Miracle of Love
Posted by:
Toni
()
Date: December 15, 2004 12:44AM
Affairs in order with the MOL attorney's help of course.
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
Toni
()
Date: December 16, 2004 12:08AM
I write this in the interest of helping others to recognize when the same is happening to them and to their loved one. I did not 'get it' while in the relationship - was all just a mass of painful confusion called 'love'.
Yes, the sexual "Lack of attachment to an unnatural monogamous relationship" is one of the ways of preventing true intimacy / connection with another. The only intimacy tolerated in a cultic group, is the facade of intimacy with the cult leader.
Yes, when we broke up (the 3rd time by him... and i was really so over the 'rollar coaster' by this time)... He said, "this tears me up inside. I feel llike my heart is literally torn into two. crying. He said it hurts to much, it makes me want to not be alive. I may be making the biggest mistake of my life." As I was leaving "When will I see you again?"
(I thought 'this is one confused person'...... and.....'I have to get away from this')
He'd also recently completed another Intensive, so who knows what the tears were really from anyway. sigh
IMHO, MOL causes way too much pain to many good people....
In the manufactured 'high', they are told "The pain and suffering is of the
Illusory world. When you come home to "G" there will be no more pain". And so they dance more and more, getting high off of their shared vitimizations, feeling safe as they follow the parroted guidelines from their 'mentors'". Love Bombing one another in their connection to the Mission.
I've since been told there is the encouragement of pornography and multi affairs w/in MOL in order "to break the attachment to another" so can spiritually move closer to "G" and "Home" Meanwhile having another (overlapping) 'real' relationship, and sobbing a lot to break his attachment to the relationship that we'd ended. I wonder, how does a brain process such multifactorial chemical overload?
Someone else wrote, was it solway? it becomes a twisted maze, a feeding frenzy, sucking everyone's true emotions out. Becoming "Ministers" to woo others to joining, and donating more and more, increasing the frenzy and thought reform.
Someone else wrote that MOL devotees are "allowed to play in the Illusion" -- is that why my exBF wanted to continue seeing me? Telling me how deeply he loves me, shortly before & after a number of public events w/ his new GF in his arms? It is so very sad.
I was nothing more than a toy of the Illusion, something to play with, as are any of us...... ???
I am speaking against the effects of the cult thought reform, not the
individuals themselves. The Individuals have truly experienced 'coercive persuasion / thought reform' emotionally, even when high functioning in their professional lives.
In fact, cults target the 'high functioning professonals' for both their increased donations, and the validation it provides for the group. e.g. Tom Cruise & others in Scientology.
Again "There are NO winners here" and again... the children raised normalizing this, having to untangle it all themselves to become functional emotional adults.... on what basis?
Now that I better understand the cultic influences, many memories flooding back. All the red flags were isolated incidences, but as I had not identified the cult negative influence while I was in the relastionship, I did not connect the dots at the time.
This twists up peoples minds and hearts. No wonder those who left MOL read these posts, and contribute minimally. They must be traumatized into speechlessness. How do they live down what they've done, to themselves and others? Yet they truly believed they were acting to themselves and others come closer to God. I hope this helps someone reading this.
There are support groups for those who recruited others into Jamestown, and happened not to be there when the day the Kool Aid came out, how do they live that down?
Lily, the MOL woman in your life, her behaviors drive your family bananas, I understand. You state she was probably a little off-balance to start. She went to an Intensive genuinely for help! Please have compassion. She was genuinely seeking help to become balanced.
And instead became further imbalanced, in support of the "Mission" and her call "Home".
It is so good that she is reading the public postings, and telling her other
MOL friends! That is not for you to be afraid of. Maybe she will seek true help now! It is a decision that she must make on her own, as part of her recovery. Making decisions FOR her, or for other cult members, only furthers their lack of self determination. Relearning to make own decisions, without dependence upon external approval, is a slow process.
Maybe she and others will slowly wake up because the postings - that is part of the purpose of this electronic hiking trail to MOL recovery. Everyone here has found it! No doubt, MOL has a retort planned for each and every statement made on the postings. It will be incredibly painful for anyone to 'wake up' to how they have been used / exploited,
when they truly trusted they were receiving support and guidance from well intentioned spiritual leaders. Just waking up to such a realization could cause a psychological / emotional break down. That is why a professional is useful to help this process - exit counseling.
In Lalich's Bounded Choice" (the book evolved from her Phd Disertation about cults), she writes that a cult member never fully loses
their noncult persona, it just becomes increasedly bound, their perceived options in life are from an increasingly narrow arena. The way to help them see out of that arena, is for the person (therapist) to find that area where the individual still perceives the range of individual choice, and slowly build on that - painstakingly slow process. The cultee will repeatedly hit their internalized walls of restricted options.
My personal concern, is truly how absolutely brilliantly the leaders of MOL have designed their programed thought reform... it hits on each and every one of the methods of thought reform. last year, when I contacted every single cult expert in the USA for information about MOL, in the interest of arranging an intervention for my exBF... they each and every one, told me that Interventions for folks in MOL were the
toughest interventions of all. IMHO, these people are really 'washed! so so sad.
As solway wrote "There are no winners here."
Yes, the sexual "Lack of attachment to an unnatural monogamous relationship" is one of the ways of preventing true intimacy / connection with another. The only intimacy tolerated in a cultic group, is the facade of intimacy with the cult leader.
Yes, when we broke up (the 3rd time by him... and i was really so over the 'rollar coaster' by this time)... He said, "this tears me up inside. I feel llike my heart is literally torn into two. crying. He said it hurts to much, it makes me want to not be alive. I may be making the biggest mistake of my life." As I was leaving "When will I see you again?"
(I thought 'this is one confused person'...... and.....'I have to get away from this')
He'd also recently completed another Intensive, so who knows what the tears were really from anyway. sigh
IMHO, MOL causes way too much pain to many good people....
In the manufactured 'high', they are told "The pain and suffering is of the
Illusory world. When you come home to "G" there will be no more pain". And so they dance more and more, getting high off of their shared vitimizations, feeling safe as they follow the parroted guidelines from their 'mentors'". Love Bombing one another in their connection to the Mission.
I've since been told there is the encouragement of pornography and multi affairs w/in MOL in order "to break the attachment to another" so can spiritually move closer to "G" and "Home" Meanwhile having another (overlapping) 'real' relationship, and sobbing a lot to break his attachment to the relationship that we'd ended. I wonder, how does a brain process such multifactorial chemical overload?
Someone else wrote, was it solway? it becomes a twisted maze, a feeding frenzy, sucking everyone's true emotions out. Becoming "Ministers" to woo others to joining, and donating more and more, increasing the frenzy and thought reform.
Someone else wrote that MOL devotees are "allowed to play in the Illusion" -- is that why my exBF wanted to continue seeing me? Telling me how deeply he loves me, shortly before & after a number of public events w/ his new GF in his arms? It is so very sad.
I was nothing more than a toy of the Illusion, something to play with, as are any of us...... ???
I am speaking against the effects of the cult thought reform, not the
individuals themselves. The Individuals have truly experienced 'coercive persuasion / thought reform' emotionally, even when high functioning in their professional lives.
In fact, cults target the 'high functioning professonals' for both their increased donations, and the validation it provides for the group. e.g. Tom Cruise & others in Scientology.
Again "There are NO winners here" and again... the children raised normalizing this, having to untangle it all themselves to become functional emotional adults.... on what basis?
Now that I better understand the cultic influences, many memories flooding back. All the red flags were isolated incidences, but as I had not identified the cult negative influence while I was in the relastionship, I did not connect the dots at the time.
This twists up peoples minds and hearts. No wonder those who left MOL read these posts, and contribute minimally. They must be traumatized into speechlessness. How do they live down what they've done, to themselves and others? Yet they truly believed they were acting to themselves and others come closer to God. I hope this helps someone reading this.
There are support groups for those who recruited others into Jamestown, and happened not to be there when the day the Kool Aid came out, how do they live that down?
Lily, the MOL woman in your life, her behaviors drive your family bananas, I understand. You state she was probably a little off-balance to start. She went to an Intensive genuinely for help! Please have compassion. She was genuinely seeking help to become balanced.
And instead became further imbalanced, in support of the "Mission" and her call "Home".
It is so good that she is reading the public postings, and telling her other
MOL friends! That is not for you to be afraid of. Maybe she will seek true help now! It is a decision that she must make on her own, as part of her recovery. Making decisions FOR her, or for other cult members, only furthers their lack of self determination. Relearning to make own decisions, without dependence upon external approval, is a slow process.
Maybe she and others will slowly wake up because the postings - that is part of the purpose of this electronic hiking trail to MOL recovery. Everyone here has found it! No doubt, MOL has a retort planned for each and every statement made on the postings. It will be incredibly painful for anyone to 'wake up' to how they have been used / exploited,
when they truly trusted they were receiving support and guidance from well intentioned spiritual leaders. Just waking up to such a realization could cause a psychological / emotional break down. That is why a professional is useful to help this process - exit counseling.
In Lalich's Bounded Choice" (the book evolved from her Phd Disertation about cults), she writes that a cult member never fully loses
their noncult persona, it just becomes increasedly bound, their perceived options in life are from an increasingly narrow arena. The way to help them see out of that arena, is for the person (therapist) to find that area where the individual still perceives the range of individual choice, and slowly build on that - painstakingly slow process. The cultee will repeatedly hit their internalized walls of restricted options.
My personal concern, is truly how absolutely brilliantly the leaders of MOL have designed their programed thought reform... it hits on each and every one of the methods of thought reform. last year, when I contacted every single cult expert in the USA for information about MOL, in the interest of arranging an intervention for my exBF... they each and every one, told me that Interventions for folks in MOL were the
toughest interventions of all. IMHO, these people are really 'washed! so so sad.
As solway wrote "There are no winners here."
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
solway
()
Date: December 16, 2004 02:23AM
Toni stated:
"I am speaking against the effects of the cult thought reform, not the
individuals themselves. The Individuals are truly brain washed emotionally, even when high functioning in their professional lives. In fact, cults target the 'high functioning professonals' for both their increased donations, and the validation it provides for the group. e.g. Tom Cruise and Scientology. "
I am glad you wrote this and I want to make stress your statement again in my posting.
My xBF involved in MOL is one of the most good hearted people I know, as are other MOL'r that I know. This is what makes it so sad.
Steven Haasan told me directly that is was a "self imposed mental illness". I consider him an authority on the subject.
"I am speaking against the effects of the cult thought reform, not the
individuals themselves. The Individuals are truly brain washed emotionally, even when high functioning in their professional lives. In fact, cults target the 'high functioning professonals' for both their increased donations, and the validation it provides for the group. e.g. Tom Cruise and Scientology. "
I am glad you wrote this and I want to make stress your statement again in my posting.
My xBF involved in MOL is one of the most good hearted people I know, as are other MOL'r that I know. This is what makes it so sad.
Steven Haasan told me directly that is was a "self imposed mental illness". I consider him an authority on the subject.
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
myowndrummer
()
Date: December 16, 2004 05:09AM
Watch out... feeding frenzy coming up for MOL Reunion in March : MOL San Diego. 400 or so members w/ the leaders, for one week long. And many weeks of preparation by the special inner folks.
Beware : the Pied Piper is leading her masses with her magical music. And how much money will they donate when they are high-as-kites?
This current period of 'calm' (normal life), MOLrs are feeling lack of connection to God without the high of their regular gatherings. The addict's loss of substance. Eager to regather again.
I"m so glad I left!! the pain of recovery was well worth it!
And if you are considering joining, I suggest you turn around and run as fast as you can!
Beware : the Pied Piper is leading her masses with her magical music. And how much money will they donate when they are high-as-kites?
This current period of 'calm' (normal life), MOLrs are feeling lack of connection to God without the high of their regular gatherings. The addict's loss of substance. Eager to regather again.
I"m so glad I left!! the pain of recovery was well worth it!
And if you are considering joining, I suggest you turn around and run as fast as you can!
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
myowndrummer
()
Date: December 17, 2004 02:16PM
I imagine that trying to interact in any sensical way with an MOLer is the same as trying to conduct life with any other addict.
Sex addiction, cult addiction is just as bad as alcoholism or any other drug addiction, but IMHO, the MOL addiction is worse because of the insidiousness. The cult addiction and sex addiction is more hidden, so not addressed in our society.
The person 'in' it cannot see it at all for what it really is! Only those
intimately involved with the MOL member are aware of the mind F**K. Others think 'it's not such a big deal'.
The teachings are not the evil, despite their being strange. It is the environment, and the peer pressure, the dancing to exhaustion and repeatedly spilling out, reliving, every pain of your life, the group stripping, public sex, that causes the alteration in neurochemistry.
And then, when high as a kite experiencing "G" (god), then the members donate money. The desire for more and more, to spread the Mission, to bring this ecstasy beyond your imagination, to experience God like you never have before, to the thousands who are starving for this liberation from the constraints of the Illusion.
Just surrender more and more and more, if you experience pain for resistance, just attend another Intensive, meditate more and more, pray and scream to Gourasana, feel his LOVE, as expressed by the other members, keep busy with the Mission work, then you will come Home to God, be enveloped in His Love, and never have to return to this Illusory
world of Pain and Suffering.
Once someone is totally immersed in the above paradigm, they are not able to interact in any kind of 'normal' 'rational' way, thus the frustration of everyone else! The real person is gone.
Yet there is an inner fracture, and internal splitting of the persona that enables the person to continue in the professonal world and keep the MOL inner person surpressed when appropriate to do so. After all, people must continue to function in business world, to keep the donations pouring in. Also, people have to continue to be rationale enough to take care of all the MOL volunteer work they do. Most of MOL work, staffing, administration of Intensives and other functions are all done on a volunteer basis, rather than as paid personel. This is all unregulated because MOL legally functions as a 'church' and as a 'nonprofit'.
Again, glad to be OUT and truly Free of the pain and suffering!
Sex addiction, cult addiction is just as bad as alcoholism or any other drug addiction, but IMHO, the MOL addiction is worse because of the insidiousness. The cult addiction and sex addiction is more hidden, so not addressed in our society.
The person 'in' it cannot see it at all for what it really is! Only those
intimately involved with the MOL member are aware of the mind F**K. Others think 'it's not such a big deal'.
The teachings are not the evil, despite their being strange. It is the environment, and the peer pressure, the dancing to exhaustion and repeatedly spilling out, reliving, every pain of your life, the group stripping, public sex, that causes the alteration in neurochemistry.
And then, when high as a kite experiencing "G" (god), then the members donate money. The desire for more and more, to spread the Mission, to bring this ecstasy beyond your imagination, to experience God like you never have before, to the thousands who are starving for this liberation from the constraints of the Illusion.
Just surrender more and more and more, if you experience pain for resistance, just attend another Intensive, meditate more and more, pray and scream to Gourasana, feel his LOVE, as expressed by the other members, keep busy with the Mission work, then you will come Home to God, be enveloped in His Love, and never have to return to this Illusory
world of Pain and Suffering.
Once someone is totally immersed in the above paradigm, they are not able to interact in any kind of 'normal' 'rational' way, thus the frustration of everyone else! The real person is gone.
Yet there is an inner fracture, and internal splitting of the persona that enables the person to continue in the professonal world and keep the MOL inner person surpressed when appropriate to do so. After all, people must continue to function in business world, to keep the donations pouring in. Also, people have to continue to be rationale enough to take care of all the MOL volunteer work they do. Most of MOL work, staffing, administration of Intensives and other functions are all done on a volunteer basis, rather than as paid personel. This is all unregulated because MOL legally functions as a 'church' and as a 'nonprofit'.
Again, glad to be OUT and truly Free of the pain and suffering!
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
hsuchij
()
Date: December 18, 2004 10:59PM
MOL can be linked to OSHO…headache..
What if one can be allowed to open their eyes freely during each MOL exercise and not to be harassed? I would assume the whole "miracle" experience would be replaced by something else. With our eyes open, we may not be so “intensive” and we won’t fully discharge our emotions.
[i:a4caf671db]Close eye scenario:[/i:a4caf671db]
I don’t know how many times I heard: “close your eye…listen to your heart….what is your heart telling you…do you feel lost…can you remember your childhood…etc.” (sounds emotional)
[i:a4caf671db]Open eye scenario:[/i:a4caf671db]
If we open our eye and watch the instructor, then we may experience this: “listen to me…what am I telling you…I am telling you to get lost…I want you to behave like a child…etc.” (sounds hilarious)
In close eye scenario, we seem to hypnotize ourselves through the help of the instructor. In open eye case, the hypnotizer seems hilariously talking to him/herself without a target. That’s why MOL’s or OSHO’s leaders would threaten anyone who open their eyes during hypnotic exercises because it just breaks the mystical atmosphere.
A guru may gain control over his/her followers after powerful hypnotization. It is not because the guru had entered our mind but because we unleashed emotions ourselves.
Those suppressed emotions began to trouble our minds. Some emotions can be so powerful that we begin to feel weird and lose the sense of our own feelings, rational, and values.
LGAT people can become additive to hypnotization in order to suppress emotions, which causes another cycle of close eye scenario. It is a downward spiral indeed where victims become losers. Since we all have emotions, eventually all participants become victims.
It must be funny to see the hypnotizer speaking to nothing. It would just piss the guru off.
Every live animals on this planet will still wake up tomorrow and breath the fresh air without affected by our emotions or a pissed off guru.
Hsuchi
What if one can be allowed to open their eyes freely during each MOL exercise and not to be harassed? I would assume the whole "miracle" experience would be replaced by something else. With our eyes open, we may not be so “intensive” and we won’t fully discharge our emotions.
[i:a4caf671db]Close eye scenario:[/i:a4caf671db]
I don’t know how many times I heard: “close your eye…listen to your heart….what is your heart telling you…do you feel lost…can you remember your childhood…etc.” (sounds emotional)
[i:a4caf671db]Open eye scenario:[/i:a4caf671db]
If we open our eye and watch the instructor, then we may experience this: “listen to me…what am I telling you…I am telling you to get lost…I want you to behave like a child…etc.” (sounds hilarious)
In close eye scenario, we seem to hypnotize ourselves through the help of the instructor. In open eye case, the hypnotizer seems hilariously talking to him/herself without a target. That’s why MOL’s or OSHO’s leaders would threaten anyone who open their eyes during hypnotic exercises because it just breaks the mystical atmosphere.
A guru may gain control over his/her followers after powerful hypnotization. It is not because the guru had entered our mind but because we unleashed emotions ourselves.
Those suppressed emotions began to trouble our minds. Some emotions can be so powerful that we begin to feel weird and lose the sense of our own feelings, rational, and values.
LGAT people can become additive to hypnotization in order to suppress emotions, which causes another cycle of close eye scenario. It is a downward spiral indeed where victims become losers. Since we all have emotions, eventually all participants become victims.
It must be funny to see the hypnotizer speaking to nothing. It would just piss the guru off.
Every live animals on this planet will still wake up tomorrow and breath the fresh air without affected by our emotions or a pissed off guru.
Hsuchi
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
myowndrummer
()
Date: December 23, 2004 11:48PM
A number of people have sent me private messages, telling desperate stories of loved ones, as they now realize the depth of this organization's effects. Also they are concerned as their beloved MOL members are 'breaking attachments to family' and going deeper into MOL in order to reach God this lifetime. Questions have been regarding such things as my exit counseling experience, the cost and the effectiveness of exit counseling.
My more-or-less standard response follows.
Your pain and frustration is palpable. Truly, I have NO experience in the area of exit counseling. But as far as I know, it's the only potential option. Would it be money down the drain? IMHO, Will chemotherapy treatment for cancer be money down the drain? What are the alternatives?
If it were a family member of mine, I would suggest contacting one of the professional exit counselors, as listed on any of the cult education websites, for guidance on an exit counseling. I've read that sometimes after an exit counseling, the person may stay with the cult another six months or so and then leave. Yes, It is costly. But again, what is at stake?
No, I do not work for any exit counselors. No, I did not have exit counseling myself. I just walked away from MOL rather confusedly, until I stumbled upon this internet support and info. I was never 'devoted enough' to reach a high level in MOL. Maybe that's why I was able to walk away? I did see a cult recovery therapist for a short time.
Truly, I believe MOL is a destructive and manipulative group. When in it, the people don't realize the manipulation because of all the love-bombing. It's a good mask.
Am sorry for the disquiet and pain aroused by the knowledge of MOL's tactics.
Wishing you a positive holiday, even in the absence of your daughter.
My more-or-less standard response follows.
Your pain and frustration is palpable. Truly, I have NO experience in the area of exit counseling. But as far as I know, it's the only potential option. Would it be money down the drain? IMHO, Will chemotherapy treatment for cancer be money down the drain? What are the alternatives?
If it were a family member of mine, I would suggest contacting one of the professional exit counselors, as listed on any of the cult education websites, for guidance on an exit counseling. I've read that sometimes after an exit counseling, the person may stay with the cult another six months or so and then leave. Yes, It is costly. But again, what is at stake?
No, I do not work for any exit counselors. No, I did not have exit counseling myself. I just walked away from MOL rather confusedly, until I stumbled upon this internet support and info. I was never 'devoted enough' to reach a high level in MOL. Maybe that's why I was able to walk away? I did see a cult recovery therapist for a short time.
Truly, I believe MOL is a destructive and manipulative group. When in it, the people don't realize the manipulation because of all the love-bombing. It's a good mask.
Am sorry for the disquiet and pain aroused by the knowledge of MOL's tactics.
Wishing you a positive holiday, even in the absence of your daughter.
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 24, 2004 12:27AM
See the following links regarding "Exit-Counseling," "Intervention":
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
Miracle of Love
Posted by:
solway
()
Date: December 24, 2004 08:19AM
Toni wrote:
I imagine that trying to interact in any sensical way with an MOLer is the same as trying to conduct life with any other addict.
Sex addiction, cult addiction is just as bad as alcoholism or any other drug addiction, but IMHO, the MOL addiction is worse because of the insidiousness. The cult addiction and sex addiction is more hidden, so not addressed in our society.
The person 'in' it cannot see it at all for what it really is! Only those
intimately involved with the MOL member are aware of the mind F**K. Others think 'it's not such a big deal'.
Just read what the moderator posted. Printing and referring to what would be applicable for me and my recovery.
During this time of year as I think about my xBF, his family who continues to think it is "no big deal" and his friends who know about this site and support group who say absolutely nothing. I am sad. Struggling to recover from the circuitous (is that the word?) conversations and insidiousness is beyond words and thoughts at times. Exhausting. Even after the end of our relationship, like Toni, conversations still reel in my mind.
So thank you all for being here and being so bold as to post your stories.
In appreciation.
I imagine that trying to interact in any sensical way with an MOLer is the same as trying to conduct life with any other addict.
Sex addiction, cult addiction is just as bad as alcoholism or any other drug addiction, but IMHO, the MOL addiction is worse because of the insidiousness. The cult addiction and sex addiction is more hidden, so not addressed in our society.
The person 'in' it cannot see it at all for what it really is! Only those
intimately involved with the MOL member are aware of the mind F**K. Others think 'it's not such a big deal'.
Just read what the moderator posted. Printing and referring to what would be applicable for me and my recovery.
During this time of year as I think about my xBF, his family who continues to think it is "no big deal" and his friends who know about this site and support group who say absolutely nothing. I am sad. Struggling to recover from the circuitous (is that the word?) conversations and insidiousness is beyond words and thoughts at times. Exhausting. Even after the end of our relationship, like Toni, conversations still reel in my mind.
So thank you all for being here and being so bold as to post your stories.
In appreciation.
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