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zaflon
They might be made for killing, but it really is outstanding fun to fire one. If you get a chance, give it a go.

I fail to see how using a precision weapon specifically designed to kill human beings can be classified as fun. Weightlifting is fun. Going on a date is fun. Walking in the park is fun. Utilizing an engine of death is not.

Don't knock it till you've tried it. Lots of people like sports of various kinds using guns.

Some people might actually like dispassionate killing of other humans- a sort of 'natural born killer'- but this would be very rare.

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andychee
Thats how they got guys to go fight terrorists in Iraq.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Hermann Göring, Nazi Reichmarshall and Luftwaffe Chief, Nuremberg, Germany, April 18, 1946

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kath
Getting young men to stay out of fights is more of a problem half the time.

Excellent point. Instead of using propoganda to get young men to join the military where they are subjected to cultic psychology to hone their natural aggressions into killer instincts, perhaps we should be teaching them how to constructively deal with conflicts through discussion and compromise.

My M16A2 rifle was semi-auto. You do not know your weapons, nor were you in the military. This is obvious. The youth of today ought to do their patriotic duty and REFUSE military service, not participate in it. 80% of the NCOs I knew in my old unit (the most specific I'll get is to say that I was in the 3rd ID and am a veteran of OIF 3) were total sadistic a**holes.
The abuse they put their soldiers through has nothing to do with their ideas of "discipline" or "respect". It has do do with treating somebody like dirt just because you can. The biggest a**holes make rank the quickest. These are the real "Army Values". The Army has got to be the most hypocritical, self-righeous, and phony organization of all time. Of course the military conditions recruits to not think for themselves and undermines individual identities and critical-thinking skills, just like cults. Duh. No S**t, Sherlock. Anybody that thinks otherwise was obviously never a part of it. In fact, a lot of spiritually abusive churches thrive near militarty bases (NTCC and HOP are two examples) because of that same dynamic: value placed upon, and rewards for, conformity, uniformity, and unquestioned obedience to an authoritarian leader. If people in general what the military was REALLY like, from the inside, nobody'd have any confidence. Straight up.

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kath
Don't knock it till you've tried it. Lots of people like sports of various kinds using guns.

For the purposes of this discussion, let us assume that firing guns is fun, and even hunting animals is fun. Assuming that these are in fact the case, it is still a major psychological shift to go from shooting targets/animals to human beings. The only way this shift can occur is through cultic mind control exerted on young men during boot camp. I am sorry, just because someone likes to spend the day in the woods tracking and hunting deer does not give us license as a society to entice that person into the military and alter his thinking so that he now can psychologically shoot humans instead of deer.

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zeuszor
The youth of today ought to do their patriotic duty and REFUSE military service, not participate in it. 80% of the NCOs I knew in my old unit (the most specific I'll get is to say that I was in the 3rd ID and am a veteran of OIF 3) were total sadistic a**holes.
The abuse they put their soldiers through has nothing to do with their ideas of "discipline" or "respect". It has do do with treating somebody like dirt just because you can...value placed upon, and rewards for, conformity, uniformity, and unquestioned obedience to an authoritarian leader. If people in general what the military was REALLY like, from the inside, nobody'd have any confidence. Straight up.

Thank you for your excellent post. It should be noted that some of the most heroic voices in the peace movements in the US today come from those who served in the military and were subject to its cultic manipulations. And some of the most pro-war voices come from those who did not, like Cheney and Rumsfeld.
"On the contrary, the soldier above all other people prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war." - General Douglas MacArthur

On thing that always kind of pissed me off is that its always the young guys who have to be out front and get killed and the old guys sit in the office and boss everybody around.
But it would be nice to get paid to go to school after you got out.
So how come all these new churches like Battle cry and maybe Set Free have war shows and stuff like that and talk about fighting the war for God?
It seems like fun, but I have a problem with it because Jesus says turn the other cheek. But the president is supposed to be a good Christain so I never know what to beleive anymore. They say American is a christain country, but some people don't think so. Its too confusing.
I would like to fight for my country but not if its wrong.
Is every body so confused nowadays?

No sweat, bro. BTW, (and to make a long story short) I was discharged honorably according to AR5-13 last November. In civilian-speak, I was discharged and sent home from Iraq ahead of my unit due to my "personality disorder". Hah! Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black! The irony! Most grunts I knew (and I was a medic; we're typically smarter) were typical antisocial personalities. People like that thrive in the military culture. They (my COC) had a guy on their hands (me)
who refused to totally give away his critical-thinking skills and was beyond giving a f**k about their reward/punishment games. BCT and AIT were a breeze next to what the REAL Army is like. Hey, f**k it, I got out with an honorable and can never again for the rest of my life be part of the military again. :-) Most of the people in on this discussion sound so naive that I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Peace.

Another thing: if you read the board about Trinty Foundation, you'll learn that I recently left I genuinely spiritually abusive organization, that I became a part of shortly after I left the Army. Hey, you know what the joke in the Army is about what the acronym US ARMY backwards stands for? "Yes, my retarted *ss signed up." Get it? The recruiters offer you one thing, and the reality is another. Everybody knows that. One of my drill sergeants back in AIT even admitted it to us; he said to my platoon one day that if recruiters told kids the truth about what they were about to get into, nobody's sign up, so as a practical matter, they HAVE to lie in order to make quota. So, I was in the Army, and I was in a cult too. At the risk of sounding cocky, I know what the heck I'm talking about here, kids. :wink: