Kids saving Kids or Kids fooling Kids
Posted by:
Joshuastone
()
Date: July 11, 2015 12:59AM
Suspicious Stories behind ride2freedom sponsored by controversial religious movement Falun Gong
There are many local news reporting and praising Ride2Freedom, an event sponsored by china banned religious movement Falun Gong. It seems a noble activity for 30 (now 25) brave young cyclists crossing the United States to save Falun Gong orphans in China as Ride2Freedom.us says:
June 1, young cyclists from around the world embarked on a 3,000 mile journey to raise awareness for and rescue five orphans in China targeted for persecution, simply for following the spiritual practice of Falun Gong.
These riders have no professional biking experience, yet they climbed mountains and crossed deserts in hopes of calling attention to the 16-year persecution of Falun Gong, a spiritual belief in China. Ride 2 Freedom’s ultimate mission is to save five Falun Gong orphans and bring them back to America.: kids saving kids.(http://ride2freedom.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Ride-2-Freedom-is-Coming-to-DC-flyerJuly1st.compressed.pdf)
But dig it further, you’ll find something fuzzy behind the stories of “China orphans”.
What’s an Orphan?
For Wikipedia’s definition:
An orphan is a child whose parents are dead or have abandoned them permanently. In common usage, only a child who has lost both parents is called an orphan. When referring to animals, only the mother's condition is usually relevant. If she has gone, the offspring is an orphan, regardless of the father's condition.
Adults can also be referred to as orphan, or adult orphans. However, survivors who reached adulthood before their parents died are normally not called orphans. It is a term generally reserved for children whose parents have died while they are too young to support themselves.
Various groups use different definitions to identify orphans. One legal definition used in the United States is a minor bereft through "death or disappearance of, abandonment or desertion by, or separation or loss from, both parents".
In the common use, an orphan does not have any surviving parent to care for him or her. However, the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UNAIDS), and other groups label any child that has lost one parent as an orphan. In this approach, a maternal orphan is a child whose mother has died, a paternal orphan is a child whose father has died, and a double orphan has lost both parents. This contrasts with the older use of half-orphan to describe children that had lost only one parent.
Are these children Falun Gong orphans or not?
There is no explicit Five China Orphans List offered by the organizer on ride2freedom.us. But the website gives 3 cases to support the organizer’s accusations in some way. Let’s assume these stories to be true, but the 4 children concerned in these cases are definitely true “Orphans”?
Cases offered by ride2freedom.us ( [ride2freedom.us]):
In case 1, Ms Wang Lixuan and her baby Meng Hao are both dead, so Meng Hao can not be considered as an orphan/paternal orphan. In addition, readers may cast doubt on the logic: The coroner of China authority would testify its ruthless murder.
In Case 2, Liu Qian, a 12-year-old girl, died of “health deteriorated”, but her parents are alive. Another example in case 2, Ms Yuwei Zhang fled to the United States leaving her one month old baby behind. Did Ms Zhang’s daughter killed or murdered by china authority? The story does not tell.
In Case 3, Ms Yuwei had an opportunity to leave China and reunited with her husband and child six months later, so undoubtedly her baby is not an orphan at all. Here again the logical conflict: the ruthless China authority could unexpectedly give Ms Yuwei an opportunity to leave China and eventually reunite with her family!
Falun Gong “Orphans” in US
Google “Falun Gong+orphan”, here we get an official website of Deerpark Town in New York, in which Falun Gong’s headquarter in US, the Dragon Springs dragon springs Buddhist Inc locates.
A minute of Deerpark town Planning Board (http://townofdeerpark.org/wp-content/uploads/pb_11_14_12.pdf) says:
Kaijin Liang said that the Board probably forgot that when his applicant had applied for special use permit, and the buildings, that the applicant said that their buildings and temples and shelters were for the refugees, Falun Gong persecuted practitioners from China and orphans, children who have lost their parents, so that they would have a place to stay. He said that the Board had said that that would be a burden to the local school district, and that those children could not go to school in the local school district.
Glen Plotsky asked Mr. Liang to show him anywhere on his site plan, where it says anything about schools or orphans, and he said that he will eat his words. He said that until that time, he is recommending to the Board that they deny an extension of the special use permit, because the site plan is inaccurate and disingenuine.
Derek Wilson said that this Board wants to make sure that what is up on the property now, is properly reviewed, and documented and the way to do that, is for the applicant to come back before this Board and get an amended site plan. He expressed his opinion as one member of this Board, that he does not want to extend the special use permit for even 30 or 90 days, for something that this Board did not approve. He said that when this applicant brought up the issue of bringing persecuted monks over here from China, twelve years ago when the project was first started, the Board was sympathetic and gave site plan approval, and now, he said that he does not believe that one monk has been brought onto the property from China yet. He expressed his opinion that he finds it hard to believe their credibility. He said that he has never heard the word “orphan" until tonight. He said that he was on the property, he did see school age children, and a lot of them were not Asian, so they wouldn’t have come over from China, and a lot of them were older than your typical school age student.
There are many local news reporting and praising Ride2Freedom, an event sponsored by china banned religious movement Falun Gong. It seems a noble activity for 30 (now 25) brave young cyclists crossing the United States to save Falun Gong orphans in China as Ride2Freedom.us says:
June 1, young cyclists from around the world embarked on a 3,000 mile journey to raise awareness for and rescue five orphans in China targeted for persecution, simply for following the spiritual practice of Falun Gong.
These riders have no professional biking experience, yet they climbed mountains and crossed deserts in hopes of calling attention to the 16-year persecution of Falun Gong, a spiritual belief in China. Ride 2 Freedom’s ultimate mission is to save five Falun Gong orphans and bring them back to America.: kids saving kids.(http://ride2freedom.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Ride-2-Freedom-is-Coming-to-DC-flyerJuly1st.compressed.pdf)
But dig it further, you’ll find something fuzzy behind the stories of “China orphans”.
What’s an Orphan?
For Wikipedia’s definition:
An orphan is a child whose parents are dead or have abandoned them permanently. In common usage, only a child who has lost both parents is called an orphan. When referring to animals, only the mother's condition is usually relevant. If she has gone, the offspring is an orphan, regardless of the father's condition.
Adults can also be referred to as orphan, or adult orphans. However, survivors who reached adulthood before their parents died are normally not called orphans. It is a term generally reserved for children whose parents have died while they are too young to support themselves.
Various groups use different definitions to identify orphans. One legal definition used in the United States is a minor bereft through "death or disappearance of, abandonment or desertion by, or separation or loss from, both parents".
In the common use, an orphan does not have any surviving parent to care for him or her. However, the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UNAIDS), and other groups label any child that has lost one parent as an orphan. In this approach, a maternal orphan is a child whose mother has died, a paternal orphan is a child whose father has died, and a double orphan has lost both parents. This contrasts with the older use of half-orphan to describe children that had lost only one parent.
Are these children Falun Gong orphans or not?
There is no explicit Five China Orphans List offered by the organizer on ride2freedom.us. But the website gives 3 cases to support the organizer’s accusations in some way. Let’s assume these stories to be true, but the 4 children concerned in these cases are definitely true “Orphans”?
Cases offered by ride2freedom.us ( [ride2freedom.us]):
In case 1, Ms Wang Lixuan and her baby Meng Hao are both dead, so Meng Hao can not be considered as an orphan/paternal orphan. In addition, readers may cast doubt on the logic: The coroner of China authority would testify its ruthless murder.
In Case 2, Liu Qian, a 12-year-old girl, died of “health deteriorated”, but her parents are alive. Another example in case 2, Ms Yuwei Zhang fled to the United States leaving her one month old baby behind. Did Ms Zhang’s daughter killed or murdered by china authority? The story does not tell.
In Case 3, Ms Yuwei had an opportunity to leave China and reunited with her husband and child six months later, so undoubtedly her baby is not an orphan at all. Here again the logical conflict: the ruthless China authority could unexpectedly give Ms Yuwei an opportunity to leave China and eventually reunite with her family!
Falun Gong “Orphans” in US
Google “Falun Gong+orphan”, here we get an official website of Deerpark Town in New York, in which Falun Gong’s headquarter in US, the Dragon Springs dragon springs Buddhist Inc locates.
A minute of Deerpark town Planning Board (http://townofdeerpark.org/wp-content/uploads/pb_11_14_12.pdf) says:
Kaijin Liang said that the Board probably forgot that when his applicant had applied for special use permit, and the buildings, that the applicant said that their buildings and temples and shelters were for the refugees, Falun Gong persecuted practitioners from China and orphans, children who have lost their parents, so that they would have a place to stay. He said that the Board had said that that would be a burden to the local school district, and that those children could not go to school in the local school district.
Glen Plotsky asked Mr. Liang to show him anywhere on his site plan, where it says anything about schools or orphans, and he said that he will eat his words. He said that until that time, he is recommending to the Board that they deny an extension of the special use permit, because the site plan is inaccurate and disingenuine.
Derek Wilson said that this Board wants to make sure that what is up on the property now, is properly reviewed, and documented and the way to do that, is for the applicant to come back before this Board and get an amended site plan. He expressed his opinion as one member of this Board, that he does not want to extend the special use permit for even 30 or 90 days, for something that this Board did not approve. He said that when this applicant brought up the issue of bringing persecuted monks over here from China, twelve years ago when the project was first started, the Board was sympathetic and gave site plan approval, and now, he said that he does not believe that one monk has been brought onto the property from China yet. He expressed his opinion that he finds it hard to believe their credibility. He said that he has never heard the word “orphan" until tonight. He said that he was on the property, he did see school age children, and a lot of them were not Asian, so they wouldn’t have come over from China, and a lot of them were older than your typical school age student.
Re: Kids saving Kids or Kids fooling Kids
Posted by:
SeePony
()
Date: July 12, 2015 12:05AM
Ok, so if we have for example 100 refugees in a camp, the "right" way to allocate the sponsorship money would be to feed the 30 to 50 of them which happen to fit the Wikipedia definition of "orphan" on that particular day.
(I'm saying 30 to 50, because Wikipedia is regularly edited so the actual number may vary from one day to another).
Besides, the "defined" orphans would be really hurt if they would see "undefined" orphans and friends dieing near them of hunger or whatever.
Personally, I don't favor this hairsplitting, as long as money goes to needy people and not to a greedy scamming bastard to cover luxury costs. Which I cannot exclude, but what this criticism says: you need to find better lies next time.
That being said, I do support transparency, even though I don't know how this can practically be achieved.
-------
Also, from little contact with asian people, sometimes the truth is less black-versus-white to them compared to westerners.
So one may see a logical contradiction or even untruth where none was intended.
There seem to be important differences in thinking patterns which cannot be translated into language via "definitions".
----
The second story is more obviously dubious, but I'm not sure they are related. Are the organizers the same or different falun-gong -ist people ?
(I'm saying 30 to 50, because Wikipedia is regularly edited so the actual number may vary from one day to another).
Besides, the "defined" orphans would be really hurt if they would see "undefined" orphans and friends dieing near them of hunger or whatever.
Personally, I don't favor this hairsplitting, as long as money goes to needy people and not to a greedy scamming bastard to cover luxury costs. Which I cannot exclude, but what this criticism says: you need to find better lies next time.
That being said, I do support transparency, even though I don't know how this can practically be achieved.
-------
Also, from little contact with asian people, sometimes the truth is less black-versus-white to them compared to westerners.
So one may see a logical contradiction or even untruth where none was intended.
There seem to be important differences in thinking patterns which cannot be translated into language via "definitions".
----
The second story is more obviously dubious, but I'm not sure they are related. Are the organizers the same or different falun-gong -ist people ?
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