely a couple of drunk locals who were out "having a good time."

Fortunately the ATF never got involved (as in the famous Davidian episode), and the whole incident blew over after a week or so. But some comparisons can be made to the Branch Davidians in several ways:

:arrow: Each group had a charismatic leader who claimed to be "Jesus himself" or "God's representative as good as God" - David Koresh / Jagag Guru.

:arrow: Each group spent many hours each day praying and studying scriptures.

:arrow: Each group tended to isolate themselves from the rest of society and get the paranoid ideation that "[b:c3889667ab]they[/b:c3889667ab] were out to get them."

:arrow: The Davidians were indoctrinated by David Koresh who gave them the order to watch war movies... The Krishnas nowadays become indoctrinated by "Little Ninjai" - a violent cartoon that depicts them as the good guys and everybody else as "the bad guys."

:?:

Quote

For Zelig: logial end play question: Where does the Wizard derive his power from which gives him the power to rule his kingdom, and under what authority does his kingdom accept his rule?

The Power of Ignorance

Once ...

Quote

Once you've rejected or disabled critical thinking, you have NO way to re-evaluate whether a situation is good for you or has begun to harm you--or persons you are with.

The stifling power of ignorance takes hold of every facet of our lives and eventually we are at the mercy of a mechanism of inevitability.

Your brain cells become your prison cells

The first time that I ever heard about Sai Baba was when I was taking a Bhakti course at a disciple's home in Brisbane. The disciple Gayatri said that Baba was a dangerous mystic. When pressed as to whether such powers as he claimed did actually exist she said that Siddha had instructed that they do [there is a booklet on the subject that proves JG does claim that mystic powers exist] but that they are not spiritual.

She told a story that a follower in Hawaii had encountered a man at a class that had pressed her on the subject of whether Baba was demoniac. Apparently she tried to answer the question in various non-condemning ways, that he has different beliefs etc. but the guy wouldn't accept these answers and kept repeating the question to the extent that she finally snapped at him "Yes he's demoniac." This follower then widely alledged that she had been attacked by Baba through a dream and only saved by calling out to JG to save her. We were instructed that to think about such things as Baba was the same as thinking about ghosts and that if we did we would attract them and fall victim to their scary powers :evil:

According to Gayatri the difference between Baba's claims was that it is not possible to take on physical sufferring, only karmic sufferring, that living in this world is about sufferring and that the point of accepting JG and becoming a disciple was that on initiation he absorbed our bad karma making it possible for us to go back to Krishna.

I have head stories that apparently to touch the spiritual masters feet can transfer some of your bad karma to them and that is why their feet and their shoes are so revered. I am sure we have all seen their shoes on the altars now and then. Apparently Bhaktivedanta Swami was often approached by people as he sat meditating or speaking so desperate to touch his feet and be saved that he used to conceal them in his robes. As far as I know he never instructed that this was incorrect so it would appear that he actually believed it. I am pretty sure though that the idea of the spiritual master taking all your bad karma on initiation is a new development on philosophy. I can't recall any scriptural reference to it. It seems an obvious and very handy ideal to get people to work like slaves and stay in line despite wild eccentricities and constant chastisements.

On Sai Baba apparently ACB said of his claim that he was Krishna that he was just a "wooly bear" and that Krishna being all attractive would never appear in such a form as him.

Zelig there is some great information there.

Quote
just-googling
They started arming themselves with rifles and hand-guns and patroling the compound 24 hours a day. There was a strong feeling of paranoia and that "[b:4a58a14ca9]they[/b:4a58a14ca9] were out to get us." Nobody seemed to take the affair into context - that it could be merely a couple of drunk locals who were out "having a good time."

It is certainly a frightening, and I believe very real prospect that one day we will be watching SOI on the news. If not it will be due more to good luck than good management.

I watched a documentary on Waco quite some time ago and it was pointed out that the amount of weapons that they had there which was quite extensive was apparently not illegal. I do not know much about American gun laws, but here some forms of guns are banned, including semi automatics, it is quite difficult for an individual to legally justify owning a gun and it would be impossible to stockpile weapons within the law.

[u:4a58a14ca9][b:4a58a14ca9]This is information that no-one wants.[/b:4a58a14ca9][/u:4a58a14ca9] Maybe no one here does either, although here it is...You may think that I am crazy, but this is what I know to be the truth and personally witnessed.

On 16th Novemeber I travelled up to Queensland to speak with the police about child abuse and neglect. I spent about 12 hours with detectives. You can read what I told them exactly at www.soiawareness.blogspot.com

Prior to this on the 6th November I was contacted by Logan Police in Queensland. The main point of this contact was to threaten me to take my website down. The police officer could not provide me with any law that I was breaking or name any charge that could be laid against me if I refused. Despite making numerous threats he told me later that week there was no substance to any of the complaints made against me and no basis to lay charges. (You may recall me writing on allegations of stalking and the reasons why I considered these to be totally bogus, well according to the police they are also)

Logan police is absolutely nowhere near where Brendon Rice or Radha Krishna das who both went to the police live. According to the officer I spoke to RKd did all the talking and he felt that the situation of a grown man having someone else talk for him was very strange. It prompted him when they mentioned that I was 'persecuting' them for their religious beliefs to ask questions about the nature of such beliefs to which RKd replied that they 'just practiced meditation.'

Ok I want to keep this brief so that is the basic background. The point that I want to make is that there is a member of SOI, his career choice was made on the direct instruction on JG. He is stationed to the best of my knowledge very close to Logan. He would certainly be close enough to know the local police in the area. He is actively involved in recruiting new members for SOI and refers to his house as a centre. On several occassions I have witnessed this officer of the law advising on how to avoid prosecution for breaking the law in not sending the children to school and advising and offerring assistance on how to illegally obtain weapons.

On 16th November I went to Logan police also to give them the statement I had offerred and which they had expressed great interest in receiving. The detectives in Brisbane had phoned Logan that day and knew all about what had been going on there, so someone had obviously filled them in. When I got there they refused to take any statement. I was told they would not even talk about the cult, that they had no idea of any complaint against me, no idea of any contact with me - I was as far as they were concerned person non grata. The officer I spoke to took a copy of the statement that I had made in Brisbane - which he had no reason to have and Brendon's phone number which I am sure he used to advise him of what was going on - eventhough he had just claimed to have never heard of him. The following day when I went to the house the two police that came with me from another station also phoned Logan and were told they had no idea of any complaint against me.

Whatever has been going on with Qld police to me does not look good - and you would think that they would be interested in pursuing the detailed information that I have to give them - but apparently not.

On being brainwashed by Ninjai here are two quotes from the Ninjai forum by the 'Ninjai Gang' relating to pacifism - which they caution on the main page (hover on the title Ninjai is not a Murderer...) "Unfortunately some fans of Ninjai have been infected by the disease of pacifism which leads to innocent people not being protected.."

Please let none of us lose sight of the fact that this self righteous 'reasoning' is attatched to a cartoon which despite it's violence is essentially aimed at children.

[forums.ninjai.com]

Quote

To call someone a murderer who defends his own life against someone who is threatening his life or the lives of others is in itself the sickest form of violence because it is a breeding ground for cowardice. Bullies and demons thrive in such an atmosphere. Let us repeat, to kill a murderer is not a murder, it is justice. It not only punishes the evil-doer, it prevents that demon from engaging in future acts of violence against innocent people.

[forums.ninjai.com]

Quote

...They don’t like to see people suffering. A righteous warrior also feels the same way. A righteous warrior is not hard-hearted. In fact a righteous warrior is motivated out of love—i.e. out of a very soft heart. A righteous warrior is motivated to protect the innocent from those who would hurt them. A righteous warrior is like a mother, father, friend or husband who wants to protect someone they love.

But a warrior is not in ignorance. A pacifist is in ignorance. A pacifist fails to understand that there are people with evil motives and hard hearts who don’t care if they cause innocent people to suffer. A righteous warrior not only knows that such demons exist, he is motivated out of love to prevent them from doing harm to others.