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Any device that is designed to solely inflict pain and injury is a torture device

Self-inflicted torture, indeed. That is called self-harm in psychiatry and is a symptom of mental illness. Sorry, but is true.

I was in the Opus Dei. They tried to recruit me. I'd recently started practising catholicism (was a free-thinker before) and they rushed to get me into it. That was in Argentina.

There are some truths in this tread, and some misleading facts.
First of all, I believe that even if the OD is officially part of the Cath. Church, it fits in the description of a cult.

That said, the self-harm is not encouraged, but not disencouraged neither. A lot is said about Escriva de Balaguer doing it "to purify his soul through pain". So, since he is worshipped next to Jesus -I saw it- many devotees want to emulate their "Master" by doing the same.

The brainwashing is done by guilt.
"God gave you your life, -would say to me a priest, a numerary or a supernumerary- He gave you a good lifestyle, He gave you intelligence. Would you hurt Him so badly refusing to do His will?"
Being His will to join the OD.

"God is sad because of what you do/think/doubt."
"If you love God, wouldn't you try to make Him happy?"

As a young person who just found her faith, that made me feel terrible.
Was I failing God?

But because God gave me some intelligence, I saw that faith doesn't go together with guilt. You don't love your God because you fear him or are afraid to "hurt" Him. You love Him, period.

About exploiting the "lower class members", yes. The "maid group" -so they called them- had their own house, weren't encouraged to join the "professionals" or "Universitaries" and they had to serve them, cooking and cleaning.

And what makes me sick is that they are still part of the Catholic Church, mostly due to economical power, when their practices are often against the mercy and tolerance that Jesus Christ preached.

And also makes me nauseous the fact that they recruit CHILDREN as numeraries in their schools, making them assume a compromise that a young mind -as young as 15, as far as I knew cases- is not able to psycologically hold healthily.

PS: I also can quote testimony of young people who was adviced to get away of their families because their lack of faith in the OD was "obstructing their path to God's true will."

Doesn't that fit into secretism of a cult?

Facts, I'm talking about facts. Not suppositions or "I read it in a book/newspaper, etc."

I'm not necessarily going to say whether or not I think that this group is a cult, but I want to comment on the "torture" device. I understand from a psychological viewpoint, any type of pain inflicted to one self seems self mutiliating and unhealthy. However, I don't think that this is the case in all religious circumstances.
For instance, people fast all the time in Christianity. It is a very well known activity. It can also be very painful though. This is especially prevalent in fasts lasting more than one day (which can even lead some to a semi-hallucinatory state). However, it's a way to become more spiritual, because you are basically desensitizing your flesh. Thus, your spirit can express itself more.
Couldn't this be the case for instruments as well? The man said that the pain is mild, so it does not seem torturous really. I can see where he is coming from.

[b:6a21c53ac5]Gimlikun[/b:6a21c53ac5] says: (about the pain of fasting)

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especially prevalent in fasts lasting more than one day (which can even lead some to a semi-hallucinatory state). However, it's a way to become more spiritual, because you are basically desensitizing your flesh. Thus, your spirit can express itself more.

This state of dissociation of body and spirit can be well compared to the one caused by ingestion of psychotropic substances, provoking changes in perception, mood, consciousness and behaviour.
It is well known that ingestion of drugs may lead to "spiritual experiences", experienced by -for instance- chamanes and other "spiritual leaders".
The oppinion about if it's good or not varies according to the group, but from a scientific point of view, it's just a hallucination.
I believe today most mainstream religions (*) agree in finding faith and enlightment by taking care of the whole being, -body, soul, mind and spirit- instead of harming any of the components.

(*) And this is my personal point of view, too.

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Gimlikun
For instance, people fast all the time in Christianity. It is a very well known activity. It can also be very painful though. This is especially prevalent in fasts lasting more than one day (which can even lead some to a semi-hallucinatory state).

There is a distinct difference between fasting and the intentional infliction of pain. In fasting, whether it is in Islam, Christianity or Buddhism, is deisgned not to inflict pain, but to remind the person of the fruits they have been given in life and encourage solidarity with the poor. Fasting is something that is temporary, for example, in Islam during Ramadan it only occurs between sunup and sundown. Thus, there is no permanent damage, nor is there any pain involved. The intentional infliction of pain, such as the Opus Dei cult practicies, is psychologically unhealthy and teaches one to disrespect one's physical body.

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carl
Just that the movie came out, you konw, about them, so everyone's giving it a hard time. Its not like they open for membership eitehr.

The Opus Dei cult had image problems long before The Da Vinci Code came out. Please see: [www.odan.org] .

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Fairytale
First of all, I believe that even if the OD is officially part of the Cath. Church, it fits in the description of a cult.

This is correct. There are a number of cults in the Catholic Church, Opus Dei being the most powerful.

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Fairytale
So, since he is worshipped next to Jesus -I saw it- many devotees want to emulate their "Master" by doing the same.

This is correct. Sometimes Escriva is revered even higher than Jesus Christ, who ostensibly is the founder of Catholicism. Escrvia is often called "The Father", which is also the term used for God in Catholicism.

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Fairytale
The brainwashing is done by guilt. Would you hurt Him so badly refusing to do His will?" Being His will to join the OD.

This is correct. The Opus Dei cult attempts to unite their will with the will of God. Given that God gives people free will, this is a contradiction.

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Fairytale
And also makes me nauseous the fact that they recruit CHILDREN as numeraries in their schools, making them assume a compromise that a young mind -as young as 15, as far as I knew cases- is not able to psycologically hold healthily.

Interesting insight. It is my understanding that the Opus Dei cult will start the recruiting process as early as 5 years old. For example, in New York City, they start recruiting through something called The Narnia Clubs: [www.narniaclubs.com]

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Fairytale
PS: I also can quote testimony of young people who was adviced to get away of their families because their lack of faith in the OD was "obstructing their path to God's true will."

Opus Dei, like many other cults, tries to cut cult members off from non-cult members, physically, psychologically and emotionally. That way they come to depend heavily on the cult from the psychological perspective, giving them much more control over them and making it very difficult (but not impossible) to leave.

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Fairytale
This state of dissociation of body and spirit can be well compared to the one caused by ingestion of psychotropic substances, provoking changes in perception, mood, consciousness and behaviour.

It is my understanding that the use of the cilice in the Opus Dei cult puts the body under great stress, causing it to release adrenaline and serotonin, which can induce a psychological high that one may attribute to spiritual origins, but is in fact coming from self-inflicted torture.

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mjr40
Thus, there is no permanent damage, nor is there any pain involved. The intentional infliction of pain, such as the Opus Dei cult practicies, is psychologically unhealthy and teaches one to disrespect one's physical body.

I know that in Christianity, fasting can often times be somewhat of a "punishment" for not obeying. If a person is becoming overrun with sin, the fast is a way to basically scold the flesh and allow the Spirit to speak more. This is from a religious standpoint, and not a scientific one.

Also, I agree that anything that has permanent damage should not be used to make this kind of ends. For example, using a cat-of-nine-tails should not be used to whip yourself like it was by some extremists in the past. I understood the "torture" by this group to be not permanent though. That's why I thought maybe there was so legitimacy. If it is indeed overly hurting, the practice shouldn't be done.