thank you Valma, for reposting StartingOver's post. As terrible as it sounds, who can say this is not what goes on behind the scenes of this multi-million-euro-business? It would not be the first time facade and reality will turn out to be two different things alltogether within a 'charitable, spiritual' organisation.

Looking at the picture on facebook, I too think she is with child. Wouldn't have to be a big thing, people have kids all the time. The comments though are very revealing about how things work within people who are deluded into thinking there is something 'devine' going on and have lost their ability for healthy, critical thinking.

There are four questions asked. All non-hostile. Just asking.
1; are they a couple?
2; forgive me, but is Krishnabai expecting a baby?
3; she is with Mooji and expecting a baby?
4; she actually does look pregnant. Is this a recent photo? (none of my business).

None of the comments on these questions are about an actual, possible you-have-sex-and-then-you-become-pregnant, down to earth kind of happening.
Just take a look at that picture. For me, that says it all. Krishnabai is holding on to moo, moo is not holding on to her and looks into the distance. Of course his parrots will say: well he is detached from all that, his love is impersonal.

Comments such as: they are devine (Radha-Krishna), she is pregnant with and expecting her true self, love, love, love and lots more love. The heart loves what the heart loves. All spiritual blabla without any depth. But I am sure these people really feel a kind of elated feeling, they really feel and believe they experience something out of the ordinary. Oh, how beautiful it all is. Etc, etc. It's what they make you believe. And I feel at liberty to say so because I was one of these deluded people for years.

I'm happy to say my life is becoming more normal again. the moomoo's probably will say I missed my change for freedom. Well, let's see.

This forum is worse than a tabloid newspaper...

Are we seriously discussing whether someone is pregnant or not based on a single photo on Facebook? And whether the guy next to her likes her or not based on how he is holding her in that moment? And then reading devious things into totally normal, run-of-the mill comments? And then jumping to conclusions like the guy is planning to run away and retire with her somewhere with a load of cash? -- which actually would make him kind of a nice guy, right? To leave his cult and set up a cosy life somewhere with his pregnant girlfriend?

Geez, that would be a twist all right: Devious cult leader gives 3 months notice to his followers before running off with his pregnant girlfriend with a load of cash.

--> all based on one photo and a message that Moo will be away for a bit over winter.

I watch and wait to see the outcome of this little tabloid fantasy :-)))

Krishnabai and Mooji one year ago: [www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]

and now different photo: [www.facebook.com]

if it's true, it may have consequences for the both, a child changes everything….



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 03:23AM by Horowitz.

Wombat: if you want a serious discussion you can listen to the whole chapter with the question: ‘Mooji what is your highest pointing?” Mooji answers: “my highest pointing is waiting to happen’ at 27:36 in Hallo Sahaja Moojibaba interview. [mooji.org]
I think that Mooji shows spiritual arrogance again, he is spiritualy condescending, and it’s a typical for the neo-advaita teacher fallacy with a delusive promise of an easy enlightenment in future received from Mooji and his endless talks… Mooji seeks a “spiritual grenade” to awaken up his intoxicated YT’s and MS’s audience….

Mooji : “I am getting tired of talking and talking” at 28:15 in Hallo Sahaja Moojibaba interview:
[mooji.org]

because no one has gotten awaken even not Mooji only from talking and talking….

Good point Horowitz,

firstly we see Moo selling his special brand of "instant enlightenment" - available to everyone, and no prior experience required. Just listen to his musings and "hey presto", you become enlightened effortlessly.

Then we see Sahaja Express being promoted for a monthly fee - a series of video talks available for those who have some kind of special calling and who want to immerse themselves deeper in the 'pointings'. So that if you didn't become 'instantly enlightened' by the free material available online, you can pay a monthly fee to become enlightened that way....

Seems that the "instant enlightenment" wasn't quite so instant, was it?

First it was free, then it kind of wasn't....

Now, Moo is saying that he has not yet given his highest pointing! So all those people who have paid for a monthly subscription have been missing out, big time. Only, they had no idea that they were missing out- they thought they were hearing the truth. Now there is something higher again, a teaching that they need to wait for or be worthy of...

People who bought the books and paid for the retreats were never given this higher teaching. How could they have become instantly enlightened? They couldn't!! They were deceived. Now they wait with baited breath for the real truth...

It's a pretty common tactic that cult leaders use. The goal post keeps changing, and no one ever reaches the end of the wild goose chase. Oh, but the money keeps rolling in.

Horowitz, I think I may actually agree with you for once :-) He does come across as arrogant at that point, but to be fair, he continues to summarise his teachings in a nutshell and then concludes with "What is the highest teaching, highest pointing? You are the one you have been seeking, you are the Self."

Yes, I'm sounding like a Moo defender again. Sorry :-/ I've been reading about confirmation bias a lot these days -- the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories. I see a lot of it here and also in Moo's supporters. It's not an easy one to get around.


PS.... someone commented on the Krishnabai photo that its an old photo, so no baby forth coming, it seems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 04:38PM by Wombat.

Quote
Wombat
Are we seriously discussing whether someone is pregnant or not based on a single photo on Facebook? And whether the guy next to her likes her or not based on how he is holding her in that moment? And then reading devious things into totally normal, run-of-the mill comments? And then jumping to conclusions like the guy is planning to run away and retire with her somewhere with a load of cash?

You make a good point, Wombat. It's nice to have a place here where we can discuss Mooji without being censored, but maybe we should take care not to let this place devolve to the level of tabloid gossip ;-)

Quote
Sahara71
Now, Moo is saying that he has not yet given his highest pointing! So all those people who have paid for a monthly subscription have been missing out, big time. Only, they had no idea that they were missing out- they thought they were hearing the truth. Now there is something higher again, a teaching that they need to wait for or be worthy of...

But then at 32:29 he does say what his highest pointing is:

Quote

What is the highest teaching, highest pointing? You are the one you've been seeking; you are the self. But I could not say that to people and that would be enough. It would not be enough.

Earlier he talked about consciousness being like water, in that it has no shape of its own, but it takes the shape of whatever it's poured into. He says that he teaches his students to remain formless.

You can argue against or dismiss what he's saying, but in my experience it indeed is a high truth that he describes. Life can be hell when you're identified purely with your mind, your personality, you memories, your body.

What Mooji talks about is not self-realization but an awakening experience, recognizing (experientially, not just intellectually) that the real you that's been observing all this is itself essentially not the mind, personality, memories, body, or any shape, but formless consciousness without limitation, beginning, or end.

But this is a halfway point. The awakening experience is the seed and self-realization is the tree.

After the awakening experience, you have to come down from the mountain and put your new found recognition into practice. Recognizing throughout the day that even though you experience reality through the perspective of a particular person, your true self is no more this person than anyone or anything else. Recognizing that all form is equally the Self (formlessness).

What does this look like in practice? It looks like someone living a selfless life, not being compelled to act on impulses that benefit the person to the detriment of the rest. It looks like someone lovingly fulfilling the responsibilities that come with their roles in family, work, and society, without ever a moment of feeling sorry for oneself.

Some people want to never leave the mountain, the high of the awakening experience. They want to avoid having to integrate their new found insight by facing the struggles of everyday life. They want to avoid having to confront their still very much intact old egotistic beliefs and habits.

What does that look like in practice? It looks like people thinking they are more spiritual than others. It looks like people trying to escape from reality by seeking refuge in a pretend-utopia where everyone is pretend-enlightened or pretend-becoming enlightened. It looks like people reinforcing these delusions in each other in one big circle-jerk. They find comfort in their collective superiority-complex and their collective denial of their unconfronted psychological issues, fears, wrong beliefs, and lingering identifications (as evidenced by their dismissal of "mind").

Mooji's rants about how holy Monte Sahaja is, how people get their chance for freedom by going there, and miss out on that chance by leaving, this is not healthy. It's manipulation of people who want to live in fairy-tale land. I used to be like that. I've lived in a cult for about ten years. I've developed a keen sense for these spiritual escapism an manipulation vibes.

That's my perspective, for what it's worth. I don't think Mooji's highest teaching is the highest teaching there is. Furthermore, like I explained, I think it can be a trap. I think the highest teaching is to accept what arises as it arises without having preference for either form or formlessness, seeing as it's all the same. Where Mooji's neo-advaita is about a halfway-truth, the Heart Sutra is about the final truth: "Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form."

No one should forget, the abortion report in Be’s article from a Mooji’s ex-girlfriend in Monte sahaja confirmed by several sources there, it was very sensitive issue in a such female MS community. Assumed pregnancy of Mooji’s girlfriends must be monitored and protected as well a heron…..It’s also a dark side of Mooji’s spiritual talks and his private life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 08:44PM by Horowitz.

Mooji says in the recent video:


"What is the highest teaching, highest pointing? You are the one you've been seeking; you are the self. But I could not say that to people and that would be enough. It would not be enough."


After watching this part, I am just confused again. Firstly, Mooji says that he has not spoken of his highest teaching. Then he does a back-flip and says that this is the highest teaching: "You are the self".

But it is not enough. Why is it not enough? He doesn't say! Is it not enough because it wont lead you to enlightenment? Or is it not enough because people just expect there to be more? Is Mooji only ever giving people what they want to hear or do his teachings not even lead someone to enlightenment? Or is there a third possibility?

Obviously, if this teaching were enough, then we wouldn't need the retreats and the photos of his feet and the little vials of dirt from the holy land of Monte Sahaja. So: if "You are the self" is what we really need to hear - then Moo's spiritual business is not going to make a dime.

So, Mooji kind of hints that there must be something else. That this teaching is not enough.

It is very, very perplexing. Is the teaching "not enough" because we also need to do spiritual practices and to do good deeds in the world? Moo doesn't say. It's very mysterious. My guess is that he doesn't want us to know why it isn't enough.

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it is not enough. Why is it not enough?
> He doesn't say! Is it not enough because it wont
> lead you to enlightenment? Or is it not enough
> because people just expect there to be more? Is
> Mooji only ever giving people what they want to
> hear or do his teachings not even lead someone to
> enlightenment? Or is there a third possibility?

I can't speak for Mooji but it makes perfect sense to me that hearing him say "You are the one you've been seeking; you are the self" would not be enough for most people to trigger a moment of recognition of the truth that's described in those words.