Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Jay Cruise ()
Date: April 09, 2009 12:14PM

The Anticult
But, she uses detached, depersonalized language like...the body did _____...the body is hungry....the body was raped....(can others help with examples of those detached language patterns?).

There is certain language for detachment but I think BK deals heavily with detachment in philosophy on every aspect of life.

There is "story" which replaces identity. I am an accountant, married with three children is all part of the "story". These fragments of the past, as J Krishnamurti would say, are not reality.

"The reality is that without a story you're genderless - not male, not female, not even human. You're not anything. It is not anything, it's more than that. It's all inclusive; it doesn't even question. There are no questions in the void; there is only the experience of it. And not even that." []

There is detachment from reality itself. Refering to 'what is' is all that exists when you take away your story or identity. Shit doesn't smell if you don't have the story that it smells. A cancerous tumor doesn't exist until you believe you have it, and when you forget you have it the tumor no longer exists (Byron would make more money as an oncologist). You create your own reality.

And of course Byron refers to herself as 'it' treating her identity as a thing. Detachment from identity. There is no difference between yourself and a matchstick, a ride in an elevator, or the color blue. I am you. I am the Nazi throwing the baby in the fire. I am what I am seeking. I am what I am doing. I am what you think of me. I am the reflection in the mirror.

I have seen BK people refer to their age as "I have lived in this body for 20 years" and death as "leaving the body". My body is sick. My body is fat. My body is named Sarah. The marvellous death of the body as we understand it to be is the beginning of this detachment.

The mind is not the self either, although Katie seems a tad liberal with this theory. The metaphor of thoughts as clouds passing across the sky without effort is meant to detach you from thoughts as a mere witness to them. My thoughts aren't true. I am apart from my mind. The Work is an example of detachment from thought. There is detachment from stressful thoughts.

Detachment sessions. Detachment from your most valuable possesion.

Detachment from family. If my son dies I won't have the stress of having a sick child. Yes, that is sick.

It's all about detachment.

Byron Katie (the Work) and Marelin Thornton, Stark Raving Money Mad?
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 09, 2009 01:46PM

regarding Marelin Thornton, in the disclaimer [] she comments on her "therapudic information".
Right above that, and on the previous page, she talks about treating PTSD and trauma.
How can a person with no training, who can't spell therapeutic, treat PTSD?
Most professional therapists won't even try to treat it, as it takes expert training. The suicide rates are too high. Some people worry about people dying due to their own ignorance, some don't.

Now wait a minute here.
The "story" she is telling about being robbed at gunpoint, is the exact same story that Byron Katie tells about being at gunpoint. [];
Byron Katie tells people that story, so they will continue to lower their defenses and boundaries, for obvious reasons.

Also, "Surrendering" is the other Byron Katie motif, to make people more passive. In the main report at the Guruphiliac forum, they prepare people by literally telling them to Surrender to the BK process. They just outright tell them to surrender and be passive, and most people just do it.
They work and the unconscious metaphorical level, and also the conscious level.

Marelin Thornton also talks about the "subconscious" on her webpage, and lists every quackery technique known to man. If you can sell it, she does it.
She also uses the "wizard" motif, which is used in basic hypnotherapy.
Her webpage title says...END SUFFERING.

So she has cloned numerous Byron Katie techniques and stories, End Suffering, Surrender to everything (be passive), subconscious stories, robbed at gunpoint, etc.
Marelin Thornton sounds kinda nuts, doesn't she? Maybe even stark raving mad?
Stark Raving Money Mad!!! and Cash Flow Crazy!!!!

E-book Title: How to Go Cash Flow Crazy and StarK Raving Money Mad
Author: Marelin Thornton []

Notice how "Marelin Thornton" hides and covers her FACE with her HAIR [] on her webpage? Who is this person, really? What is their real name? How many other online schemes are they running?

When there is blood in the water, the Krazy Kash-flow Kooks come running. The Byron Katie work process, is just another Crazy Cash Cow for these folks, to add to their massive list of junk they sell.
The entire BK scene is literally crawling with sharks, looking for the easiest meal they can find.
This woman appears a bit smarter though, as she doesn't appear to have gotten duped into the bogus BK certification, unless she does that under another identity.

This is more along the lines of a Stephen Sashen, who promote every scamola cash-idea they can think of, and does the BK work on the side, or appears to, unless they have to pay some money back, or do so "voluntarily".
More blatant internet scams, preying on the vulnerable as cash-cows. Birds of a feather flock together.

Marelin Thornton (aka Marelin the Magician) is the author of...
Merlin's Message,
Unleash Your Infinite Abundance,
The Art of Attracting More Cash Flow,
founder of the Creating Camelot Club,
co-founder of Wizards of Wealth and GMGB.

E-book Title: How to Go Cash Flow Crazy and StarK Raving Money Mad
Author: Marelin Thornton
Book Description: Where Wisdom and Wealth Creation Meet, Making it a "Money Marriage Made in Heaven...Find out How You can "Go Cash Flow Crazy and Stark Raving Money Mad,"

Jay Cruise
Ah, huh.

Speaking of impossible claims the moderator on the Work forum ("Muse" aka Marelin Thornton - way of the wizard!) says she can rid you of inner UFOs you may be harboring at unconscious bay. []

I have a sneaking suspicion that she is also the founder of the Creating Camelot Club where you can learn magic and wisdom of Merlin the Magician []

Thornton has made several reviews for Katie's books online and is a huge fan of Byron Katie (not surprising considering she works for her).

She offers this advice on The Work forum to someone whose girlfriend was kidnapped:

"If she surrenders to them killing her (and I know it isn't easy), she will take the energetic edge off the creation. When she feels better (do some tapping -- it is powerful), and is not fearing or resisting, their power dissipates. Right now your fear is firing them up and keeping the creation alive."


To hell with the BK blog :P

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 01:57PM by The Anticult.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Dianne Sikel,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 09, 2009 02:56PM

Its reported that in the BK forum at that last post in the closed Open Forum, is from Carol Skolnick.
And it another forum, they are making comments about it, some about not being able to do the BK work, and getting drunk instead. Don't know if that is supposed to be a joke or not?

But there is another BK work coach.
Dianne Sikel
She is a Realtor, a Real Estate Investor, a coach. (sound familiar? pro-salesperson)
She does a hard sell of the Work []
She tells her version of her life story at her webpage. []
She uses the Work on... “How to Get Along with Yourself, Family, and the World..."
And she says on her website she lost custody and visitation to her son recently.

also has another website for coaching and workshops,
Life, Love, & Money []

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 03:00PM by The Anticult.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rob ()
Date: April 09, 2009 04:17PM

Thanks for answering my question, I can see more clear now, but have to look deeper into it.
There is a zenstory about people talking about detachement, without knowing what they are talking about (I forgot where I found it) :

When the Tesshu, a master of Zen, calligraphy and swordsmanship, was a young man he called on the Zen master Dokuon. Wishing to impress Dokuon he said, “The mind, the Buddha, and all sentient beings after all do not exist. The true nature of phenomenon is emptiness. There is no realisation, no delusion, no sagacity, no mediocrity, nothing to give and nothing to receive.

Dokuon promptly hit him with a bamboo stick. Tesshu became quite furious.

Dokuon said quietly: “If nothing exists, where did this anger come from?”

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Christa ()
Date: April 09, 2009 05:22PM

It's too bad someone who misspells "therapeutic" as "therapudic" probably is too benighted to appreciate all the great jokes that immediately come to mind.

Etymology:[from Merriam-Webster]
New Latin, singular of Latin pudenda, from neuter plural of pudendus, gerundive of pudere: to be ashamed

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 05:50PM by Christa.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: April 09, 2009 10:10PM


The format of and idea for ‘Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’ is in no way originating from Byron Katie and/or Stephen Mitchell. In 1991, a book by Greg Johanson and Ron Kurtz called 'Psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao-te ching' was published by Bell Tower (it was reprinted by Random House in 1994). It’s a book on the subject of psychotherapy that’s been described as a recommended read for therapists and anyone in therapy who’s interested in spirituality. Stephen Mitchell knows this book by Johanson and Kurtz very well, since his translation of the ‘Tao-te Ching’ is used in it. After the publication of the Johanson/Kurtz book, Mitchell’s translation started selling and the Johanson/Kurtz book thereupon formed the exact outline for his and Byron Katie’s rewrite, published under 'their own title', ‘A Thousand Names for Joy: Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’.

I just had a light go on in my head! I think my escape from BKI and The Work was fortuitous, in that I read this BK book first!

Having prepped myself thoroughly, with the infusion of many years of Zen and other Eastern concepts, I found 'Katie and Stevie's" book to be right up my alley. After subscribing to the Work on the Web, and not really getting what I had hoped for, I went to the bookstore to get a "fix" so that I could recapture the feelings I got from BK/SM's book. I picked up an older book of Katie's, Loving What Is, and read a variety of passages. I found myself asking, "What the hell is THIS shit?" It was nothing like A Thousand Names for Joy. I then went to the web to see what I could find for free, along the same lines, and found my way to this thread. Fortuitous, indeed! It appears that although Kate and Stevie are good at rewording, BK's own writing sucks so bad that it saved my ass!

How about THAT for a testimonial?!


Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 09, 2009 10:30PM


A cancerous tumor doesn't exist until you believe you have it, and when you forget you have it the tumor no longer exists

What a bunch of BS.

I was convinced I had food poisoning.

Turned out what I had was the flu.

I was convinced I was freezing cold, but my thermometer measured my body temp as 104 F.

Turns out when we fight infections, our bodies secrete cytokine chemicals that goof with the hypothalamus and make us experience our bodies as cold when a thermometer measures us as being fever hot, at 104 F.

And when camping, a buddy of mine was not aware one of her teeth was in bad condition.

She woke up from a sound sleep with a fucker of a toothache.

If she could be sound asleep, with her thinking mind not telling her stories about her body, what accounts for a body reaction to an infection that is vigorous enough to diddle pain receptors and wake a person up, eh?

There are people who have painless heart attacks and dont even feel them.

The damage only reveals itself later, when they get an EKG and it reveals signs of abnormality consistent with a heart attack, or if a persons heart is so damaged that later on they develop heart failure.

(Painless heart attacks happen a lot to diabetics--damage to the autonomic nervous system.)

I was on a jury for a medical malpractice case. This poor guy was in a car accident.

They X rayed him to make sure he didnt have broken ribs before sending him home.

The X rays revealed he had an enlarged heart.

Guy had type 2 diabetes but had not received adequate treatment for it. (He had access to excellent health care but for some reason did not take his condition seriously).

Follow up from a cardiologist and tests showed that without his consciously knowing it, this man had suffered a bunch of painless heart attacks.

He was now in grade 3 heart failure.

Damage to his heart was so severe that the treatment of choice was a heart transplant.

He was 42 and had zero idea of what a world of shit had happened to him.

His mind had told him nothing to indicate he was in danger.

(Get tested for pre diabetes and diabetes, especially if it runs in your family. And if you have either one, demand to be sent to a diabetes educator and insist on getting an exam by a cardiologist--which you want to get because you will wanna begin an exercise program as part of your treatment.)

End of PR announcement.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 09, 2009 10:36PM

Regarding the BK forum that is now closed.

Years ago, when studying research on memory, I learned that what tends to be remembered best are:

The first item

and the last item.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Jay Cruise ()
Date: April 10, 2009 02:55AM

Heh! I went to the wrong forum. Well, it was an eventful detour.

I'm not sure what bogus BK certification is. Marelin Thorton (aka Madame Snakeoil) does offer The Work and mentions Byron Katie seperately on her site. Is she not a facilitator? Why do you think she runs a BK forum? Could it be she was a facilitator and was deleted like Janaki and so (jumping ahead here) she runs a forum to appear authorized by BK? On the site she seems to post on anything and everything. Maybe. She might not want to give a commision to BK and set up her own shop. When I saw Cruz's post I typed in Byron Katie forum and Marelin's came up first on google.

Her profile says southern oregon but the phone number on her site is 818 (california) and a reverse lookup says it's a landline in Van Nuys CA. It's strange you can have her as your 'therapudist' and not even know where she is.

"Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients–without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate’s chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person’s illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved." ~Marelin on her Ho'oponopono practice

Byron Katie (the Work) and Marelin Thorton (aka Madame Snakeoil)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 10, 2009 04:48AM

Jay, by bogus BK certification, that means the "real" BK certification. Its bogus, in that it means nothing, in that all it is, is paying BK to be on her referral list. And she can revoke it anytime.
Its not like being a certified hotdog vendor by the city, where there is far more oversight!

Marelin Thorton is part of the underside of the BK work. There are dozens, or more, people who SELL the "work" but they do it on their own somehow. Whether they have to pay BK in someway, is unknown. BKI probably lets them do it, as long as they link and promote to the BK website, or maybe there is a fee or something.
There does not appear to be any statements that Marelin Thorton even took the BK LGAT. She may have just saw it was popular, got the books, and started selling it.

Same as the Ho'oponopono, and the 25 other things she sells.
Ho'oponopono is another scam, this one promoted by the king of internet Snake-Oil sell-anything, "Dr." Joe Vitale. Her comments about this "therapist" are from Joe Vitale, and are literal BS.
This was explored here in a thread about The Secret...

Ho'oponopono "Dr." Joe Vitale -one of the worst books in world history []

These people have no shame.
Its one thing to sell people the Sham-Wow, and rip them off for 20 bucks for a rag. Compared to these people, the Sham-Wow is a holy blanket. At least it doesn't hurt you.

But the arrogance of these people, to say they treat PTSD, when they are completely unqualified?
Why don't they say they do surgery in their basement?
Its like going to mexico to get plastic surgery in a back alley. You will get infected, and possibly die.

Some PTSD suicide attempt rates, run from 20%-70%. Its lethal.
And what has happened, is BK tells people verbally, and perhaps even on the website, that "the work" works for PTSD. This has been debunked in this thread, even to the point of showing there is no links to her and the veterans assoc she claims to work with.
There is not one word in any PTSD literature, of course. Its all BS.

Why would an untrained person, like BK, who says in her disclaimer she knows nothing about therapy or psychology, then be able to claim she can treat PTSD?
Its a type of loophole, they all slip-through, with word games and disclaimers.
Meanwhile, some people get duped, and then what?

So all these salespeople like a "Marelin Thorton" with website saying they can deal with PTSD, do they care if due to their ignorance, that suicides get triggered?
Or are they too arrogant to care?
Its a lethal combination of ignorance and arrogance, and is unbelievably common.

This is the darker underbelly of the BKI empire, all of these 3rd party people who make money selling the BK work. maybe with a licensing deal. How BK gets paid in this, is unknown, could be simply through automatic monthly "voluntary" donations from those who are BK true believers.
Its the folks like Stephen Sashen []

Internet marketing hucksters, preying on vulnerable people, and those in desperate pain due to PTSD.
Even worse, some of them claim to offer "free" PTSD "treatment" to veterans.
Even if done with good intentions, people are going to get hurt.
But its more likely a marketing ploy, and self-rationalization. Any decent person would never claim to help PTSD, and would just refer to trained experts.
If you want to help those with PTSD, help them raise funds to see proper experts in that area.

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