What value has scripture when tulsi swears on it?
Scripture has no value in a corrupt system. It is good for decoration.
And what is the value of it when the brahmans who teach them do not have moral codes?
Oh let me give a class in between few drug smuggling transactions and money laundering.
I think the gita is also thick enough to protect butler from the imaginary bullets of his envious ennemies.
No need to quote scripture to the blind and deaf.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scripture has no value in a corrupt system. It is
> good for decoration.

You have to be consistent with your decoration ...

> And what is the value of it when the brahmans who
> teach them do not have moral codes?

No yama no bother...

> Oh let me give a class in between few drug
> smuggling transactions and money laundering.

And make some anartha or aparadha..

Why very bad thing still happen to the best sect in the world? Dead diver, etc????

> I think the gita is also thick enough to protect
> butler from the imaginary bullets of his envious
> ennemies.

No so easy..You have to create an idol and his representatives. The sheep can't read much of the scriptures. One has to neglect logic, pramana and nyaya, samkhya. Otherwise, too inquisitive will overthrow this system ...basing on the scriptures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 01:08AM by Culthusiast.

Listen I am not an atheist. I entered this reality with the god program engraved into me. Not that it was injected in me by my family.
I was inherently attracted to a higher being.
I know that something greater is operating this very complex truman show and we are all actors.
Something does not add up. In all scriptures, god is always kicking the behind of the sinful. Be it invisibly like the god of the bible and koran or visibly in the earthly incarnations (Rama, Krishna, Nrshimhadeva…)
Why has the supreme most powerful lord allow iskcon and soi to go on?
To basically trash the names of the deities? Drag the name of krishna into murders, pedophilia…
Have people pose as pure devotees and exploit his name in order to use and abuse others.
How does such a powerful being watch his reputation be so tarnished.
But when they are in human form they kill left and right.
Like Balarama was pissed during the chess game and crushed the guy’s head.
He severed the head of the arrogant guru with a blade of grass.
Why give these rascals so much freedom?
Is the suffering of devotees as sweet as their love?
I guess they are right when they say do not try to understand god.
So if you are still stuck in the formalities of scripture, we are not on the same page.
I no longer blindly drink any scripture coolaids.
My personal experiences, SoI and Iskcon have greatly damaged my faith.
Why were these allowed to happen?
And why should I be fine that this is god’s will?

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen I am not an atheist. I entered this reality
> with the god program engraved into me. Not that it
> was injected in me by my family.

Reincarnation, remembered tendencies can be an explanation. Genetic heritage. Perhaps science will one day prove whether it will detect the phenomenon of genetic code overwriting on the basis of experience, memory, behavior or tendencies. To some extent. Or maybe never. In general, however, there are symptoms of at least the genetic-energy heritage.

> Why has the supreme most powerful lord allow
> iskcon and soi to go on?

This is an existential-philosophical question independent of religion, belief, or cults. The real, physical world shows contradictory symptoms and tendencies. Some people are capable of final sacrifices, such as M. Kolbe or J. Korczak (death with children in the gas chamber), others can kill for 100 dollars. People love their dogs and cats, but feed them with the bodies of cows that either die quickly, or pathological slaughterhouse workers completely unnecessarily break the legs of little calves in anger. Dogs from the shelter can appreciate the new owner, show a lot of faithfulness, but suddenly with some form of reminiscence or recalling the shelter trauma they can end up in each other's throats or tear out their eyes with their teeth.

No wonder then that there are cults or organizations around religion, where the goal is to be spiritual love, but it comes to regular organisational system abuse.

One way or another, symptoms of CONSENT to these phenomena are present. In the name of freedom, free choice of being? A system of individual freedoms in an organized mechanism. Freedom of participation in this system or compulsion? Basic questions ...

And religious situations seem more confusing. Let us take the Christian religion.

An independent preacher, Jesus of Nazareth, teaches and arouses religious animosity among the Pharisees (one religious party) and the Sadducees (the other religious party, with the body of the Sanhedrin). Popularity threatens the power of the occupant (Pontius Pilate, the Romans) and a bit of an indigenous one (Herod). Ultimately, breaking the law (convicted twice), he is crucified on the inspiration of one of the parties - the Sadducees, and denunciations of the other dichotomously hostile - Pharisees .... In this religion, the Son of God is a victim of this system. Fraction interpretations vary. Innocent. God the Father makes a sacrifice according to some, according to others it is nonsense .. Etc.


> To basically trash the names of the deities? Drag
> the name of krishna into murders, pedophilia…
> Have people pose as pure devotees and exploit his
> name in order to use and abuse others.

Facade and organizational convenience to exploit your fellow men?

> He severed the head of the arrogant guru with a
> blade of grass.
> Why give these rascals so much freedom?
> Is the suffering of devotees as sweet as their
> love?
> I guess they are right when they say do not try to
> understand god.

> So if you are still stuck in the formalities of
> scripture, we are not on the same page.

Any conceptual complexity requires formality. Whether it is real or not. Mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering, religion, psychology, biology and so on ... or law. When someone wants to fight e.g. a fierce battle for his rights, it sometimes turns out that the legislative mess throws obstacles to his feet, if e.g. in law a given aspect or thing is named with 5 different words.


> I no longer blindly drink any scripture coolaids.

Neither any serious inquirer

> My personal experiences, SoI and Iskcon have
> greatly damaged my faith.

At some point, me too, but you have to move on. As a search for the Truth, I am faced with the errors of worship, my own lack of seriousness, the effects of my own relationships with my family, and so on. Some people do it, others commit suicide, etc.

> Why were these allowed to happen?
> And why should I be fine that this is god’s will?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:48AM by Culthusiast.

And let us not forget the Buddha who questioned the infallibility of the Vedas ...

Great scenes with Conan Barbarian:

Humility and awareness of your own strength
[www.youtube.com]

"come to me my child", faith

[www.youtube.com]

"that must be paradise"

[www.youtube.com]

"to hell with you" prayer

[www.youtube.com]

beheading:

[www.youtube.com]

There is no errors in this process as there is no right way to practice it. No success is assured but yet success and promise of success is there at every step. All other systems, like law, mathematics, biology etc admit to rational limitations in the process. I.e. realism, humilty. The gaudiya process just equals blame with the practioner never admitting the process is flawed, which any rational person can see if they ask the right questions and continue to get the naive response of "just, vhant, serve, surrender, and all will be revealed...". All what will be revealed? Your swarup as a manjari? We have already shown this is a 500 year old concoction like Mormons etc. No history, no substance. Pure fiction.

Comparing spiritual ideas with science and rational thought and deduction is like comparing apples to bananas. One is an evolving self correcting process of errors, theories and systemic understanding,the other is whatever u make it up to be. That's what gaudiya vaishnavism is. A make believe choose you own adventure story. You can be as serious as you want about it, doesn't make it any less of a joke.

Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupanandas beloved hindu disciple, Tusli Gabbard:

Gabbard didn’t object on the air to Hannity’s claim. And she didn’t have to. She’s fostered a cult of personality among her supporters, who either refuse to acknowledge that Gabbard holds right-wing positions or, more often, go on to adopt those positions themselves. Lately, Gabbard’s pivot to cancel-culture pundit, complete with undertones of worries about anti-white “racism”, has inspired her followers to take on the same pet issues. They’ve gone from iconoclastic left-leaning upstarts to “American patriots” without a blink.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/americas/north-america/us/2022/01/is-tulsi-gabbard-the-gops-dark-horse

Meanwhile, her demographic base is doing well. Basically, Tusli appeals to fanatics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll8fGGvCSYU

The story of the Mela's is that vishnu dropped some droplets of "amrita" when the demons and demigods were fighting. The drops of the nectar of immortality dropped on, of all places, you guessed it—India. Now a million hindus clobber to drink the nectar of Covid Fatality, I mean Immortality for the next 40+ days. Jai!

Those hindus who go to such events are fanatics. Those that are responsible and skip it are in fact "dharmic" for what it's worth. God did not cry over spilled milk (ameita), nor should you.

Meanwhile, Butler, who has apparently returned to the eternal abode as a 12 year old Hokie Pokie manjari is giving his blessings from a distance. As he did on earth, so in heaven. Haribol! And Aloha... Butler established himself as the hidden kind of Kahalui (his little Goloka) years ago as he had his first-class disciples chasing all the envious miscreants in his Maha boat to keep his ocean of milk free and clear of any demonic influence. With the Sudarshan chakra of his motorboat propeller, he took care of teaching the mlecchaas a lesson.

Can anyone confirm that Butler has left the building?

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.newstatesman.com/world/americas/north-america/us/2022/01/is-tulsi-gabbard-the-gops-dark-horse

Well, it's not surprising, it just folds up a bit. Chris Butler's parents' left-wing views. Perhaps the conflict with the mother is another legend. Affinity with the Left-center Sanders. The legend of the Butler brothers hanging the VietCong flag at the University of Honolulu. IGG party. Pivotal Extreme Maneuvers Mike Gabbard ...

>
> Can anyone confirm that Butler has left the
> building?

This is an important topic. The members of SIF Poland have long unofficially admitted that they are worried about why the Guru does not speak up. It will not be well received, as it turns out that he is long gone. Personally, I wouldn't expect anything good from the "old faith" around Chris Bulter. Repression, hypocrisy, etc.

I remember how people in Poland had great enthusiasm and great faith in the process and Chris Butler. After that, they tolerated the rude and scandalous behavior of leaders for a long time, having nothing to do with compassionate sublime spirituality ...

After all, many of them never personally saw the Guru or asked him a single question ... After decades of devotion and service. Surely holy poly J.B.Midget would not see any problem....He's ocean of empathy of course..bua hahahah



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2022 04:53AM by Culthusiast.

Why would they hide the disappearance? Are they afraid people would suddenly stop slaving for wailana?
I have doubts about it.
You think they will not glorify the disappearance of their idol and let him leave this in secret?
Hide the passing of the founder of the cult of personality?
It would be a great loss to have this expert virologist leave during a pandemic.
After all we spent all our lives getting ready for this. Possibly more ready for a pandemic than to go back to Krishna.
It is sad to say but looking at Iskcon, butler is still one of the best of the worse.
It seems as though it will be hard these days to find clean non corrupt spiritual settings.
The famous saying at SoI:
“We are all in a mental hospital. But devotees are well situated. They are here to get well”.
This is all SoI will ever be. A glorified, spiritual mental hospital.
The kind of mental hopsital you enter to get cured and up acquiring some new mental illnesses such as hypochondria, germaphobia, ptsd…
butler is like a parent to devotees. Even grown ass “brahman” look up to him like a dad. Waiting for their formula bottle to suck on in the form of INSTRUCTIONS.
Has anybody been raised by dysfunctional parents?
Well this is what is happening at SoI.
mamma wailana and pappa buter are not the best parents you could ask for.
Imagine if you had a parent that fined you for late or salty dishes?
If they blamed you for random accidents such as walking on glass or getting hit by on the head. For getting a sunburn…
It would make a good book or movie such as mommy dearest. Everybody would pitty you.
The only difference is that in the material realm, the dysfunctions are recognized, studied…
There are many books on toxic parents and the damage they create.
You are allowed to label unfit parents. Try to cut contact with them.Understand what was wrong with them and how they messed you up.
However the guru is seen as PERFECT no matter what. He is the parent that can get away with murder. The one that can never be judged.
He is the toxic parent you are never supposed to leave because his abuse is mercy. His abuse is your medicine. His abuse is what will get you closer to god.
Noone will ever link the devotees anguish to the abuse of guru and other devotees.
Because it is ALWAYS your fault.
The fact that people who chant are still making progress, shows me that the path is not 10000 percent bogus.
This was my experience. In the midst of the drama and trauma, I was still gaining something.
Spiritual life is not meant to be trauma bonding and narcissistic abuse.
But this is the version we had embraced and many are still embracing.
SoI mental hospital patients unfortunately will never get a proper diagnosis. All their psych teachers are clueless because they ONLY have knowledge of the vedas.
Blind faith and rituals with zero knowledge of the human psyche.
SoI is as disgusting as any materialiastic mentality out there.
Only the Elite and extremely well balanced people do well and taste the nectar of their polluted paradise.
The damaged will just get more damaged. Used and abused by the demonic sides of other members.
Even when butler crosses the ocean of soya milk, the Elitism will go on for sure imho.
When all the senior Elites leave, they will find new personalities to worship such as Tulsi.
These poor souls would be so lost without humans they can worship. After all the dieties are not enough. They MUST worship personalities within the cult too.
And always admire how advanced devotee X and Y is. That we will never get there themselves.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would they hide the disappearance? Are they
> afraid people would suddenly stop slaving for
> wailana?

For various contributing reasons. A) The cult is built on the basis of the cult of personality. If this individual is lost, there is a risk of the sect disintegrating. Unless habits or patterns of benefit prevail. B) money transfers from many poor people can improve the budget. Quantity is also quality, as Stalin used to say. It is cynical that such a poor couple of Polish devotees work hard in the UK and send the last money to their guru "for medicines" and the whole cream lives in villas, some of which are on Mokulua Drive ... Ah, these security flaws in the systems. They were not very thorough and vigilant.

> Hide the passing of the founder of the cult of
> personality?

At least until the next one emerges. One of the interesting statements of the great sage J.B. Midget aka Balakhilya das was that "children must be educated so that someone later teaches". Wow ... How does this relate to a self-effulgent guru? It is rather an attempt to maintain the historical duration of the cult.

> It is sad to say but looking at Iskcon, butler is
> still one of the best of the worse.

There are many who left and went to the traditional lines.

> The kind of mental hopsital you enter to get cured
> and up acquiring some new mental illnesses such
> as hypochondria, germaphobia, ptsd…

Sure. Cute nurse sisters with aids syringe. "Where is Radha in the Gopada Govinda Rama mantra." "Gaurang's Mantra will wash away your fatigue" - and Jesus was not supposed to be a doormat. "Caiytanya taught karma yoga" and so on and "on to hell".

PTSD? Sure.

> butler is like a parent to devotees. Even grown
> ass “brahman” look up to him like a dad. Waiting
> for their formula bottle to suck on in the form of
> INSTRUCTIONS.

It can be caused by pressure, energy, a whole system of persuasion. Treated with haloperidol or ... yoga-nidra. In the US Army, PTSD was treated with yoga-nidra. Satyasananda Saraswati. Dead in 2009.


> Imagine if you had a parent that fined you for
> late or salty dishes?

"Imagine all the people....."

> However the guru is seen as PERFECT no matter
> what. He is the parent that can get away with
> murder. The one that can never be judged.

It is not like that in this tradition ale there are stories and example. There is generally agreement to accept a guru who is madhyama adhikari if there is no higher option.

> He is the toxic parent you are never supposed to
> leave because his abuse is mercy. His abuse is
> your medicine. His abuse is what will get you
> closer to god.

Not exactly. Study the Gaudiya-kantahara. Other gurus.

The basis of the relationship is tadana & lalana. Affection and chastizement or vice versa. Where discipline must be motivated out of affection.

Chris Butler used the maneuver and at one point admitted himself not giving "lalan". He supplemented it with a statement that the sheep would go to their grandfather. But the sheep did not know this principle in ignorance, so they stayed ...

> This was my experience. In the midst of the drama
> and trauma, I was still gaining something.

From the point of view of psychology and religion, there is an advantage. A sense of the value of belonging to the best sect. Guarantee of salvation. Classics of religious groups. The institution of exclusive salvation. From the point of view of vedanta / Vaishnava philosophy - kirtana. Or occupational therapy in the form of helping the poor. Ayurveda doctors recommended that former SIF members be treated by "Punya" - selfless help for another human being. Plus vegetarianism - tasty oat cutlets ...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2022 07:30PM by Culthusiast.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the Sudarshan chakra of his
> motorboat propeller, he took care of teaching the
> mlecchaas a lesson.

Sure. Of course. As one of the water sports injury experts was said to have admitted - this type of wound couldn't have arisen by chance ...