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counselor47

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NathanA
I have a question Doug. This is partly the heart of the issue. You have described the hot seats as spiritual rape. What was the nature of the damage done? You say that some former members do not believe in God after leaving TFI. That holds little weight though, as everyone should have a faith that is their own and not contingent on someone elses actions.
Did they become incapable of making basic decisions? Did they turn into shells who would not trust anyone? Was the potential for the 'victims' to become abusers planted?

It seems we all blitzed Marion after her inquiry. Hopefully she isn't afraid to post now. :lol:

People at times became incapable of making basic decisions. People's anxiety level increased. People suffered symptoms that indicate they possibly have PTSD--go back and reread Boanerges' post. Many former members had to seek psychotherapy upon leaving TFI, and some spent thousands of dollars on that process.


Nathan, there has been some debate among the members and the people posting on this board whether you are just trolling or if you are sincere in your questions. For my part, I want to believe you, so I will try to explain to you why you come across as so irritating to people. I hope that in doing so it will help you dialogue with others in a more constructive manner.

The problem comes from you making judgmental statements into your posts, like telling Boanerges you are skeptical about his experience. For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that Boanerges is telling the truth. If so, can you imagine the amount of vulnerability it took for him to write about that experience? Can you empathize what it would be like for him to then be told by someone who is acting as an apologist for his victimizer, "I am skeptical that this happened to you."?

I do not expect you to just accept everything we say, here. Chernuff1 says that my problem with you is that you are not agreeing with us, not seeing things our way. That is not true. You are free to disagree, but you come across as being very insensitive, completely oblivious to the fact that this material has profound emotional content to those of us who have lived through it.

Now, you have done it again. When you say, "That holds little weight though, as everyone should have a faith that is their own and not contingent on someone elses actions," you are again being emotionally insensitive to the experience of people who have had significant trauma. These are not just dry, intellectual questions to us, here. Can you imagine the level of trauma a believer would have to go through to make them want to pull away from God? Maybe they should not do that, but are you 100% certain the same thing could not happen to you? Are you 100% certain you have the right to judge people who have been through experiences you can only imagine?

I hope this is helpful. I, for one, would like to see you continue to be involved in this discussion, but I think it would be appropriate if your posts reflected the attitude that you claim for yourself, which is that of honest questioner.

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NathanA
All I am saying is that a genuine faith has to be your own, and not something attached to the actions of someone else.

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I agree that it is shaking when someone you trust spiritually ends up being proven as a fake.

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zeuszor
You're right...what else to say?