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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Apollo,

I still have to question the "disbanding" assertion....that is based only on the contents of an email to Denise isn't it?...I still have suspicions that he has merely taken who he could "underground" for further reprogramming..... but definitely it would appear that a few of the following have gone their own way (thus prompting McKay to act as he has in order to avoid losing the lot of them!).....

My "theory" is that the more "painful" the exit, the more quickly one can see through and consequently abandon the cult paradigms that have been internalized..... if members leave more "amicably", they are saved the psychological trauma of an exit in "disgrace".....but it will take far longer for them to lose "cult think".... I doubt that many of them will "return to their families" initially...it would be tantamount to abandoning the "faith"....

There will as you say be a "long road" ahead....

I completely understand that Malcolm. Certainly for the time being the only evidence we have is Denise's blog but for the sake of the Johnson's and all the other families who have been torn apart i hope and pray that it's true.

I don't expect them to return to their families immediately but the 'disbanding' of the group would certainly be a step in the right direction. These people will be experiencing alot of emotional turmoil and alot of soul searching will have to be done.

The more I think about the fact that there is only one person's word for this disbanding and we all know what a liar she is and how deluded she is and how she would LOVE to pretend she is important to McKay and helping him somehow.....it could well just be some stunt of McKay's. If so, what a weirdo as though he thinks somehow this "hurts" people.....it only makes him look desperate and rather foolish...again. Another Anita Foster mess?

If they were disbanding how come there was the big run to get new recruits?

How come they just finished producing more videos and music to pimp?

What about Joe giving up his hear.....I mean kidney?

It seems to me rather sudden unless McKay just had enough when he found out about the legal action or when more people defected....perhaps there was some sort of group "upset" and he was actually "getting" how sidelined he was and he was tired of just playing cyber babysitter to a handful of distant dissident members and then the squabblers and kooks that dropped in daily to discuss their theories on secret messages being sent to them thru their broken VCR machines and wondering if their neigbours pet snake was really the Antichrist in disguise and hissing secrets to them about end times. You have to admit some of the discussions over there would make a grown cult leader weep when he had to try to be seen to be interested enough to keep the victi.....potential around. You could see Dave was at a loss on how to reply to the fears of Tupperware overtaking the world. One wonders if she thinks we are all going to be confined in the Lime Jelly Holders with Double Bubble Snap Tops...for real? No some are just destined to go back to whence they spawned....mental hospitals or jail. The courts can work that out.

Until I see something from someone credible, I believe this is not for real now. At most I think it may be some regrouping of the loyal as Mal says. Interesting to read all the theories......I think we all agree it's very peculiar and might signal some SERIOUS unrest within the group....for all we know everyone just abandoned ship en mass and McKay had to save face....???? Too bad you can't trust what he says or what his peons say. Oh well time will tell......

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Agur
I'm not a "credible professional" zeusie....I'm an incredible cookie maker.....;) Don't be a nitpicker.

Anyway sorry no offense made with my term. I thought it was the term used. Think I might have heard the jc's use it anyway sorry I meant no offense.

Oh the "You was" was an error, I was cutting and pasting some posts I wanted to save from the jc site in case they call get taken away.....I mistakenly posted that instead of here instead of into my word file...you don't miss a think zeuszor.....You should be a private eye. ;)

Anyway I missed your part of your post zeus where you questioned why the jc's would leave it to their "twisted sister" to post about their disbanding and that doesn't make sense does it.....perhaps this is some regrouping that she has twisted into her own idea as she does everything else...takes some truth and twists it into a lie that doesn't even resemble fact.

Who knows? Perhaps they were that desperate to shake her off that they fed her the BS but that seems pretty extreme when as someone else said, they could simply ban her again and block her copious emails. I read how she was peppering Dave with so many emails filled with "meaningful muck"....even Dave was fed up it seems. But to think they are all hiding underground to avoid her seems a little much....how would she explain this latest major faux pas to her master if she just made it up????? I mean since this lie would have effected him he wouldn't have been so grateful and find it so thrilling as when it was only about others.

I tend to think they have disbanded or are somehow regrouping and dropping off people that Dave considers dead weight. If so, I hope those people are OK and find their ways "home".

Just saying...

I must echo Tony's observation(xjcs.jcs) that it is a "waste" to see what David has made of his life.... there were certainly the "good times".....and even in the recent cruise, where he organized the group games and the general merriment, you could see what he was capable of when he didn't have to live out the role of "cult leader" ....SO MUCH effort has been made to "re-engage" with him ... it remains a dreadful pity, that he has never responded.... he will be his own worst suffering victim, at the end of it all.....

Yes I agree Mal. I believe Dave McKay IS suffering. He makes it very hard to be compassionate towards him because he consistently spits in anyone's face who shows caring. He ridicules them as fakes and then seems to go out of his way to assault them in ways that make it impossible to "love" him or at least it makes a person reticant to express it and in the heat of the moment one feels you want to say "Sod Off Dave!".

I was pretty fed up with him a couple weeks ago and declared I would not "defend" him but I do tend to get over things somewhat= not to say I would ever trust Dave unless he repented his ways and showed change but I would still defend him against some physical attack or something awful as I don't want anything bad to happen to Dave....I guess what I meant more is that I would not ever assume his mean acts are mistakes or as a result of being a hurting person. I've seen and experienced treatment that can ONLY be deliberate and calculatingly cruel and brutal. That's why he has so many enemies like someone else I could mention...except she doesn't even have the ability to self edit at all and is in another realm to Dave really. But back to what is more important, Dave is his own worst enemy as he shows over and over by the way he pecks (pecked) at people who visit the "old" jc forum. Enemy after enemy was generated and there was NO NEED for it. Bryan was a prime example of someone who seemed to want to ask some pretty polite basic questions and Welcome Foes! Sicc 'em Prickly Rose! and there is a verbal blood bath over NOTHING!

biggpigweed-Would you please consider contacting me off the forum, if you are willing to share if you were contacted by C. Clark, the lawyer in the Washington....? Thanks.

We can all hope the disbanding tale is true and that there are some former jc's sleeping better tonight away from oppression and depression....I know healing will take time but just getting away from Dave's paranoid negativity is a good thing and I hope Cherry also gets a break.

as for the jesus christians i could see mackay pulling this off as a stunt for attention before joe drops his organ. ...bigpigweed

An interesting question, bigpigweed, would be how much this "conjuring trick" (now you see us...now you don't!) was premeditated in advance...

I tend to think it was not, despite the references to learning to live without money (So..ummm Joe will be refusing any "cost reimbursements" then for "forgone salary"....?)...McKay probably just suffered an "anxiety attack" (I saw a few of these in my time...when he would enter a bout of pensive misgivings about himself), most particularly when he saw that his behaviour was being "corrected" by his underlyings.(I mean the very impudence of them, to address an Apostle of God so!!!)..when he then panicked and implemented "tribulation strategy" as his Plan B.

The "underground" strategy certainly WILL be a risky lifestyle for Joe, should he be recovering from an operation and living off dumpster refuse, at the same time! It would be far more preferable for him to "drop" McKay than to "drop" his organ....however he seems a really damaged individual now, to judge from his arrogant postings to his parents, and will likely only escape the JC's a "hard way" (...circumstances such as serious illness force him out)

Oh....and of course I must remark what a blessed "sound" it is, serendipity itself, NOT to be hearing a word from McKay......let's enjoy it!!

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Agur
I was pretty fed up with him a couple weeks ago and declared I would not "defend" him but I do tend to get over things somewhat= not to say I would ever trust Dave unless he repented his ways and showed change but I would still defend him against some physical attack or something awful as I don't want anything bad to happen to Dave....I guess what I meant more is that I would not ever assume his mean acts are mistakes or as a result of being a hurting person. I've seen and experienced treatment that can ONLY be deliberate and calculatingly cruel and brutal. That's why he has so many enemies like someone else I could mention...except she doesn't even have the ability to self edit at all and is in another realm to Dave really. But back to what is more important, Dave is his own worst enemy as he shows over and over by the way he pecks (pecked) at people who visit the "old" jc forum. Enemy after enemy was generated and there was NO NEED for it. Bryan was a prime example of someone who seemed to want to ask some pretty polite basic questions and Welcome Foes! Sicc 'em Prickly Rose! and there is a verbal blood bath over NOTHING!

There's no doubt Dave is his own worst enemy. His defensiveness and paranoia must have scared off hundreds of 'potentials' over the years. If you're not suspicious of the group on arrival then you certainly will be after spending ten minutes chatting to Dave!

I felt like i was under investigation from the very first moment i spoke to Dave. The whole pound sign issue was a genuine mistake on my part but Dave dragged that out for days. On a few occasions i even apologised, just to move things along more than anything but Dave was having none of it, he wanted blood. I'm sure Casey and one or two others briefly commented on the pound sign but i got the impression they were just doing 'enough' to keep Dave happy. They didn't seem remotely bothered by such a trivial issue. It certainly didn't gain the reaction Dave was hoping for.

Another thing i've noticed about Dave and his cult is this automatic reaction they all seem to have when asked the sort of questions they don't want to answer. They usually babble on for ages, basically just skirting around the issue and boring you to death. Eventually it gets to the stage where you realise you're not going to get a straight answer so you try and move things along and that's when they usually get on their high horse and say 'you're asking us all these questions but you're not giving us time to answer'. They used the same tactic on Jeremy Kyle and i've seen them repeat that numerous times on their forum. Dave used that line with me after only a few minutes into our initial chat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2010 12:24AM by Apollo.

I don't know how anyone can have the slightest bit of sympathy for Dave. He himself is constantly going on about how people should be held accountable for their own actions. There's so many negative aspects of the Jesus Christians but certainly the main one for me is how they target naive teenagers and completely destroy any relationaship they have with their parents. That alone is enough for me to have absolutely no sympathy for this man. He has shattered far too many lives. Sheila Johnson is just one mother in a very long line whose lives have been turned upside down by Dave and his cult. This man goes out his way to build divisions between children and their parents, he almost thrives on it.