Ananas, i could not have said it better and can confirm nearly everything that you say in your post.

And yes lets talk openly about the use of black magic here. Black magicians can look like normal beings at first, or can be very sweet and seductive. Be warned where you may fall into without even knowing it.

To think that there is going to be another mega-event in Lisbon next month with mass hysteria and manipulation, what to say... May people wake up though many who are already under the spell will flock and feel ecstatic...

just think about it:

evil doesn't come in the shape of a figure with horns on his head and smoke coming out of his ears.
It comes many times in beautiful shapes seemingly expressing love. One of Charlie Mansons ex-cultmembers said she experienced him sometimes "radiating so much love". It became rather clear how "loving" that guy was.

Not yet knowing much about the black magic. But what I see is that he is stearing his followers more and more into dark waters. First it was just "dark forces" trying to stop you from being free. Giving the impression they were outside and separate from you. Now it's the evil inside each and everyone. That's much more intimate. Not separate. Much more harmful. And putting any responsability about anything going wrong on the follower. Again, he is not to blame. It's all your own "evil" fault. One wonders what the next step is going to be...

This is so wrong, so dangerous. So sick...

I don't know about black magic, but if you want to look at underlying energetic principles at work in why people get hooked to m's videos, here's some thoughts about it, for what it's worth:

People are looking for meaning and for liberation from suffering and from the dreariness of ordinary life. This yearning is shared among many people, it's a collective energetic dynamic. This creates a vacancy. It's a projection looking for a screen to project on. Who fits the bill? Since the yearning is coming from a self-centered rather than a selfless place, the vacancy exists within a self-centered energetic dynamic and thus only a self-centered figure can fill it. Once one such figure has been found to project on, this collective energetic dynamic has found its missing link and becomes a closed feedback loop. The intense energy people can feel in some cases during the satsangs isn't m's energy, it's the collective feedback loop's energy.

The fact that m has become so popular and not one of the much more advanced, humble and selfless traditional advaita vedanta teachers says something about the state of humanity. Our collective spiritual yearning is too impure to be projected onto a pure teacher.

Mooji is just a link in the chain, as is any seeker that projects onto him. He is no evil perpetrator, and his followers aren't innocent victims. They've created and sustain the collective feedback loop together. They're all in it together.

Life is a continuous miracle but we're so enthralled by our self-centered repetitive thoughts and feelings that we overlook it. We're locked in the prisons we create ourselves and search for liberation outside of ourselves. When the cause of the problem is internal, so is the solution. Seeking external solutions is an effort to bypass the humility needed to clearly see how our self-centeredness creates the mess in the first place. The search for external solutions or saviors is itself false, therefore any external solution we find must necessarily also be false.

You can find helpful external factors such as people that give valuable advice, sure, but they're not infallible daddy/savior figures that you should subjugate yourself to. And if you do, that's on you. You yourself have chosen to subjugate yourself to someone. You have given them the role of savior. They may act all savior-like but it's still you that choses to accept them as such.

No offense, but to me this talk of m's black magic powers sounds like a cop-out. It allows you to see m's fakeness without taking responsibility for your own actions. Magical thinking is a very slippery slope. It can be used to justify anything. Don't like that you're attracted to a woman who doesn't want you? Just blame the attraction on her evil black magic powers and call her a witch. Don't like that you maltreated someone? Just blame demonic possession and voila, no guilt.

This is just my opinion and I don't pretend to definitively know that the black magic talk is all bullshit, but even if it isn't, we don't need to go there to explain anything. Just take responsibility for your own actions and state of mind and you will be so empowered that there's no need to go back to the dark ages of magical thinking and neither will you be vulnerable to black magic powers, real or imagined. Nor will you be looking for daddy guru savior to set you free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 07:11PM by zizlz.

Zizlz your statements sound very much like victim shaming!

To give such a statement:
„Mooji is just a link in the chain, as is any seeker that projects onto him. He is no evil perpetrator, and his followers aren't innocent victims. They've created and sustain the collective feedback loop together. They're all in it together.“
Is to me pure ignorance and again blame it on the victim!

Moo is pretending to be the embodiment of God in human form, putting himself on a pedestal and let others worship him! This is a fact! He is not just another link in the chain! He has created the chain!!!!!!!!!
One person acting like this must take responsibility for his doings!
His victims are mostly people of traumatized backgrounds, they don’t know what they are getting themselves into! But he knows indeed! This is a huge difference!!!
To blame it on them is in my opinion simply outrageous and an example of arrogance.

Please read through the forum for further education!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 07:39PM by Joyfree.

Quote

You can find helpful external factors such as people that give valuable advice, sure, but they're not infallible daddy/savior figures that you should subjugate yourself to. And if you do, that's on you. You yourself have chosen to subjugate yourself to someone. You have given them the role of savior. They may act all savior-like but it's still you that choses to accept them as such.

Corboy note: that seeming "choice" we make to subjugate ourselves to a cult leader is a decision made in a dishonest context.

That context, that setting has been organized by the cult leader to work for him and against us.

Two, many of us are in crisis and disoriented when we cross paths with our future cult leader. In crisis we are in a *physical/psychological state* where
we do not have full use of our cognitive capacities and we *trauma bond* with
the first person who seems to offer safety and guidance. Its like ducklings
hatching and following the first thing they see, Momma Duck, or a robot.


No offense, but to me this talk of m's black magic powers sounds like a cop-out. It allows you to see m's fakeness without taking responsibility for your own actions. Magical thinking is a very slippery slope. It can be used to justify anything. Don't like that you're attracted to a woman who doesn't want you? Just blame the attraction on her evil black magic powers and call her a witch. Don't like that you maltreated someone? Just blame demonic possession and voila, no guilt.

Corboy: what so many of us experience as an energy field may result from
powerful tides of shared unconcious hope and yearning directed toward a single person, the Rock Star effect.

Remember too, a cult guru *selectively recruits* only those persons who
come in trusting him, and just as selectively rejects or alienates those persons whose critical thinking is intact and who do not need him.

And remember what we have been told about arranged marriages for some Monte Sahaja residents.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 09:26PM by corboy.

a friend send me this:

[www.nytimes.com]

available 3-5 may because their paywall is down during this time.


see if you spot the differences/simularities

I like to add to the discussion that some people are more susceptible to influence (good or bad) than others because their psychological make-up is more open or fluid (for lack of a better term) than others who are more self-contained so to speak. It does not mean that they are weaker or stupid, they just have that kind of psychological make-up which also has its benefit when around an authentic sage. Until one has a full grasp and anchor in one's own inner reality, such individuals can be easily influenced even without their consent by external forces which are not all benevolent via a human being, this i would call black magic. But i would even avoid white magic as an individual with such constitution based on my past experiences. The trouble is you don't expect such things with someone advertised as an "Advaita Zen master".

A proper Advaita Vedanta teacher is not a magician, he even uses the metaphor of a magician to explain what maya does on us and means as the great trickster.

I came across Mooji on youtube short time before my mother became ill with cancer and listening to him helped me so much during this time. His calm hypnotizing voice, saying that we are not the body gave me the power to keep calm for her, also in her most painful moments. She was in hospital nearly half a year before she died. I visited her every single day and I listened to Mooji for hours when I was not with her. A photo of him was on the startscreen of my smartphone to remind me of the truth and I was also wearing a mala, which I bought on Mooji's online shop. Two days before my mother died in hospital, I was also wearing this mala. When leaving my mother's room a woman from the room next to her came through the door and she was wearing the same mala. Really astonished I asked her "Is this mala from Mooji?" and she said "Yes". She was visiting her father and we were both full of joy to meet here under this circumstances in a hospital in such a big city in Germany.

My mother left her body one year ago and without Mooji as a daily guide it would have been a much more hard time for me and also for my mother. Therefore I am really thankful to him.

Although I do not watch his videos anymore, the truth, he teaches me remains in me. I cannot say anything against him.

The serenity you describe could have been obtained from
cleaner souorces.

So what is magic, be it white or black? In my understanding:it is manipulation of energy=life force, it is to INFLUENCE with INTENTION.


Zitzlz, maybe you have a certain idea about how black magic looks like, but what it simply means: someone with the skill to influence energy (you could say: doing energy work) is doing it with the intention to harm others (thats what m uses when important people leave sahaja in oder to silence them. As we know he also uses many other techniques like phone calls, emails, vitists in person and so forth. This thread is full of the endless techniques and examples in what m does). Magic is done in rituals, prayers and affirming intentions with power.


White magic is used to get what you want (that is what m uses to get as many followers as possible and to keep them). Do you have experience in energy work? Can you feel the trancing effect of m videos? In what you say is some truth, but as Joyfree poited out very well you dismiss very important points. And also what Valma said about not everyone being receptive to influence in the same way, is important, and that you dont expect this when you come to a man, who calls himself an enlightened "advaita zen master". Thats why it is so important to see through his tricks and why this forum is so valuable.


And YES, everyone has to take responsibility for themselves as was pointed out in the last part of my post.