A new participant report on the Byron Katie LGAT seminar
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 19, 2009 02:13AM
A new participant report on the Byron Katie LGAT seminar [forum.culteducation.com]
Re: A new participant report on the Byron Katie LGAT seminar
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: December 19, 2009 02:35AM
Is it just me or do you wish we had the ability to change the name of this thread? Just to see "legit" and a "?" anywhere near Katie or Tolle's name is just too much of a gray area. No big deal, but I guess it just drives me nuts to see a sentence that implies any doubt whatsoever that Katie or Tolle aren't scoundrels.
Re: A new participant report on the Byron Katie LGAT seminar
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 20, 2009 02:26AM
Of course the BK LEGIT? name of the thread came spontaneously from a poster.
But what is interesting, is a new age cultish groups use that technique consciously. They target the doubting mind with a question...like...
Is Byron Katie legit or some type of new age cult?
This draws in the doubting mind...then they answer the question for you, by specific methods of thought shaping. As a matter of fact, a while back the Byron Katie website added some Q&A on her website about...is Byron Katie a cult?
Then of course they twist the answers, redefine the words, and twist it around to their own advantage.
SGI does that, Royal Way does that, Byron Katie does that. They all do it.
They add the cult word, and then use it like mental judo to lure in doubters and handle objections.
If this were a deceptive forum, people would make posts claiming how wonderful Byron Katie is, to lure in BK believers...then slowly add in little pieces of doubt, to modify their beliefs over a period of weeks and months. Bait & Switch.
But of course, this forum just calls it like it is.
Byron Katie has been almost completely exposed in these threads, top to bottom.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2009 02:29AM by The Anticult.
But what is interesting, is a new age cultish groups use that technique consciously. They target the doubting mind with a question...like...
Is Byron Katie legit or some type of new age cult?
This draws in the doubting mind...then they answer the question for you, by specific methods of thought shaping. As a matter of fact, a while back the Byron Katie website added some Q&A on her website about...is Byron Katie a cult?
Then of course they twist the answers, redefine the words, and twist it around to their own advantage.
SGI does that, Royal Way does that, Byron Katie does that. They all do it.
They add the cult word, and then use it like mental judo to lure in doubters and handle objections.
If this were a deceptive forum, people would make posts claiming how wonderful Byron Katie is, to lure in BK believers...then slowly add in little pieces of doubt, to modify their beliefs over a period of weeks and months. Bait & Switch.
But of course, this forum just calls it like it is.
Byron Katie has been almost completely exposed in these threads, top to bottom.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2009 02:29AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 20, 2009 11:16PM
Co-opting the term cult and then de-activating it...or the domesticization of skepticism.
An analogy
Its like taking a sharp sharp foreign object, such as a knife (eg the term cult as Robert J Lifton defined it)....then using the thought shaping to wraping layers of masking tape around the super sharp knife blade so that it grows blunt.
Or the way the human body, when healthy, secretes layers of calcium to surround TB
bacteria, forming calcium 'tubercules' to keep the the bacteria walled off, unablet to further invade the lungs and spreading throughout the body.
Other methods of mental judo to deal with the scary word 'cult'
* Jokes. Make jokes about it, turn it into a silly joke and by extension make the person who brought the word up, seem foolish
*Distraction. Dump on other gurus who have been abusive, but use this to deflect attention away from your group.
* Minimize by saying all of society is cultic or claim (this is favorite) that the Armed Forces and Marines are cults. (This ignores that you KNOW, beforehand that you are enlisting in the service. And, though far, far from perfect and desperately in need of reform, the Armed Forces have something cults do not...a system of health care for injured veterans. Cults are use and dispose organizations and dont have their equivalent of the Veterans Administration or Congressional oversight. Reporters publish coverage of troubles at the VA without fear of being sued--another difference.
*Claim the existence of the 'anti cult cult'.
Make it seem that Rick Ross and those of us on the message board are the anti-cult cult. Complain that we are reactive and hate free speech on this message board when what has actually gone on is a near constant bombardment from trolls who have done more to harass discussions of BK than any other group.
Many of these groups have become so practiced that all they have had to do is say, 'Oh thats just the Rick Ross site' and it steers people away.
This is the cleverest mental judo of all.
To me the gold standard on how to test whether a group or relationship is nasty or nice is this:
Is your loyalty reciprocated throughout your involvement? Or are people kicked out when too old, too poor, and too stressed out to be of any further use?
Is there a double standard for compassion--endless compassion for the leader, and endless blame for the underling?
Is there any deceit about the history of the leader, the group, and what is to be done to you during its events?
Do they minimize power imbalance by claiming their are no victims?
Do they accuse you of projection, while never admitting that the leader remains just as capable of projecting his or her bullshit onto underlings? In real therapy, it is always recognized that the therapist has to remain aware, as powerholder and fiduciary, of his or her capacity to project unconsciouus agendas onto clients. That is why LICENSED THERAPISTS are given lengthy training in their own capacity for projection onto clients (countertransferance) and must take regular continuing education courses on the issues of boundaries, ethics, legal issues and counter transferance.
An LCSW buddy of mine did a 2 month long continuing ed class on therapist countertranseferance and she had done that course 3 to four years earlier. Because there was new understanding of the issue,t hat is why she repeated the course.
She said that in both cases, part of the course consisted of the therapists discussing real life situations--a way to remind themselves they were not perfect and ways to get help from colleagues so they would not repeat their mistakes.
An unlicensed guru is not required by law to take courses like this.
Quote
They add the cult word, and then use it like mental judo to lure in doubters and handle objections.
An analogy
Its like taking a sharp sharp foreign object, such as a knife (eg the term cult as Robert J Lifton defined it)....then using the thought shaping to wraping layers of masking tape around the super sharp knife blade so that it grows blunt.
Or the way the human body, when healthy, secretes layers of calcium to surround TB
bacteria, forming calcium 'tubercules' to keep the the bacteria walled off, unablet to further invade the lungs and spreading throughout the body.
Other methods of mental judo to deal with the scary word 'cult'
* Jokes. Make jokes about it, turn it into a silly joke and by extension make the person who brought the word up, seem foolish
*Distraction. Dump on other gurus who have been abusive, but use this to deflect attention away from your group.
* Minimize by saying all of society is cultic or claim (this is favorite) that the Armed Forces and Marines are cults. (This ignores that you KNOW, beforehand that you are enlisting in the service. And, though far, far from perfect and desperately in need of reform, the Armed Forces have something cults do not...a system of health care for injured veterans. Cults are use and dispose organizations and dont have their equivalent of the Veterans Administration or Congressional oversight. Reporters publish coverage of troubles at the VA without fear of being sued--another difference.
*Claim the existence of the 'anti cult cult'.
Make it seem that Rick Ross and those of us on the message board are the anti-cult cult. Complain that we are reactive and hate free speech on this message board when what has actually gone on is a near constant bombardment from trolls who have done more to harass discussions of BK than any other group.
Many of these groups have become so practiced that all they have had to do is say, 'Oh thats just the Rick Ross site' and it steers people away.
This is the cleverest mental judo of all.
To me the gold standard on how to test whether a group or relationship is nasty or nice is this:
Is your loyalty reciprocated throughout your involvement? Or are people kicked out when too old, too poor, and too stressed out to be of any further use?
Is there a double standard for compassion--endless compassion for the leader, and endless blame for the underling?
Is there any deceit about the history of the leader, the group, and what is to be done to you during its events?
Do they minimize power imbalance by claiming their are no victims?
Do they accuse you of projection, while never admitting that the leader remains just as capable of projecting his or her bullshit onto underlings? In real therapy, it is always recognized that the therapist has to remain aware, as powerholder and fiduciary, of his or her capacity to project unconsciouus agendas onto clients. That is why LICENSED THERAPISTS are given lengthy training in their own capacity for projection onto clients (countertransferance) and must take regular continuing education courses on the issues of boundaries, ethics, legal issues and counter transferance.
An LCSW buddy of mine did a 2 month long continuing ed class on therapist countertranseferance and she had done that course 3 to four years earlier. Because there was new understanding of the issue,t hat is why she repeated the course.
She said that in both cases, part of the course consisted of the therapists discussing real life situations--a way to remind themselves they were not perfect and ways to get help from colleagues so they would not repeat their mistakes.
An unlicensed guru is not required by law to take courses like this.
Visionary Rev. Dr. Michael Beckwith cures kidney disease? Alex Benzer
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 27, 2009 04:51PM
A new investigation and details emerging about the hypno-persuasion techniques of...
The Visionary Rev. Dr. Michael Beckwith cures kidney disease / cancer?
The Tao of Persuasion by Alex Benzer.
[forum.culteducation.com]
The Visionary Rev. Dr. Michael Beckwith cures kidney disease / cancer?
The Tao of Persuasion by Alex Benzer.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
nopermits
()
Date: December 29, 2009 12:56AM
I don't know anything about Byron Katie and I have my doubts about Eckart Tolle too, but I can positively tell you that Guy Finley is the real deal. You are right to be skeptial especially in today's world, but Life of Learing Foundation will never ever solicit money or any other form of donations from you. The materials that they offer are at a very very nominal cost and there are hours worth of free info on their website: www.guyfinley.org. Your personal search for the truth about your life is entirely yours, your freedom is all that can bring it about. If what you learn from Guy Finley's teachings speaks to you then that is wonderful, if not that is fine too, you will never be contacted or hear from Life of Learning
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 29, 2009 01:02AM
This thread is about Byron Katie and Echhart Tolle, not Guy Finley.
Please stay on topic.
Is someone wants to start another thread about Finley then others can comment there.
Please stay on topic.
Is someone wants to start another thread about Finley then others can comment there.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Guy Finley, www.guyfinley.org
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 03, 2010 07:14AM
Thanks for bring up the Guy Finley "Life of Learing Foundation" (sic)
(do we really need more Learers?)
There is a new thread to research what Guy Finley is up to.
Guy Finley - Self Help Guru [forum.culteducation.com]
So far, so good. You see, Guy has the answer to every problem, including SUICIDE. So is Guy Finley licensed to deal with suicide? No?
Guy is a smart salesman.
You sell people what they think they want to buy.
You give the fishes a FREE WORM, on the end of of hook.
And Guy Finley has many mailing lists. H
ave to wonder why a Guy Finley fan injected him into the Byron Katie fiasco. Maybe it was sarcastic?
So the research into Guy Finley and the Life of Learning Foundation, (sales machine with no taxes being paid) is found here.
Guru Guy Finley [forum.culteducation.com]
(do we really need more Learers?)
There is a new thread to research what Guy Finley is up to.
Guy Finley - Self Help Guru [forum.culteducation.com]
So far, so good. You see, Guy has the answer to every problem, including SUICIDE. So is Guy Finley licensed to deal with suicide? No?
Guy is a smart salesman.
You sell people what they think they want to buy.
You give the fishes a FREE WORM, on the end of of hook.
And Guy Finley has many mailing lists. H
ave to wonder why a Guy Finley fan injected him into the Byron Katie fiasco. Maybe it was sarcastic?
So the research into Guy Finley and the Life of Learning Foundation, (sales machine with no taxes being paid) is found here.
Guru Guy Finley [forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 07, 2010 09:04AM
A person on another thread discusses a different group, Millenium 3. 'freehearts'
observations make interesting reading.
[forum.culteducation.com]
observations make interesting reading.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Debra S. London, Anil Coumar
Posted by:
Djbaxter
()
Date: January 07, 2010 11:01PM
Quote
helpme2times
Also, here's a long post on Byron Katie by a Dr. David J. Baxter of Ottawa:
[[url=http://forum.psychlinks.ca/showthread.php?t=8993]The Work of Byron Katie - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Support Forum[/url]]
You may have missed this part at the end of that post:
Quote
Comments and Disclaimer
I do not intend this article to be an endorsement of Byron Katie's beliefs, her work, her books, or her workshops - I simply don't know enough about her and her work to do that. However, at first glance, it looks like something that could be of interest to some of our Psychlinks members.
As always, my philosophy is take what you find, integrate it with what you know, and see if it helps. I'd recommend that approach if you decide to explore The Work yourself.
The post information provided was in response to a question from a member of my forum about Byron Katie. I don't consider the mere posting of information to be an endorsement of anything and in this case I was careful to include the above-quoted disclaimer.
Dr. David Baxter
Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help and Mental health Support Forum
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.