A thought just occurred to me. Are you a pacifist, or would you kill to defend yourself?

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kath
Some people might actually like dispassionate killing of other humans- a sort of 'natural born killer'- but this would be very rare.

There have been studies of killing during a war, can't think of the name of these off hand, but I'm sure google will be your friend, I seem to remember reading this on the BBC news site about two years ago. These have shown that in a war the actual killing is done by around 3-5% of combat troops.

These studies also show a significant number or combat troops actively avoid killing, by helping medics, moving ammo, or even shooting to miss the target etc. The figures seem to be constant through a number of conflicts from the second World War to the First Gulf War.

So while the army may try to instil the, 'killer instinct' it only 'takes' in about 5%, and I would suggest that in everyday society around the same percentage would be 'happy to kill' if they got the chance to do it and get away with it anyway.

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mjr40

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rajendran
My MOS yielded nearly 30 hours of legitmate undergraduate credit for a bachelor's degree for general education and major specific credit.

What was your Military Operating Specialty? What university did you attend while you were in the military?

I was in the MI field. I attended a state school in Illinois and graduated with a Bachelor's degree after I left the service.

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zeuszor
In civilian-speak, I was discharged and sent home from Iraq ahead of my unit due to my "personality disorder". (and I was a medic; we're typically smarter) They (my COC) had a guy on their hands (me)
who refused to totally give away his critical-thinking skills and was beyond giving a f**k about their reward/punishment games.

Once again an excellent post. You bring up a very salient point - that once you developed critical thinking skills you became a liability to the cultic groupthink that is necessary in such an institution. The irony is that medics have to develop critical thinking skills in order to do their job and it is the military that trained them.

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zaflon
Are you a pacifist, or would you kill to defend yourself?

This has nothing to do with the cultic psychology used in military training in militaries and armed irregulars throughout the world.

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zeuszor
In fact, a lot of spiritually abusive churches thrive near militarty bases (NTCC and HOP are two examples) because of that same dynamic: value placed upon, and rewards for, conformity, uniformity, and unquestioned obedience to an authoritarian leader.

Once again an excellent point. Opus Dei, a cult within the Catholic Church, also seeks out people who are in the military, precisely because of the reasons stated above. What is ironic is that they have in the past admitted openly they recruit people in the military.

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zeuszor
One of my drill sergeants back in AIT even admitted it to us; he said to my platoon one day that if recruiters told kids the truth about what they were about to get into, nobody's sign up, so as a practical matter, they HAVE to lie in order to make quota.

This is most disturbing, but also very insightful. Lying and manipulation of the truth are primary parts of the recruiting process for cults. If an organization is truly healthy for the individuals involved and for the society within which it exists, they can provide full disclosure about who they are, what they do and how they do it.

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rajendran

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mjr40

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rajendran
My MOS yielded nearly 30 hours of legitmate undergraduate credit for a bachelor's degree for general education and major specific credit.

What university did you attend while you were in the military?

I attended a state school in Illinois.

It would appear that your education in the military was at a civilian university. As such, a civilian school provided the education, not the military.

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zaflon
These studies also show a significant number or combat troops actively avoid killing, by helping medics, moving ammo, or even shooting to miss the target etc. The figures seem to be constant through a number of conflicts from the second World War to the First Gulf War.

I believe that you are referring to the rate at which soldiers actually firing weapons at other people. The psychological training has been altered since WWII to significantly increase the rate of firing:
"By changing from bulls-eye targets to pop-up, human-shaped targets that fall when hit, modern armies and police forces have learned to operantly condition their combatants to respond reflexively even when literally frightened out of their wits. This process has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to raise the firing rate among individual riflemen from a baseline of around 20% in World War II to over 90% today. "
From Killology.com:
[www.killology.com]

Certainly I'd kill in the defense of my family, my property, or myself. And I do not reckon I'd feel bad about having to take some creep out in those circumstances. I am generally a pacifist, yes. I do own a firearm and know how to use it. The 2nd amendment gives me that right. One day we may have to use such weapons to defend ourselves against our own goverment. I never once fired my weapon in Iraq though. Not even at a range. So no, I am most definitely not "anti-gun". I am all about responsible firearm ownership. In fact, I believe it's a patriotic duty to know how to use them. Again, one day we may have to do our patriotoc duty and use them against our own government and its agents.