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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 06, 2008 10:25PM

There may be a new way to enhance what has been discussed on the thread

Manipulating the Room Environment

[forum.culteducation.com]

There are gurus and what appear to be LGATs now doing events in foreign
countries in glamorous sounding locations.

So, we need to supplement our understanding of Manipulating the Room Environment by considering the impact on subjects on being sent
to fly through various time zones to foreign countries before even attending a 'retreat' 'intensive' 'satsang' or whatever it will be called.

How well has any of us exercised critical thinking when jet lagged, eh? One doesnt think of travelling to a foreign country as mind bending, but hello,
just recall how you've felt when tooling around by plane even, just from LAX to NYC.

Remember too, if you are all bunched together in a hotel when not doing the LGAT, you're more easily monitored. You lack the privacy and access to normal personal rituals that you have at home. You're surrounded by strangers. If you piss or moan, it might well be reported to the handlers.

If in a foreign country, you cant even read your hometown newspaper or watch your favorite TV show. All this sounds minor but these little rituals
do play a role in helping human beings get grounded and remember who they are.

And (I know I am pulling for a laugh but this is how radical adding travel can be)--even the TOILETS in a foreign country may be radically different.

Ive heard stories galore about how infamously rough some brands of German TP can be. Imagine the sheer power of being jet lagged by flying from the US to Germany, unfamiliar TP, you cant even wake up your own special way, maybe by smootching your cat or getting a big sloppy kiss and a face full of hair from your dog, you cant sit on the can with your favorite
newspaper, and...if you're in France or Germany, even the toilets may be
quite different.

Ive heard and read that some German toilets have a little ledge or shelf specifically designed so people can study their fecal output before flushing it away.

If you're not used to beginning your day that way, you're going to be 'trippin' before that LGAT even begins...and it has begun, by flying you away from all your habits in the US.

(for more on german toilets read here)

[www.google.com]


(Even when I talk about shit, I try never to give people bullshit)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2008 10:35PM by corboy.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 06, 2008 10:53PM

At Byron Katie dot com, the figurehead sez:

Quote

I'm thrilled to be in Europe again this summer. This may be my last visit for a while. The body says "slow down" and mind says "keep going until everyone in the world has The Work".
How megalomaniacal, to presume that everyone in the world needs the work.

One can only hope it will be her last visit to Europe, or anywhere. I certainly am hoping so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2008 10:55PM by helpme2times.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 06, 2008 11:14PM

There is a rug merchant whose store has a going out of business sign.

Ive seen that same sign for the past 3 years.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 02:41AM

Quote
corboy
There is a rug merchant whose store has a going out of business sign.

Ive seen that same sign for the past 3 years.
Ha! If only she were selling rugs!

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Re: Byron Katie International (the Work) and Andy Bernstein, BKI
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 04:36AM

One wonders about Andy Bernstein and Byron Katie International.
There does not appear to be any corporate info at all on the Byron Katie website, of course. No list of directors, or management. No open disclosure.

There is a slick Andy Bernstein who sells "Mental Yoga".
Wonder if that is the same person?
[www.newliving.com]


Quote
helpme2times
Quote
Daphne
Byron Katie is as advertised.
I think that says a lot, Daphne stating, "Byron Katie is as advertised."

Advertised. Marketed. Sold.

From the L.A. Times article on Byron Katie, "How A Self-Help Guru is Born," which I highly recommend people to read:

Andy Bernstein, director of Byron Katie International, is a bit more focused than his boss, who doesn't seek out forums for sharing The Work. "I'm pushing it," Bernstein says. "We don't just answer phone calls. It's not as passive as it seems. We have a product: four questions, and a spokesperson: Katie. It moves the way any product moves, whether it's Nike sneakers or anything else."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 04:57AM by The Anticult.

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Byron Katie School, Germany, July 2008, QUOTE: "God is the Nazi too"
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 04:55AM

One has to wonder what the media in Germany, and German citizens will have to say about Byron Katie's many statements about Hitler and the Nazi's and the Holocaust, that she made in her recent book published in 1998, Losing The Moon.

___________________________________________________________
QUOTES from Byron Katie book, "Losing The Moon".
Byron Katie QUOTES: "God is the Nazi too" (p55) "I AM GOD" (p.91)
[forum.culteducation.com]
"God is the Nazi too". (P. 55)

"I AM GOD" (p 91)
They open the book with this quote:
"EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS A LIE. BUT ONLY EVERYTHING".

Byron Katie says the Holocaust was the work of God?
[forum.culteducation.com]
QUOTE from LOSING THE MOON: (page 29)
Friend: You've said that the heart will do whatever it takes. It will rape a child, it will murder 6 million Jews. It'll do whatever it takes. I really just got that, really, literally.

Byron Katie: It is love, and we can tell all the stories we want about how its not, and it is. Its not even misguided. It is what it is, always. [..] even the suicidal things are natural. Everything is natural...every taste, every thing is God. [...] I hear the word "Katie" its the name of God. "I" God.


Byron Katie: Nazi's burning Jewish babies was the work of "God"
[forum.culteducation.com]
(on page 35, of LOSING THE MOON, Byron Katie starts talking about Nazi's taking babies from Jewish mothers and throwing the babies into a firepit near the end of WWII.)

QUOTE:
_____________________________________
"If Someone (God, "what is"), pulls my baby from me - if that's what it takes, I'm there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in the fire....My discomfort is my war with God. [...]
You see, there are NO choices. What is, is. [...]
But when we get to the baby thing, we're getting down to our sacred little concepts now....You take my baby from me, you're messing with the illusion of I'm the mommy, this is the baby, there's the daddy...
But tearing the baby away- that's the higher. That's the higher, because it snatches your story from you and makes it apparent in your face - nothing's real short of reality....
That's it. That's what is. That's love. That's absolutely Un-describable love. That you, God, would even give me that.
Can you know that Hitler didn't bring more people to realization than Jesus? On your knees - God. God! God! But our stories of reality keep us from the awareness of God is Everything. And God is Good. [...]

There has never been evil and there never will be. Evil is simply a story about what's not...
But I have trashed the baby when I have trashed the Nazi...
I am the baby going into the pit. I am the one throwing the baby in the pit..."
___________________________________________________



(indexing reference)
_________________________________________________

Losing the Moon: Byron Katie Dialogues on Non-Duality, Truth and Other Illusions (Paperback)
by Byron Katie (Author), Ellen J. Mack (Editor)

Byron Katie - ebook - Losing The Moon (complete).pdf

Product download Details
Paperback Torrent
Publisher: The Work Foundation, Inc.; First Printing edition (1998)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1890246069
ISBN-13: 978-1890246068





_____________________________________________________________________

Quote

Hey, for anyone who is looking for tickets for sale on Craigslist or Ebay for Byron Katie's upcoming events in Europe (Amsterdam, Stuttgart, Bad Neuenahr)... PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING POSTS FIRST!!

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53392#msg-53392]Byron Katie - Strong Concerns[/url]]

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53402#msg-53402]Byron Katie's School and Turnaround House[/url]]

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53514#msg-53514]Surrendering Personal Property to Byron Katie[/url]]

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53507#msg-53507]Byron Katie's School - A Family Member's Perspective[/url]]

Event Description:
The School For The Work
July 25 - August 3, 2008
Dorint Parkhotel
Hardtstrasse 2a / Am Dahliengarten
D-5374 Bad Neuenahr - Ahrweiler
Germany
Tuition: $3,600 (if early, otherwise it is $4,600)
Room and board, double occupancy: an additional 950 Euro

A question to ask yourself... Why does it cost so much to do The Work in person with Byron Katie, and why the strict cancellation policy?

Quote

All cancellations must be submitted in writing. If your cancellation is received nine (9) or more days in advance of the School, your tuition and room and board costs will be refunded less a $600 non-refundable deposit. If you cancel eight (8) days or less in advance of the School, your tuition will be refunded less room and board costs we must pay the hotel and less a $600 non-refundable deposit. If you do not send advance written notice of your cancellation, if you do not show up, or if you leave The School early, your payment is non-refundable and non-transferable.

Another question to ask yourself... Are you willing to sign a legal disclaimer before doing The Work with Byron Katie? You are asked to sign a disclaimer before participating in Byron Katie's Hotline, and there are reports that you must sign one just before starting The School. Why would that be necessary?

Quote

Disaimer of Liability By using The Work Hotline, you assume all risks associated with calling the volunteer Facilitators. BKI shall not, in any event, be liable for any actions taken on the part of the caller or Facilitator during or after the use of this Hotline. Each individual caller and Facilitator is fully responsible for all interactions that take place between the two parties. BKI is not responsible for, nor does it endorse, any interaction between the two parties and assumes no liability for or related to those interactions.

There are also reports that people have been duped into giving up valuable possessions to Byron Katie on the last day of The School -- such as wedding rings and heirlooms. One couple is said to have surrendered approx. $100,000 IN JEWELRY.

PLEASE be a discerning consumer and learn whatever you can about what REALLY goes on in Byron Katie's School and other events, before surrendering your precious mind (and possessions) to "The Work".

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Andy Bernstein Mental Yoga
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 05:24AM

Quote
The Anticult
One wonders about Andy Bernstein and Byron Katie International.
There does not appear to be any corporate info at all on the Byron Katie website, of course. No list of directors, or management. No open disclosure.

There is a slick Andy Bernstein who sells "Mental Yoga".
Wonder if that is the same person?
[www.newliving.com]
It sure seems to be the same Andy Bernstein:

"Consequently, by working with your mind, you can make peace with stressful thoughts before they take you to the refrigerator..."

"Now imagine that, instead of believing it, you questioned your thought: "I need to lose weight. Is this "need" actually true or false?"

"Through the insight gained by questioning your belief, you lose the mental weight of that belief. The same thought that makes millions of Americans depressed would now no longer be true (or as true) for you, and as a result, you wouldn't react the same way to it in the future."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 05:25AM by helpme2times.

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Byron Katie School, Germany, July 2008, Isaac Shapiro, Eckhart Tolle
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 12:03PM

In the banned Byron Katie book...Losing The Moon...(very important book, which is why it was shredded)...
...there are links between Byron Katie and a Guru in Germany named Isaac Shapiro.

Byron Katie: "Isaac Shapiro - He is my friend, I am his."

One has to wonder if his organization is involved with the Byron Katie LGAT seminar tour in GErmany and Europe?

Isaac Shapiro...one wonders if he and his Gurus like Ramana Maharshi were hooked in with Eckhart Tolle at some point? There are a lot of links coming up, there has to be something in there somewhere...if you search Google for...

"isaac shapiro" "eckhart tolle" "Ramana Maharshi" Papaji

If found, would give a direct connection with Byron Katie, Ramana Maharshi, and Eckhart Tolle, and Papji.
It does seem plausible that Eckhart Tolle was linked with Isaac Shapiro, or the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, and Papji, which of course he pretends he did not. Eckhart Tolle has his park bench story, and Byron Katie has her cockroach story. (dang that is smart to pretend you never studied all these other people's books...very crafty...that is somewhat of a new angle...the opposite to connecting oneself to past Guru's...)
It would be interesting if these folks knew eachother on the Papaji circuit...


(Below is some PR material from Isaac Shapiro, get ready to be led into a light-Trance...Isaac Shapiro is also using light trance-logic language even in general promo materials).

[www.isaacshapiro.de]
EXCERPT:
For some time you have been quite involved with ‘the work’ of Byron Katie. This year you seem to be more into awareness directly.’
‘In my experience, the Katie work has been integrated. I don’t use it as ‘the work’, but what it gave me is totally integrated in my speaking now. There was still a capacity to project and not recognize those projections. Now it is almost impossible. It is seen as soon as it moves. When someone else speaks, that same capacity is there. I guess with anything in your life, at first it is somebody else’s and when it’s integrated you can’t call it yours or theirs or whatever. It is what you know.’

-----------------------
Isaac Shapiro is an internationally known facilitator, fascinated with life lived in alignment with the world's wisdom traditions. ...
His approach is to ask questions and make statements. He asks participants in his meetings to question and see if what he says is true in their own being. This approach points to what is already known, but obscured in the ways our nervous system and our thinking function.
...
"Through noticing how our cells respond in the experience of now, there is a noticing of the production of not only the sense of reality but also the sense of self that we believe we have."
...
The beauty of this invitation is that nothing needs to be changed, fixed, or eliminated. It is a non-dualistic, non-judgmental enquiry into our present being. Everything happens through the agency of awareness.

As we bring awareness to these unconscious habits, there is a shift that occurs. In the course of investigation, people spontaneously recognize the true nature of themselves, which many report as the experience of peace, unconditional love, compassion, or simply of being home.
___________________________________________



Quote

The editor of the book "Losing The Moon" was Ellen J. Mack. (who appears to have vanished or changed her name).
In the intro she does talk about various Eastern style Gurus.

Gangaji (same age as Byron Katie)
Papaji
Robert Adams
Isaac Shapiro

and Byron Katie in the book is very familiar with these Gurus.

Ramana Maharshi
Annamalai Swami



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 12:30PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie School, Germany, July 2008, Isaac Shapiro, Eckhart Tolle
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 09:38PM

Quote
The Anticult
Isaac Shapiro...one wonders if he and his Gurus like Ramana Maharshi were hooked in with Eckhart Tolle at some point? There are a lot of links coming up, there has to be something in there somewhere...
Ramana Maharshi seems to have been a rather saintly guy. I've never uncovered any "dirt" on him. (I will be happy to be corrected on this should anything arise.)

Ramana died in 1950, so there is no direct connection between him and Byron Katie.

But people like Gangaji claim to be in Ramana Maharshi's "lineage". I think that is partly how they hook people in. It worked on me!

Until I found out that Ramana never designated a lineage.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 07, 2008 09:50PM

Concerning Maharshi, Poonja (aka Papaji), Gangaji, and the Seekers Scene

Ramana Maharshi's name is invoked for legitimation purposes by quite a few who seek to create resumes for themselves and it appears a key stem in this 'resume pedigree' was someone named HWL Poonja who went by the name Papaji among those devoted to him.

Ive read some scattered citations that after Rajneesh self destructed, a lot of his orphaned followers took up with Poonja/Papaji. This might be worth a Google session.

Regarding Poonja--his first major influence was on Andrew Cohen

[essentialwhatenlightenment.blogspot.com]


plus two memoirs in book form, Enlightement Blues (2003)-Andre van der Braak (left after 11 years in 1998)and The Mother of God (1997) by Luna Tarlo--Cohen's own mother, who left after 3 years, in 1989. Tarlo saw a great deal of Poonja and her descriptions are of the utmost interest.

Sudden Enlightenment, Instant Teaching Credentials-Poonja Style

Andrew Cohen reportedly achieved sudden enlightenment following his
meeting HWL Poonja (papaji) and then after just a couple of weeks, Poonja told Andrew to go out and 'start a revolution amongst the young'.

To learn more about Poonja and Andrew Cohen get and read a memoir by Andrew Cohen's own mother, Luna Tarlo, entitled 'The Mother of God.'

[Poonja, according to Tarlo, went around telling quite a few people they were enlightened, including Luna herself. In her case, she didnt feel any different and she reported this merely made her feel confused and more dependent on the people who had told her this.

Maharshi Reportedly Left No Lineage and Designated No Heir

Later, in the process of leaving her son, Luna had a conversation with a friend of hers who met an Indian born professor of philosophy Naryayana Moorty, who taught (in the 1980s) at Monterey Community College in Monterey California.

Tarlo wrote (pages 251--252, Mother of God) ''In the course of a long conversation, Andrew (Cohen) was mentioned. July told Professor Moorty that Andrew was a guru in the lineage of Ramana Maharshi., and Professor Moorty interrupted her to say--and this surprised Julie--that Ramana Maharshi had no official disciples and no official lineage.'

Poonja/Papaji had claimed to be in the lineage of Maharshi.

But...Maharshi had died in the 1950s, honored, celebrated...and in no position to contradict claims made by those eager to use his numinous name as a source of legitimation.

Poonja Dumps Andrew Cohen and according to van der Braak and Tarlo, Designates Gangaji

(Gangaji, formerly known as Antoinette Warner or Varner, was, according to the accounts given by Tarlo and van der Braak, a student of Andrew's and then left him and became a student of Poonja's.

After Andrew Cohen and Poonja quarrelled and broke up, Andrew later became involved with Ken Wilber, and gradually Andrew Cohen's What Is Enlightenment? magazine turned into a house-organ for KW's ideology, what some have termed 'Wilberism'. Andrew's earlier tie to Poonja was set aside and gradually de-emphasized.

Meanwhile, Poonja took over Antoinette as his protege, though some accounts state that Eli Jaxon Bear was the one who introduced them.

In 2003, Andre van der Braak, the first editor of Andrew Cohen's What is Enlightenment? magasine, and who had left Andrew after having been his disciple for 11 years, wrote a memoir, Enlightenment Blues. (Andrew has a substantial following in the Netherlands and German speaking countries--interesting for an American born guru-entrepreneur)

Andre van der Braak mentions this:

'Many of them come to (Andrew Cohen) expecting to find a teacher of enlightenment will give them a profound spiritual experience. Instead they are told off about their lack of willingness to change themselves. Many people perceive this as a kind of moralizing they can do without, and decide to go to the source itself, and visit Poonja in India, as do some of the students whove been sent away from the community by Andrew. To their relief, and to Andrew's displeasure, they receive a warm welcome. Some of them, having received Poonja's enlightement, are sent back to the West to teach others.

'The most important of these is an American woman named Antoinette Varner, who had been with Andrew in satsang a few months before going off to see Poonja. Poonja gives her the name Gangaji and snds her out to teach in places where Andrew has been teaching. He tells her to "clean up after Andrew" restore the proper understanding of Advaita Vedanta, and heal any egos that have been wounded. We hear that Poonja talks about us as "sheep" that merely follow an authority, which he considers antithetical to true freedom and enlightenment."

(quoted from pages 101-102 of Enlightenment Blues by Andre van der Braak), 2002

Luna Tarlo, Andrew's mother, who left him in 1989, writes in her 1997 memoir:

'A lot of what Poonja said about Andrew was true, that he couldnt tolerate being criticized that his disciples were afraid of him, and that Andrew's notion of communal sangha life was for sheep. But the fact was, Poonja couldnt stand being criticized, either. And he had shown himself to be a hypocrite. For example, I heard he told a former student of Andrew's now called Gangaji, and presently operating successfully as a guru out of Hawaii, he had been waiting for her too, all of his life, and as he had said, after teaching Andrew, he ws ready to die! (She subsequently became Poonja's replacement for Andrew...When I met Poonja for the first time in India, he was a man in his seventies, who after many years as a guru, had suprisingly few followers. I think' writes Tarlo 'he was hungry for fame, and when he met Andrew (Cohen) he must have seen a golden opportunity to broadcast his name in America by inflaming this young person's impressionable mind with ideas of 'starting a revolution amongst the young'.

'Then, when Andrew turned out to be unsuitable, it took him no time at all to find a replacement from amonst Andrew's disaffected following. And the strategy worked. He (Poonja--since dead) is now regarded as one of Indias foremost gurus.' (Luna Tarlo, The Mother of God, 1997,286-287)


Poonja Claims He Never Enlightened Anyone

After acquring disciples for himself, Poonja Poonja allegedly stated that he never enlightened anyone and that he was pestered by people who kept asking him.

Around the time Poonja told Andrew Cohen he was enlightened, he told the same thing to another man, Karl and, as he had told Andrew, P told Andrew he was qualified to teach. But...Karl was wise enough not to.

Karl wrote:

"much abridged)

[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]

Back to my story, I'd waited long enough to meet Poonja. A former Muktananda Swami and I somehow got permission to visit Poonja in Delhi. We left Andrew and crew in Rishikesh.

Within a few weeks of meeting him in Delhi, Poonja Ji had declared me enlightened as well, and given me permission to teach as he had given Andrew permission to teach. I believe I was the second appointed teacher of Poonja's.

((It seems highly dysfunctional in relation to all the Asian traditions to declare someone is ready to teach after just a few weeks-it takes longer than that to learn to be a capable bike mechanic))

At this point, I don't believe Poonja had an idea of what exactly he expected from his emissaries. It was certainly not the case, as some have suggested, that Andrew's role was to attract followers to Poonja Ji in Lucknow. Poonja's health was in serious question in 1986. He had no ashram, no attendant disciples, no history of collecting followers, and there was no talk of changing that. He didn't even have a "teaching" in a conventional sense.
.....

The reason I relate the story above is for the sake of those who would make the "enlightened" man's behavior and pronouncements infallible and sacrosanct. I was, and am, more than capable of mistakes of all sorts, of being swayed by lust and greed, and plenty of other weaknesses and vices. I am totally confident that Andrew is in the same boat, only with his own individual set of faults and vices. '......

Unfortunately, we are all silly humans with faults. Our ego is scum floating on the ocean of truth and it gets slimy over anything that emerges from that ocean. It's easy to see how a man, observing "miracles" happening in his presence, being showered with love, respect, and obedience from everyone around him, could believe that his scum was as pure as the ocean below.

When I returned to the United States, I determined that if I were to serve the Truth with integrity, I wouldn't depend on the "Andrew method" of proclaiming myself be the Most High and expecting folks to fall in line. I would let the Spirit guide my destiny.

It turned out that I quickly fell in love, fell into drama, and fell into more attachment than I had suffered in my "pre-enlightenment" phase. I moved through those challenges but am not fooled that my human side is obliterated or beyond influence.

I'm happy to suspect that I've had a positive influence on my friends and community nonetheless, without placing myself in an unnatural position of power and authority in relation to them. "

Here Poonja, aka Papaji claims he never enlightened anyone. He comes across less as a father and more like a petulant man who resented the responsiblity of caring for all the needy people who showed up on his doorstep after he had put himself into the very role that elicits regression and neediness--BEING A GURU AND ADVERTISED AS SUCH (sorry to shout)

Poonja Disowning Responsiblity for the Regression He Elicited (My Reading--C)

[uarelove1.tripod.com]

David Godman interviews Papaji:

David: “You used to give experiences to a lot of people.
Why did you do it if you knew that the effect would not be permanent?”

Papaji: “I did it to get rid of the leeches who were sticking to me,
never allowing me to rest or be by myself.
It was a very good way of getting rid of all these leeches in a polite way.

I knew that in doing this I was giving lollipops to the ignorant and innocent, but this is what these people wanted.

When I tried to give $100 bills to them, they rejected them. They thought that they were just pieces of paper. So I gave them lollipops instead.


David: Many of the people you gave lollipops to left Lucknow thinking that they were enlightened.

Does the fact that they accepted the lollipop and left indicate that they were not worthy to receive the $100 bills?


Papaji: “If one is not a holy person, one is not worthy to receive the real teaching. Many people think that they have attained the final state of full and complete liberation.

They have fooled themselves, and they have fooled many other people,
But they have not fooled me. A person in this state is like a fake coin. It may look like the real thing. It can be passed around and used by ignorant people who use it to buy things with.

People who have it in their pocket can boast of having a genuine coin,
but it is not real. It has no value. When it is finally discovered to be a fake, the person who is circulating it, claiming that it is real,is subject to the penalties of the law.


In the spiritual world, the law of karma catches up and deals with all people who are trafficking in fake experiences. I have never passed on the truth to those whom I could see were fake coins.

These people may look like gold and they may glitter like gold, but they have no real value. There are many people who can put on a show and fool other people into believing they are enlightened.”


“Why does hearing the truth only work in a small percentage of cases?
The simple answer to that is that only a small percentage of people are interested in the truth.”


David: “Many people have heard you say, ‘I have not given my final teachings to anyone’. What are these final teachings, and why are you not giving them out?”


Papaji: “Nobody is worthy to receive them. Because it has been my experience that everybody has proved to be arrogant and egotistic…
I don’t think anyone is worthy to receive them.”

David: “Though Papaji has consistently said that a living human Guru is essential for those seeking liberation, he does not intend to appoint anyone to carry on his teaching duties when he dies.

He remarked in one of his satsangs a few years ago,

‘Wherever there is a lineage, impurity enters,’ and cited several instances to back up his statement.”

Interesting to note that many of those who teach using Papaji’s name
talk about their lineage. How gracious of Papaji to give so many pointers to let us know that all those who are teaching and giving supposed “satsang” in his name are false coins.

Papaji said that he had only met two Jnanis (Awakened, Enlightened, Liberated Sages) in his lifetime. One was Sri Ramana Maharshi. The other was a man who came from out of the Jungle near Krishnagiri ( a city in South India).

Sometimes Papaji would add one or two people to that list.However, never did Papaji add any of the people who came to see him in Lucknow,
or any of the people who teach using his name, etc. to that list.

It is clear then, that none of the thousands of people who came to Lucknow to be in Satsang with Papaji are Liberated Sages according to Papaji. ..."


i]**(What is fascinating in reading Luna Tarlo's description of how her son changed after his encounter with Poonja, reads also like a sudden cure narrative. However, Andrew had been an avid spiritual reader and seeker before he went to India, so he might have had chances to learn from quite a few people before meeting Poonja. He did a layover studying Insight/Buddhist meditation and may have studied elsewhere, as well. The full roster of teachers AC studied with prior to Poonja may may never be known. Tarlo, Cohen's mother may not have known and in her memoir, made it seem Poonja was the sole agent of her son's transformation into a guru.

It is worth recalling that psychologist Len Oakes in his book Prophetic Charisma tells us that the 20 spiritual leaders he had interviewed had spent years in various forms of self education before they went public. C)[/i]

Confused yet?



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 10:17PM by corboy.

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