For a depiction of the experience.. wonderfully terrible, or terribly wonderful... of being in a realtionship based on thought & emotional manipulation (MOL or otherwise), I just watched the following video. I suggest you watch it.

Video "Surviving Picasso"

Acknowledges with compassion for a confused boy-man, the incredible skilled seduction, the woman nearly going crazy. A prior GF of my exBF really did go loco while with him. I remember once saying to my MOL exBF "I now understand and experience why (name) went crazy when she was with you."

Whatever the MOL outcome of your male partner, you will learn some amazing lessons through the relationship.

Truly, you are NOT crazy. Yes, you are made to feel that way. And situations incite you to maybe behaving as such. The cult member's actions do not match what is said in private, in apparent all sincerity. The person CANNOT see how they are tearing you apart. Hang onto YOUR own SELF... regardless of what he says, ever so tenderly.

From communicating with other women who are currently in the situation that I was in before -- it's truly scarey to realize how much of what they tell you, is verbatim what they have been told to say.

Please be careful.
With respect and care, truly,
toni

Thank you Toni for responding with so much understanding.
Yes, I have to admit when I first met my MOL'r I mentioned to him about seeing the movie "Pleasantville"?
We then watched it together. He said ,when the color was introduced to the movie "Pleasantviller's became aware of the illusion".
My thoughts were " when will you see the color?"
By the time we broke up I couldn't ask or get answers to any of my questions without him saying he "didn't know" or of me being accused
of attacking him and/or the Mission. All I wanted was answers. Are any MOL'rs out there that would like to repond to my questions?
After all don't you want to lead others to deeper understanding or experience of "God"? Then why couldn't our questions be answered.
I was always open.

Hello all,

For the last post-er, let me remind you, or if you haven't purused this and other sites far enough back, let me tell you that in addition to the secrecy which is obviously in place because anyone on the outside would find MOL behaviors bizarre and dangerous, there are stringent confidentiality agreements which must be signed, as well as hold harmless agreements which are part of the paperwork of intensives.

The confidentiality agreement contains the following statements regarding promises not to reveal:

"The nature of the programs and practices of the MOL and the ecclesiastical business plans or programs of MOL. I agree I will not remove from the property of MOL any documents, files, books, agreements software, records, correspondence or otherwise make copies thereof , nor shall I make such materials available or permit it to be available to any third person…"

Now, can you imagine having to sign such a document to enter into a "regular" church?!!!!

The point is, there is a great deal of fear in revealing info. from the group because there are so many bases covered: shame, guilt, confusion, fear of retribution from the group, fear of legal reprocussions, etc. ect. That's for the folks who left the group. Now, the folks still participating merely think you are part of the illusion and until you "let go" enough to join in whole-heartedly, it would be pointless to tell you anyway!

I have a quote for you:

"Willful naivety is not expanded consciousness. It is constricted consciousness."

Did I get that here? Can't remember the source of that one.

Good Luck

December 5, 2004

Oblivious to the Irony

By Lisa Jones

I don't want to talk about cults -- especially my former cult -- on
this site or in e-mail. I keep getting letters, though, so I'll try to
address the topic in general terms and hope this will suffice.

Cult members are usually nice people. They mean well. But any group
that claims to have all the answers for your life should be rigorously
scrutinized.

Your enlightenment, salvation, or worth does not depend on your
involvement with a particular group or organization. No matter how "liberating" the teachings of a group may sound, if the group fosters emotional dependence on the group itself (telling you "we're the one true sangha," etc.) run and don't look back.

If a friend or co-worker says "Ever since I joined this group, my life
has gotten much better," be cautious. Members of cults have learned to
re-frame their lives in terms of the group and its teachings. All life-events
(good or bad) are looked at as opportunities to deepen one's involvement with the group, and thereby become "more enlightened." When you hear
testimonials from group members, pay attention to how often they praise the group and its leaders, and how they attribute their own happiness and success to involvement with the group.

When people say "I am the organization" a red flag should go up. Cult
members are taught to merge their personal identity with the group
identity. Any criticism of the group, then, becomes a personal attack.If it feels like a member of a group is trying to "sell" you on the group,
that's exactly what's happening. The price is your freedom of mind and it's too high to pay regardless of how many "benefits" you are promised.

Selling does not mean, however, that a cult member is deliberately
trying to con you. Members of cults are not consciously aware of their emotional dependence and have learned to dismiss or ignore critical information about the group. Members usually have to keep selling the group to themselves and to other people as a way of reinforcing or justifying their emotional dependence on the group.

Be extremely cautious around groups that use "lovebombing" -- excessive displays of warmth, kindness and concern -- to get you to "overcome your mistrust" and ignore your qualms about the group. If a friend says "You can trust this group and this guru because you trust me," do your own investigation.

Does the group provide full financial disclosure? Are there dozens of
negative news reports about the group? Does the group appear on cult
watch lists? Are dissent and debate of policies and beliefs welcome?

When questioned about negative information, cult members will likely
offer a defensive rationalization: "There may be some bad things about our group but we're trying to make it better. Don't be swayed by our critics who don't understand our noble mission. They are unfair to us because they are jealous of what we have."

In short: Beware of groups that appeal to emotion or "tolerance" to
override your suspicions. "Trust us because we're nice and we mean well," is not a valid resolution to informed concerns about the group.

Cult members aren't stupid. In fact, studies show that they are often
intelligent and more likely than other people to be open to new experiences and take personal risks, especially if they are in a period of
transition such as starting college, losing a job or ending a marriage.

Cult groups exploit this openness and seeking spirit. Some groups
misrepresent themselves -- claiming, for instance, that they are a
humble, informal gathering of people who care about world peace when in fact they are a multibillion-dollar religio-political corporation. But the
central deception propagated by all cults is the lie that members need the
group.

Through "fellowship," "guidance," and "training," cults groom "deployable
agents," people who have internalized the message of the cult so deeply
that their self-interest and the cult's interests are one and the same. This
is why it's so hard to leave a cult after you've been a member for years
-- it's hard to sort out what's genuine religious faith, what's
cult-serving programming and what's "you."

Cults make it all very simple, black and white. Cults regard people who
have left the group as traitors, betrayers, deluded ones or enemies. You're either with us or against us. Cults do not recognize the possibility
that a reasonable, healthy person might choose to dissociate from the group based on honest disagreement with the group. On the contrary, anyone who has left the group is regarded with pity, contempt or anger.

It's not wacky rituals or peculiar doctrines that define a cult. Rather
it's the whole bundle of messages and peer pressure tactics that foster
dependency: Without us and our special interpretation of truth you
cannot achieve your potential. Our critics don't know what they're talking
about. If you want to be happy, you must surrender yourself to your special mission which you can understand only within the context of the group. When you and the group/leader become one, all your doubts will be resolved and you will be able to accomplish absolutely anything.

I'm fascinated by the processes of cult indoctrination because it
happened to me without my being aware of it at the time. I was completely suckered. In retrospect, I can look back and see how, step by step, little by little,my thinking was molded.

I was oblivious to the irony. For example, members of my former cult
like to trot out quotes attributed to the Head Guru saying stuff like, "Members of this group are free-thinking individuals who are self-reliant and compassionately wonderful." Then members say, "See! The Head Guru says this about us! This is who we truly are. We must strive to meet his expectations."

Quoting the Head Guru to prove anything or modeling your life to
conform to the perceived expectations of said guru is itself screamingly cultish.

As I said, oblivious to the irony.

It would be painful to think about my cult days if it weren't also, in
some measure, amusing. So that's the novel I'm writing now -- something funny about something really sad. So far, it has a happy ending.

This might help solway, or others who are concerned about both their loved one in MOL, and their own sanity for the 'terribly wonderful - wonderfully terrible' relationship. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY! The wooing, recruitment, and manipulations build upon each other so slowly. Like the image of the frog in a pan of cold water, with the temperature gradully increasing so slowly, the frog stays in until boils to death. That is how cult recruitment, thought reform, works.

I imagine you are experiencing situations similar to the following, please feel free to post your own versions. If the following happened all at once, anyone would turn and run right away. Following are some isolated memories, the following are bits from a several year period:


Early in our relationship, my exBF used to compliment me on how well I kept my home. (bigger house then!). He also was surprised that I have a home office space "Why do you need a desk?" He often cricized me for for being too intellectual, you have to release to your heart, stop thinking, that is where God and Love is. I told him my head and my heart work together.

He'd wanted me to come to his house, and organize things, and also to his office to organize his work space for him sometime. My own life, working single Mom, I didn't have time to organise his 'stuff'.

I did however carefuly spend as much time with his children as my own, as he traveled a lot with work. I exhaustingly split my time between both households after work, to see that all the kids had support w/ studies, leaving for college, etc (this when we were planning combining families). I was Queen Codependant! That IS what is required to have a 'relationship' with a cult member.

Also, at his insitence, we had a 'pact' that we would leave a daily message on each other's cell phones.

He did an Intensive that summer (MOL predated our relationship). The following month I went away w/ some friends on a preplanned trip.

Upon my returning, I noticed his house had labels on all kitchen drawers, cabinets, bedroom closet. I aked what all that was about. he responded lightly "There is a professional organizer in the Miracle of Love, I had her spend a week here pull the house together". I asked "why the labels?" His response "So we can find everything". He said she was going to organize his personal files next. I asked "aren't you concerned about having a stranger read your personal financial and other files?" His response "No. She's not going to read anything, just organize everything for me." Again I said
"She has to read it to know how to file it."

Nothing was mentioned about an MOL god conscious lifestyle in the home... but it was really odd. Why have a label beneath an obvious stack of sweaters? (to keep MOL in one's mind with subliminal messages all- the - time!)

A couple of weeks later the kitchen labels were gone. When I asked about that "Oh, the children removed them".

At the same time, his daily loving cell phone messages stopped. When I asked him about it "Oh, I just want to hear your voice directly, and I've been so busy with (whatever), so I only phone when I know you're available" Always spoken so sweety with a tender hug and kiss, that usually led to more....

With all the pressure to attend an Intensive, or a GMP workshop (or the earlier version, it had another name). Like solway, something in my gut screamed NOT to attend... I had no inclination to attend something were I was locked up and controlled with a bunch of strangers, with long hours of self revelatory confessionals. Also I was creeped out about attending an orgy, as much as he'd wanted to. He'd say "Oh, C'mon, just to try it sometime. It could be fun."

His response about my resistance to attending the Intensive "I said I'd attend a class at your church with you. If you really loved me, you would want to find out about what is so important to me, and attend an Intensive." Again, with the gentle affection...

r.e. Intensives my remarks: "That's nice that you'd attend a class at my church w/ me. I attend services only intermittently for the 'feel good' reinforcement. I don't have the time to attend a class at church, but you could do so yourself if interested. I AM intersted in learning about what is important to you, you can tell me about the Intensive & Miracle of Love. I have such limited time off work, I really do not want to spend a full precious week locked up with a bunch of strangers."

Again his response : "They won't be strangers by the time the week is over. They will become your closest friends. You move through so much, and heal on such a deep level together. The Intensive cannot be described. It's the EXPERIENCE. You'll come out a different person. It's all secret ahead of time, so that you'll go in totally Open. The love in that room is the greatest you can experience."

toni : "Thank you, but I am blessed to have a lot of love in my life already. I don't want to become a different person. I don't have enough time to spend with the current loved ones in my life, as it is. Truly, this does not appeal for me. Please, you could tell me about it, to share it with me, if that is so important to you...... If you really want 'a different person', why don't you just get an MOL girlfriend?" He told me bits n pieces (as already posted). Every 18 mos or so, he'd attend again and tell me bits more, all sounded so strange and coerced. he always valued the precious long stemmed red rose that they give at the Intensive graduation.

After a particularly 'good meditation' evening (a couple of times per week, not an Intensive), he'd come back high as a kite. Still would not reveal details of the goings on. So many secrets. MOL coaches, for a fee, will guide people on management on all intimate details of their life.

He wanted me to be involved w/ his children, providing some of the life guidelines that I gave my kids - similar ages. He insisted that I provide the guidance (for his children) that I give my own. This felt really awkward to me, violating boundaries, as I did not have an official role, so to speak, in his family structure. I don't know if this came from himself or from MOL coaching as a means to sabotage the relationship. Like the good codependant, I hesitatntly stepped in to present certain parenting-type responsbility, life direction stuff w/ his kids. Predicatadably it backfired! (duh!) Next thing I was alternately banned from his family, and then told 'come over anytime. My home is your home. I want you to feel welcome here. I want your family to move in. Your influence is so wanted there. It feels better when you're around."

By this time, I was backing off - and he was pleading w/ me to drop over his house regularly (I'd stopped doing so). Also, I'd set boundaries around his access to my home and children. the personal crazy-influence in my home was disruptive.
Lily knows all about this! sigh. so sad.

Also, for those experiencing similar :

The following tape could be replayed for a hundredfold discussions of 'issues' with "my MOLr"

When asked about his feelings about something - ANYthing.. it was always answered by

MOL BF "So-and-so says that you are manipulating me. They love me and are concerned about my welfare, so you should stop manipulating me that way."

T : "I'm just asking for your opinion. I'm not sophisticated enough to manipulate. What do YOU feel about that issue (whatever it was)?"

MOLBF : - blank face-

T : "OK, so you want me to earn the approval of (whoever). But what do YOU feel about (whatever issue)?"

MOLBF : "so-and-so says.... Yes, if you want to be with me you have to (blah blah .... whatever someone else said in relation to the topic, do 'the work', etc)

T : You persuaded me to marry you and I finally committed. I accepted, and I love and appreciate you, and willing to work on challenges. But, I have no interest in bending my life around various others who would dictate my life, or that of my children. We can discuss this and work in an equitable way with each other's life demands. But, I'm not motivated to meet some external standard, just because you subscribe to it.

MOLBF : more hugs, kisses, stroking hair.. "You are right. I love you. You should be your sparkly self, I don't want you to change. You shouldn't live for anyone else. I want you to stay as yourself. I love you as you are"

.... crazy making!...... going banananananas......

(all this from a high level executive who uses critical thinking in his professional life)

No wonder he said he said he felt his heart torn in two over the relationship.

The whole thing was so confusing.

Thanks Toni, it sounds oh so familar. I will respond later, but I am at work and my supervisor is coming in.

For those who are financially tied to "your MOLr", I'd suggest you review the protection of your financial assets.

My ex was in MOL, wealthy, single, and did NOT have a will. Easy prey for them. I used to be on his case about having a will for his children. As I realized how destructive MOL was, and unprotected his funds.. I literally had to yell at him about this issue - this even after we 'broke up' because it's such an important issue, but he still backnforthing "I love you', 'i miss you', "we have to stop seeing each other" "You're incredible" "When will I see you again?"

He finally created a trust to protect the money for his children. sheesh! Also had to do same to get through to him about some fatherhood issues, maybe the 'blocking technique' mentioned elsewhere per rickross message boards was preventing logic from soaking in, so it took my yelling in his face to get him to behave responsibly? Or maybe the information was so contrary to what MOL has them do, that the resistance was so high.

Please, protect your assets.

MOL does stress having your affairs in order. You should have a will or trust and all details should be covered regarding your finances, where you would want to be buried, what your final requests would be. They do have attorneys (MOL members) that will take care of these details for you.

In response to Toni conversations with her MOL'r.

The conversations again are so familiar. My MOL'r would respond the same when I inquired about the intensive "its a secret so you will be open". Open to what? I am not that niave. "The greatest Love? " How do you know that is what I will experience? "There will be people there to guide you." Guide me where? "To God." How do you know it is God?

Reminds me of my high school days when some friends said "oh just take a hit off this stuff its really good, it just really good pot" So I did, thinking it was just pot. It ended up being laced with PCP or somthing like that and the hallucinations followed. Maybe that is a bad analogy but that story came to mind after reading Toni's post.

Point is, I learned to ask a lot of questions. I guess I was not a good canidate after all for MOL.