I heard a lot of similar things when I left the school, pointing all the blame at me essentially. Again, "there's nothing wrong with the school, it's YOU that's the problem." Ironically this whole attitude of trusting someone else, even if it's supposed to be the fellowship, which they go on and on about in clairvision, essentially equates to a guru relationship wher
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More thought terminating cliches frequently heard in Clairvision: You're reacting/having a reaction/in a reaction You're projecting You're being a victim grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Remembered another one: > > "It's all just part of The Work" > > USE OF THOUGHT TERMINATING CLICHES IN > CLA
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If anything, Samuel Sagan was definitely a genius. He did all the right things to train his "lieutenants" how to take over once he passed, and to look back and reflect on this, the way Samuel did it was pure genius too. Here's a great quote about cult leaders getting their people organized and ready to spread the word, and ultimately keep the cult going. From Influence: The Psyc
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From: "What the manipulators say... It's interesting that many cult leaders will often claim that people cannot be made to do things against their will, even using mind control hypnosis. There are two important issues here. First of all, the members of the group are programmed to accept whatever the leader says. Therefore they will tend to accept this idea. Secondly, implicit in
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I suspect that a Clairvision response to this would be that the body of immortality is supposed to be about a transpersonal perspective, not about the "little ego". I always found this confusing, but Clairvision refers to the Self or the Higher Self as the Ego (capital E). I think this was a Steiner thing but I don't remember for sure. So the body of immortality is essentially ope
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Understood. mesche Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This bit I meant: "I checked with mesche and it's > not the same person they knew who killed > themselves... so there are at least 2 Clairvision > students we know of so far who ended up committing > suicide, apparently even more who attempted but > did not succeed. " &g
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Ok, well, this was just my understanding of why one might want a body of immortality that could survive death, but I feel like it had to do with what they teach about reincarnation. According to Clairvision certain parts of your subtle bodies fall away or shatter upon death. Once you have refined the subtle bodies to a certain point, those subtle bodies don't shatter or fall away with death.
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To clarify, the below quote from me was not meant to quote mesche... sorry if it came across that way mesche Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But Grok. Don't quote me unless you have asked for > permission. > > > > grok Wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Remembered another one: >
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Remembered another one: "It's all just part of The Work" This was said by a lead admin person to a friend of mine after she reported to the school that her IST practitioner had sexually seduced her spouse using confidential information from IST sessions about her own (client) weaknesses and vulnerabilities. The IST practitioner also used other information to gain a manipulat
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I recently learned about someone I knew in the school who committed suicide. This was absolutely shocking to me because this person was extremely dedicated to the school and not someone I ever witnessed or heard having mental issues. But maybe his dedication was part of the problem? I don't know. I checked with mesche and it's not the same person they knew who killed themselves... s
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SPIRITUAL ABUSE AND THE SPIRITUAL PRACTICES OF CLAIRVISION I very much feel like what happened to me at Clairvision is spiritual abuse. Matthew Remski says: "Spiritual abuse is not special or more damaging than any other type of abuse. but it does carry with it a particular wound. While physical abuse can disrupt bodily integrity and sexual abuse can humiliate one’s sense of intimacy,
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USE OF THOUGHT TERMINATING CLICHES IN CLAIRVISION Other red flags you can look for in cult-like groups or with "therapists" (aka IST practitioners) are thought terminating cliches. A though terminating cliche (also called thought-stopper or bumper sticker logic) is a commonly used phrase, sometimes used to pass folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance
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ON CLAIRVISION LANGUAGE Having one's own special language is one of the ways cults lure people deeper into their clutches. Using the Clairvision terms/language (again, much, but not all, of their language is outlined in their book A Language to Map Consciousness that is available for free download from their website) can make you feel special and like you belong. Clairvision encourages
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mesche, it sounds like you have found some healing through support groups.. I'm glad to hear that that has been helpful for you. So far I personally have not had good experiences with support groups in trying to deal with leaving Clairvision. For me, I think it has a lot to do with groups feeling a lot like the group confessionals we were made to do in CV - they feel too similar, I don�
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I think I understand what you mean, metanoia. I have experienced both hypnosis and meditation and I agree that they aren't really the same - at least they aren't exactly the same. My experience was that there was more of a "similar but different" type of feeling about the headspace between the two. I agree that the two are trying to induce a particular state of mind or conscio
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Intensity is a theme in the Clairvision school. The courses are called "Intensives", and as previously mentioned, when you go to these courses you should expect to be in course related activities from about 8am-10pm everyday. Seriously intense! And this generally is what people who go are looking for. People in Clairvision seem to love intensity, it fact sometimes it felt to me like
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Clairvision IS NOT Trauma Informed or Trauma Sensitive If anyone who has any association with the Clairvision school ever refers to themselves as "trauma informed" or "trauma sensitive" you need ask them exactly what they mean by that and exactly what kind of training and formal certifications they have received, because I never ever experienced any kind of trauma sensitivi
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More on "Divine Madness & Endless Love Vol 2": The first book (there are two "books" or longer stories in this book) reads more like a high school boy's wet dream than a spiritual book. Our main character Malcolm (no doubt Samuel was imagining himself as Malcolm when he wrote this) seems to be the white knight, and rescues a bored housewife from her boring life and
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CLAIRVISION AND "NBY" Not Born Yesterday - What it Really Mean in the Clairvision School One of the phrases that the Clairvision school uses a lot is "not born yesterday" or NBY. They say they want all their students to become NBY. Yet at the same time, they don't want you to be NBY regarding things that go on in the school - you have to learn that as you go along
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WHAT CLAIRVISION SAYS ABOUT INTEGRITY Something everyone needs to know about about Clairvision is their definition of the word "integrity." It has absolutely nothing to do with a dictionary definition of personal or professional integrity that one might initially think of. Integrity in Clairvision world only means "the ability to hold spiritual fire". They talk about it
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CLAIRVISION ROMANTICIZES SAVING SOMEONE'S SOUL Another common theme I started to see in the school towards the end of my time there was romanticizing making people fall in love with you in order to "save them" or "bring them back to the light". This started after the Divine Madness books were released. Students would talk about how cool it would be to come into an inca
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LIES THAT CLAIRVISION TOLD ME - ASKING QUESTIONS According to leaders in Clairvision, asking questions is "an important part of The Archive tradition" and they tell you to speak up and make it seem like what you have to share will somehow "contribute to the space." I believed this at first, but again, the longer I was in the group it seemed like every time I would ask a
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"Cult leaders understand the power of charisma, the attractiveness of transcendental ideology, and what it takes to make vulnerable people feel like every question is answerable with jargon, intrusive eye contact, and deeply deceptive shit."
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LIES THAT CLAIRVISION TOLD ME Clairvision claims they are not "New Age" but in reality this is just part of their marketing to make it seem more appealing or "real" or "advanced" to attract the "real seekers". Clairvision practices and teachings include: -meditation -past life regression -astrology/planetary forces -teachings from a mix of multip
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Books, articles, podcast, and shows that were recommended to me to help me understand the processes cults like Clairvision take you through to hook you, as well as stuff that just plain felt like Clairvision style of "spirituality": Books: Take Back Your Life - by Janja Lalich also lots more info on her website: janjalalich.com The BITE Model Of Authoritarian Control: Undue Inf
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How the Clairvision Indoctrination Process Works Most people first learn about the Clairvision school through a friend or family member or through Karen Kingston. Many will be referred to either an IST practitioner or Awakening the Third Eye (ATE) workshop to help them with whatever issue they feel blocked around in their lives. Many IST practitioners put themselves out in the world as som
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I feel really fortunate to have finally found a therapist since I realized that I had been involved with a cult (the cult of Clairvision). It's worth noting that the reason I started therapy was because I wanted to deal with the trauma that I could never seem to get to the bottom of with the Clairvision IST method, despite years of IST sessions. After going through proper therapy (aka with a
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Thanks for that additional explanation, mesche, that helps me understand a bit more what you're saying metanoia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I got the impression that there was a lot of > spiritual ego going on as a result of these > experiences--feeling like CV was superior to most > other approaches, a sense of having special powers
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mesche, Do you mean the metaphysical aspects of what the Clairvision work claims to bring can be explained with science? I don't think I totally understand what you mean here, could you expand a bit? mesche Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But the someting is actually not what it > seems to be. Most of what I experienced, the good > and the
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Yes, I find it's been hard for me to find the right support as well - I had a therapist tell me that now I can be more discerning after going through this experience and other condescending remarks that make me feel like I should have seen this coming. The thing is, I was being discerning when I joined the group. I did my due diligence - at least as much as I could - there were only 2 post
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