It's obvious that Byron Katie got a lot of her material from Krishnamurti, and many others, either directly from their books, or from those who copied their stuff. For example, Ken Keyes didn't make any of that stuff up, they were all copying from everyone else.
The old No-Mind = Enlightenment idea was big at the time, and everyone was marketing that.

Byron Katie took many Workshops of all kinds after she was at the halfway house, and most likely many before. It does seem she was there due to several points of information.
But its not hard to believe that a businessperson who was a boozer and pill-popper, etc, was sent to various Workshops, and even a halfway house to try and get cleaned-up.
People who were screwed-up at the time, usually got referred to one of those "Workshops" which were popular. Workshop = LGAT.
And customers in the LGAT seminar field are called Seminar Junkies, they all go to all of them, as of course they don't solve anything, and make you worse off in most cases.

So that is where she copied all of her LGAT techniques from, she didn't make any of those up, they are all standard methods. The LGAT's all copy eachother, and even send "spies" to copy everyone else's stuff!
She also clearly copied various others people's work, including the hypnotherapy work, and many other things as detailed in the thread.
On top of this, she also copied the methods of many eastern Guru's, and their systems of organization of unpaid "Staff" and recruiting new followers.

For any smart businesperson, it doesn't take you long when attending endless LGAT workshops and ashram/communes to see how much money is being made, and to think..."I can do this". Then they start up their own. That's how they all start.
But to sell your LGAT, you need a unique Story, that is job #1.
Even Werner Erhard had his fake "instant enlightenment story" of driving over the bridge.
So she just mimicked that, in her own way. Werner Erhard EST, is largely about your "stories" as well. She just added her own twist to it, and added it into the mix, constantly changing her names around as well.

The only thing somewhat unique about BK, is her adopting the idiot-savant characterization. but now even that has been shown in the book she co-wrote, Nog's Quest, which obviously is based on the other tripped-out novel Nog by Rudy Wurlitzer. She is playing the role of Nog.

In The Metamorphosis By Franz Kafka, Gregor wakes up in bed to discover his "transformation" into a cockroach.

The Naked Lunch by William S. Burroughs...is like an opiate drug-addicts consciousness (Byron Katie also claims an opiate addiction to codeine). [forum.culteducation.com]
Burroughs worked as a cockroach exterminator, and if you read his comments on coming out of his drug-addiction in his mid-40's, they are almost identical to her comments. There were cockroaches in the movie, do cockroaches star in the Naked Lunch book?

Don't you think an opiate-addicted intelligent literate person, would read classic novels about that subject? And those books would be on the shelves in rehab? Of course.


They have very carefully chosen to make things ambiguous, and mysterious, as that encourages psychological Projections. (another well-known method). Even now in their marketing, they encourage these exact same projections.
But as soon as you go back before around 1996, you can see the marketing images are different, as they had not yet settled on their Story.
So she has created a shrowd of faux-mystery around herself and her past, which is a common method as well. People used to say, "I went to Tibet for 3 years" but that got old and tired.

So its just a marketing Story, dreamed up to lure people in.
Even using the "weird" cockroach story is common in hypnotherapy story-telling, to enter into the dreamlike unconscious, using snakes, scorpions, to create primal digust and fear, etc. Its a hook, and the other stories hang from that hook.

By now, in this thread, the entire Byron Katie enterprise has been explained, from her Stories, to her techniques, to her corporate structure, recruiting methods, and everything else. There is no mystery anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2009 01:51PM by The Anticult.

Look at what Byron Katie is claiming, the spontaneous enlightenment. Friend Suzanne Segal also claimed to have it and so did Eckhart Tolle and Tony Parsons.

These people all use a method of inquiry, or self-inquiry, as a way for others to experience this spontaneous enlightenment.

Byron Katie says she relates her experience well to UG Krishnamurti, who in 1967, while sitting on a couch, experienced an explosion of energy. From this came the book The Mystique of Enlightenment in 1982, the same year that segal claims to have had her spontaneous experience. Byron Katie 1986. Eckhart Tolle claims he had his experience in 1978.

I'm not sure about Parsons but he authored 'As It Is: The Open Secret of Spritual Awakening' in 2000.

Yes. The only difference is the idiot-savant story where Katie claims to have had no prior knowledge of eastern philosophies.

In the 1966 JK was describing his method of self-inquiry followed by a turnaround.

"How do you answer this question? You are taking a road, going to some place, to your home. You ask someone and he tells you that you have taken the wrong road. You have walked a long, weary way, and you discover that the path or road doesn't lead to where you want to go. You make several inquiries, and you find for yourself that the road doesn't lead anywhere. Then, what do you do? You stop, turn around, and take the other road."

Saanen, 5th Public Talk, July 19, 1966. Page 66.

[books.google.com.au]

I originally thought she got it from that Bonnie Tyler song :P She looks like a Tyler fan.

Losing the Moon was published by the Work Foundation, Inc. so the copyright is probably not registered. The design looks like a backyard job. She possibly couldn't find anyone who would publish it. It is unreadable in my opinion.

Quote
Anticult
Strangley, Losing The Moon does not come up in the copyright database. If there was no copyright, its amazing some ruthess entrepreneur hasn't grabbed the book, and republished and sold it.
Unless it was written by a ghost-writer?
Or published under another pseudonym? How many other pseudonym's were used? Can anyone find anything?

If you look closely at both Katies and Tolles eyes you will see that they are dissociated! Especially Tolles! This look is often confused for the deeply present look of truly enlightend spiritual teachers. Tolle has pushed all of his stuff into deep recesses in his mind and is convinced that he has found enlightenment. When this coping mechanism fails, his mind will become flooded with the thoughts and feelings he has pushed asside for so long. It will be very tragic.

On review, the title page for Losing The Moon does list a copyright for 1998, it probably was not put into the main database.

The book Losing The Moon is quite unreadable for the unindocrinated reader.
But the book is terribly powerful for those who buy into it, too powerful to put out there. They have toned down the writing since then, and would use those more powerful methods verbally, only for people further inside the rabbit hole. BK does reveal many of her linguistic/verbal techniques in that book.

I've noticed there are many books in Zen about the "Moon". It would be interesting to see if there are any books by the Zen-mafia around BK who wrote books also using the Moon metaphor.

But the book Losing The Moon, is literally about people being led, to lose contact with reality, where they can't even find the moon in the sky. Its literally about deconstructing people's minds, until they don't even know which way is up.
In this way, its related to those psychedelic books above, where she got her other metaphors and ideas.
Its also about getting her readers/followers to Surrender to her, which is still her main method. She is using powerful symbolic language, with intent...
She establishes a language when she says "me" that means "you", it works better like that. She obviously does not live by any of these ideas she puts out there, they are all for the readers.
____________________________________________
p.151, Losing The Moon
QUOTE: "Talk about Hitler- it's you- in direct conflict with goodness. And that's my freedom - I don't care if I'm raped, or killed, or tortured, or old or young - I GIVE UP....Rape me? Good. Bring me wealth? Good. Take it all away? Good. Healthy? Good. Cancer? Good..."
_____________________________________
And its trying to passify the reader, to make them dissociate, to break down all of their natural healthy defenses.
She is saying here, in metaphor, that YOU are Hitler if you resist her, and your freedom is to be so passive as to allow yourself to be rape and robbed.
She does the exact same thing in her current YouTube "stories". In this type of metaphorical verbal persuasion, there are always symbolic meanings, that go directly to the unconcious. She was using the Cancer story even back then, and still uses it.

I've seen these methods used many times to help people, for example Milton Erickson's Teaching Tales about cactus, etc, which are very powerful.
But I've never seen them used like this, to literally break down peoples natural and healthy defenses. To try and condition people that being robbed, raped, and killed is "Good". (Jim Jones convinced hundreds that suicide was Good too, as have many others).
But its not necessarily about being actually raped, killed, tortured, or robbed, in the literal sense.
But metaphorically.
If your mind is raped, your identity is killed, your emotions tortured, and all your money "donated"...that's the program.
It's almost beyond what the normal person's conscience can even imagine. But you can open the book almost at random and find similar examples...(pg 146, "The Work....sets you up to be crucified"
Its there in the text, which is why this book had to be burnt.

____________________________________________
p.151, Losing The Moon
QUOTE: "Talk about Hitler- it's you- in direct conflict with goodness. And that's my freedom - I don't care if I'm raped, or killed, or tortured, or old or young - I GIVE UP....Rape me? Good. Bring me wealth? Good. Take it all away? Good. Healthy? Good. Cancer? Good..."
_____________________________________


Losing The Moon, Nazi's, etc
[forum.culteducation.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
Jay Cruise
Losing the Moon was published by the Work Foundation, Inc. so the copyright is probably not registered. The design looks like a backyard job. She possibly couldn't find anyone who would publish it. It is unreadable in my opinion.

Quote
Anticult
Strangley, Losing The Moon does not come up in the copyright database.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2009 04:32PM by The Anticult.

There are lots of links between Byron Katie and Stever Robbins, interviews, reviews, blog-posts, than can be found with a search.

Below is one of the Stever Robbins pages, with links to all of the NLP, Gregory Bateson anthropologist; and Milton Erickson hypnotist info.
[www.steverrobbins.com]
Stever Robbins has been around NLP since 1978, and is a NLP Master Trainer, and NLP Master Practitioner. He's connected with Richard Bandler and Persuasion Engineering.
[www.steverrobbins.com]

Did Stever Robbins train Byron Katie privately in these techniques?

Someone did. Original NLP became a dirty word, so they have taken it into other areas.
How can Stever Robbins promote Byron Katie, when looking at the extreme abuse of these powerful techniques, on people who have no idea of what is happening to them?
This has to be one of the worse abuses of these NLP hypnosis techniques on record, an abusive NLP Master Practitioner run amok.


You can search for:
"byron katie" NLP

and some links are starting to come up. More old NLPers are trying to get in on the gravy-train.
[www.all-about-nlp.com]
QUOTE:
"There is also a negative side to NLP. It can be used badly by unlicensed programmers, it can be used to sell products, or for 'speed seduction.' ...
The edges of the vast realm called NLP are fuzzy. For instance, you'll often find NLP melded with hypnotherapy, law of attraction, the work of Byron Katie, ...

The Work and NLP [www.myconsulting.dk]

[www.nlpcafe.co.uk]
QUOTE: "The subject of this month’s meeting will be an NLP version of ‘The Work’ a self development process created by Byron Katie. Although she doesn’t mention NLP in her work there are many NLP aspects in her approach..."

Oh, I got to the fifth page and her lack of correct pronouns and subject made me ditch the book. It seriously reminded me of conversations with schitzophrenic patients.

She actually says:

"Can you know that Hitler didn't bring more to realization than Jesus did?" (Page 39)

The baby is 'you' and therefore the relationship parents have with their baby is an illusion. Hitler detroyed this illusion bringing people to realization.

So she is saying that Hitler is Jesus-like and a mother caring for her baby is in direct conflict with Hitler's 'goodness'.

Read it in that context. Yeah that is fucked up.

Stephen Mitchell is jewish. I wonder what he has to say about this?

There were some previous posts about Byron Katie and the Nazi's. That's another reason they burned Losing The Moon, if the media saw that, she would have to be responsible for her words.

Byron Katie QUOTE: "God is the Nazi too"
[forum.culteducation.com]


But the "weird" language in that book, is instantly recognizable as what is called Trance-Logic.
They deliberately mess with the grammar, as that induces confusion in the subject. Very standard technique.
They also played with tenses, as I just am. (see it? They fill it up with hundreds of those, it trips people out eventually).

There is also a technique called Sleight-Of-Mouth, designed by Robert Dilts from NLP. (search Google for)

"Sleight of Mouth"

There are almost no random words in Losing The Moon. There are some deliberate "nonsense filler", and she still uses that. But it is some very sophisticated, and powerful material.
Its intent was clearly stated in its title, Losing The Moon.
But ironically, she was too obvious in her methods, as they were transcripts, so they killed it.
Her new books are similar, but are toned down a lot, for the general audience.

But once a person buys into the Byron Katie system completely, then they literally could believe anything.
Literally.
That is the goal.
And she is using those incredibly powerful and complex techniques, that it seems very few people know even exist.

That is why the recent report of people at her seminar losing it, going lunatic and losing the moon, is not surprising in the least, that's precisely what's going to happen.
They will lose the moon, and lose the mind, lose their identity, lose their soul, lose their assets.

And these ______ who know exactly what she is doing, and are turning a blind-eye, they are going to have to face their own conscience one-day, if they have one left.
Its truly psychopathic to run amok with this stuff, and hammer regular people over the head with this sledgehammer. Its insane. People can easily be almost completely taken apart in a few days if they don't resist.

And when the serious shit hits the fan in the next few years, they will feign ignorance, as they already made their millions. Millions a month are being fleeced from the golden geese, and the orgy is accelerating, just the recent seminar would have cleared 1.5 million easily, plus any large donations on top of that.

Its just a chess game to them, and the Queen doesn't worry about the pawns.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2009 07:29PM by The Anticult.

Boy, this thread moves fast! I'm not so sure there's no more mystery to Katie. I'd appreciate more NLP and textual analysis of her works, and more inside info. I also feel there's more that needs to be on the record.

So, I'd like to react to Anticult's spot-on analysis of the article "Fasting Friends" from my perspective as a member of the target audience. (Incidentally, the vacation this article describes doesn't come across to me as something just for the ladies-who-lunch crowd. I see it also as a spa trip younger thirty-something women might do.)

So much has been written about importance of close friendships in women's lives that I don't feel I need to comment beyond 2 small examples.

1. My mom talks to her best friend since grade school at least once a day.

2. When the author of "Fasting Friend" writes "My best friend, sitting beside me, suppresses a giggle as she hands over her cup," I immediately flash on a fond memory of the time one of my best friends and I hopped on the escalator in a VERY staid, ritzy-ditzy department store and rode up and down waving at ourselves in the mirrors like maniacs while giggling uncontrollably. You had to be there. And every woman _has_ been there. I completely connected with this article's 'week-end away with the best friend' vibe, and I'd like to throw this author in jail for sliming my memories.

This article WORKS. Because I've learned so much about NLP and Ericksonian story-telling from this thread, I understood what the author was doing, and felt anger and disgust at being manipulated and deceived ---but I still experienced the intended emotions. My knowledge, and Anticult's spot-on analysis, didn't change the fact that this article keyed into my psyche and aroused pleasurable memories and a variety of feelings. Its main focus, body image, isn't all that relevant to me, but if it were, the article would have worked there, too. I totally understand that if I go on one of these week-ends, I'll learn to replace food with Katie. Calorie-free Katie.

This article alarms me because it's a very serious play for a vast untapped market for cult leaders: women in the 30-60 age-range. These women are already a key demographic (perhaps THE key demographic) for enlightenment purveyors of all stripes, but not so much for cult leaders. Being in a cult is time consuming, and time is the one thing most women do not have.

Even if they did, a male guru could never present himself as a wise older mentor who can show you how to handle your issues while hanging with you and your girls in a luxury spa. Besides, telling your boyfriend or husband you're going away for a girls' week-end whose main attraction is a guy would be tricky. But Katie's a woman! She's the mother we all dream of. A vacation and enlightenment! It's safe.

I've never seen any other cult approach potential victims in such subtle and sophisticated ways --has anyone?

I'm reposting the link to the "Fast(ing) Friends" article by Lauren Gard, since I had to go hunt for the link so I could read the article myself:

[[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29722823/]Fast(ing) Friends Meet For Detoxifying Treat[/url]]

Quote
Christa
So, I'd like to react to Anticult's spot-on analysis of the article "Fasting Friends" from my perspective as a member of the target audience. (Incidentally, the vacation this article describes doesn't come across to me as something just for the ladies-who-lunch crowd. I see it also as a spa trip younger thirty-something women might do.)