Bandler and Grinder also used former students as 'helpers' in their seminars and I suspect that's where Robbin's learned it. Also you can find the same behavior in NLP seminars today like those by NLPCO that use "guardian angels" - who are nothing but former seminar participants who drank the kool aid and who work for free and get this, they still have to pay $$$ for helping out at the seminar.

Oh and this is by the most 'reputable' NLP training group around - the one loaded with licensed psychologists who ought to know better than mind f**king people who come in off the street with serious existing mental issues.

Walter, welcome back. Your mailbox has been full.

Someone should really update Anthony Robbins' Wiki entry; it doesn't mention hypnosis, and barely nods to NLP:[en.wikipedia.org]

On NLP's Wiki page, Anthony Robbins is not even listed as a, "Notable Practitioner": [en.wikipedia.org]

Robbins had a falling out with the NLP gurus decades ago. Heck Bandler and Grinder slammed him hard in their book "Frogs into Princes", in it they didn't name him, but got after him for using monsters like Hitler and Mussolini as along with various TV evangelists as role models. Not only did he pick up their charisma but also their collective inhumanity as well.

As to why Robbins doesn't mention hypnosis or NLP more, I suspect it's because he doesn't want people looking too closely at his real origins or how he got so good at brainwashing people. And I think the NLP community likes it that way. They can't really stand anymore real public scrutiny than Robbins can. If people look too deeply they'll find that the originators were frauds with severe personality and health issues themselves who did too much change personal history on themselves.

Early supporters of NLP, such as Gregory Bateson and Milton Erickson ran them off and wanted nothing to do with them when they recognized them to be power mad lunatics who spread their poison far and wide.

Yep Robbins tool all the NLP tech, and just changed its name. But Robbins still does all the old NLP covert persuasion and hypnosis tricks. That is what he does.

Richard Bandler called Anthony Robbins a "genius" in the dedication to his book:
Time For A Change by Richard Bandler. [www.amazon.com]

Why did Bandler say that? The rumor is because they made some kind of a financial deal where the NLP guys like Bandler got paid off with large regular royalty checks $$ from Robbins and his publisher, to make the intellectual property theft lawsuits go away.
Its all about $$ for these guys, beginning, middle and end. Fast money.

Hi Walter,

Unless you're referring to a re-issue of, "Frogs into Princes" (originally printed in 1979), my understanding is it was written before Anthony Robbins was on the radar.

Robbins took some of the early NLP seminars, then just went and started running NLP patterns, and making up false Stories of his successes. Just total fabrications.
Initially of course the NLP guys were furious with Robbins, not for reasons of Ethics, but for reasons of Profits. So there was going to be a big legal fight.
That is why after Robbins first book he dropped NLP.

Later, as the story from the horses mouth itself goes, Bandler made a deal to get large checks from Robbins, and then he liked him again.
If you give Bandler money, he thinks you are a genius.
If you question Bandler's false claims, then you are bad.
Bandler is no better than the rest of them, only less successful due to his personality.


These guys are basically all glorified bullshit artists at root.
Never believe ANYTHING any NLPer tells you, without proof. As they conscious LIE, but call it a metaphor or pattern they are running.
Anyone with experience would never believe one word out of the mouth of a pro NLPer.
Always check and verify all claims and facts. If there is no proof, they are lying...uh....using a metaphor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2011 05:18AM by The Anticult.

My bad, it was "Transformations".

Robbin's study of Hitler, Mussolini and various TV evangelicals was well known when I attended my first NLP seminar in '95. All the old time trainers and hangers on knew about Robbins and his power trip. I even have a audio tape from Grinder chiding Robbins(but not using his name, but for insiders, they knew who he was talking about).

I've seen enough of Robbins schtick to see agree with it.

And Robbin's presentation model has now copied by political and religious big shots as well. Make no mistake the political and religious PR people see how Robbins ropes people in and turns them into puppets. This stuff is gold to political hacks and televangelists.

Everytime I see Joel Olsteen on TV, I see another slicker more gentler version of Robbins. It's even more interesting to watch people who are listening to Olsteen just zone out when they hear/see him. It's clear he has had formal training.

At least though he's no Neale Donald Walsch or Byron Katie.

Walter, I've never studied NLP, read the first couple of books when they first came out but found them a bit pointless. (The people who interested me were the people they modelled so I followed up on them.)

Do you think that this stuff is really that effective and long-lasting on the general audience? Does it really have the same effect as the rhetoric of a Hitler or Mussolini--or are there enough other distractions now to diffuse its power somewhat?
With all the other media channels and influences available now as distraction--do you think we should be a bit more worried about the deleterious effects of this garbage?

I am asking a very general question, of course, I don't deny the devastation that application of this tech can have on an individual who buys into it completely--or even just a bit. (I am thinking of Colleen here)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2011 05:55PM by Stoic.

That stuff can be very powerful.
Not as powerful as they say in their marketing, but still very effective.
The basic NLP books do not go into the "real" techniques, are really just dumbed down 'self-help' ideas that are being marketed.
The real NLP tech is about group persuasion and using conversational hypnosis, and all of the other techniques discussed.

What some of them can do is model and codify, and put information into actual manuals, that can be used and abused by others.

For example, if a guy like Robert Dilts decides to model the techniques of a cult leader, and then put those techniques together, they can be abused to great effect. That information can also be sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars to those who want to buy it, by hiring them as a consultant.

The result of these NLP abuses leads directly to a James Arthur Ray, who studied all of those techniques, and even though he was not intelligent, was able to use them on regular people, and 4 people ended up dead. James Ray was using techniques, based from the NLP material, to get people to risk and forfeit their lives.

These techniques are devastatingly powerful, when used and applied by someone who knows what they are doing, and is utterly ruthless. Like a Tony Robbins.
Now these guys are hiding behind being a "celebrity" which makes it much much worse.

Note: this is only for people who are very experienced in these techniques already...

Anyone who doubts the power of these techniques, just has to get a free comp ticket (do not pay!) to one of the events, from a contact they have with a promoter, or company. And just go and sit there for a couple of days, and watch and take notes of what guys like Robbins are doing to people.
When you see people who's eyes are lit up like saucers, who are maxing out their credit at the back of the room buying everything, who are screaming and going into mania, then the true power of these techniques is in plain view.

And yes, these persuasion "experts" are being hired as consultants in politics and media as well.