Gary and John Miller, for many years were relating to one another as being more than just being brothers in the faith - I think they at one time and for many years, were also good friends? Most who hear sympathize with where John Millers has found himself in life & probably can't even imagine how Gary could not be moved to make sure that John Miller, is helped to be financial
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

RE: Dangers of a spiritual hierarchy. John Stevens once said, to the ministries in the hearing of all of the congregation -" If you could get control of all of the people and their lives and get them to do what you wanted them to do - you would not have the oneness that God is looking for. " Seems John Steven's realized and understood that controlling people and controlling
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I previously said - that because the members idolized the leadership - that they are perversely loyal to the leadership. Definitions: idolize - To have inordinate love for; adore 2. To worship as an idol 3. To worship idols inordinate - Not restrained by prescribed rules or boundaries; immoderate; excessive Idolater - An adorer of images. 2. One who is inordinately fond of some person
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I remember how when one member died an early death - not suicide - his heart just gave out - I remember how the leader of the church , took a position at that man's memorial service to carrying on emotionally voicing how angry and upset he was with this man who died , for not having walked in the word over his life. He was voicing to the members of the church that this man was a spir
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Hi Changed Again, I couldn't remember for sure if one of the elders was Lloyd Hagloch or not - so I didn't write that part in detail. As you say, I also knew Lloyd Hagloch to always be kind and gentle natured. Both elders were kind but they still asserted themselves as if they were the authority in how they related to me. After I came out of the apartment - I was troubled in mys
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

John Horning wrote : Larry/FCSLC: Fond memories. I have pictures from Chico Camp. I also remember an announcemnt not to leave the camp premises so we headed off to Lassen National Park. What a great time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is something I experienced - where I had to get the permission of the elders to be able to enter the doors of
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

FCSLC posted Hebrews 1:3 NASB --- “He (Jesus) is the radiance of His (The Father’s) glory and the exact representation of His (The Father’s) nature.” ---------------------------------------- Now you too , have something to solid stand on. I received the understanding I received that I have been sharing here - from what is written in the Scriptures. ( Spiritually speaking) once I
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

To share another thing that helped me to put some things, into perspective. definition : Trust - firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability or strength of some one or something. Jeremiah 17:5 Thus says the Lord, Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind, And makes flesh His strength, And whose heart turns away from the Lord. Jer. 5:7 Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and who
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

To address another area of thinking that is held by TLWF - that is not according to what Christ taught and commanded and not according to what the early apostles taught the saints of the early church. This thinking held - is also a cause of miss treatment and unnecessary suffering - in the church. 1st Corinthians 6:4 Do not be yoked (bound) together with unbelievers for what partnership hav
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

John and Martha Stevens were divorced in October of 1980 . Around March of 1981 John and Marilyn were privately and secretly married and a small reception was held secretly at one of the other houses John owned, where about 20 guests or so were invited to attend the reception.. We, the two of us were invited to attend their wedding reception, on the same day of the reception. When called
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

To share some of my thoughts, RE; Freed to think Seeking truth, is one of the attributes, of having the freedom to think, for your self.. Free thinking, is one of the things that we begin to do, after we are no longer tethered in our minds to some one else's program, agenda and thoughts. When we begin to want to know the truth, we begin to examine what we have believed - t
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

RE: Another reason the members of TLWF obey their leaders. RE: Another strong hold and front that has bound the people so that they are obedient to their leaders and the leaders obedient to G&M in the wrong that they are led to do to their members . ---------- I don't know if you remember the many messages that John Stevens brought on submission and divine order. I believe tho
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

When Gary and Marilyn announced their engagement at the end of the service, Marilyn came up to me after the announcement looking to me to congratulate her and it just slipped out of my mouth that I was really shocked to hear , her eyes widened and narrowed and she gracefully slipped away from me looking for grats from many of the others. I saw that I had offended her and I believe this was the be
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

See There are also some basic "warning signs" to watch for when becoming involved with a particular groups or leader. See Unscrupulous and controlling leaers may manipulate the scriptures to excuse their behavior and control people, but by watching for the warning signs you can see a consistent pattern regardless of what the leader uses for his or her vehicle for control.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

This is one of the reasons I believe we were unable to clearly know the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Why when we saw our members being mistreated or wronged that we were unable to clearly recognize these things as being wrong. Even as to why we would make in our thinking - those things that are wrong into being what was right. Isaiah the prophet spoke concerning those
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

About 4 years after I stopped going to the church, when I was looking in the Scriptures, for answers how I should think about what was done to me and about what was still being done to me - which did not stop taking place because I stopped going to the church because my former spouse and my children were still active members of the church. And they were being told how to think and they were hol
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Yes, I was 24 years old - what did I know about life or relationships?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Re: Church We were receiving something that we valued or we would not have put our money in the offering plate.We may have wanted what ever we were getting or giving toward, at that time in our lives to last forever, for all the days of our life. But that was not possible at sometime in our lives or we would still be there. We would never have left and if it were as it once was - no one would
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quote: Changed Again wrote: experienced something similar, coincidentally after jokingly questioning my pastor's ability to steer the lives of the sheep while intoxicated, and once suggesting Rick might be benefiting from some favoritism. In my case, I was demoted from a shepherd (after serving seven years) to a set-aside elder. Furthermore, I was directed to turn pages for the pianist or
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Quote : Changedagain What happened to the proceeds of the sale? I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if it went into an account controlled by the Hargraves... ChangedAgain, In answer to your question, I was told by, A member of the S.G Church who was active at the time the S.G. church was sold, told me that they approached the overseeing shepherd of the S.G. church and
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Something to think about: Romans 5 - Never the less, Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had ( not ) sinned. Many of us have grown old and other's we know and love are following close behind those who are nearing, the end of their lives. Are we not dying one by one and as we bury one another - do we not hold fast to believing that our loved one is yet alive
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

RE: Martha Steven's, was the wife of John's youth In thinking on these things which have been written on this forum , about what was done to Martha and other married couples, I remembered the Scripture - that one is not to despise the wife of his youth and I found in Malachi , what I think is a good foundation in the Scriptures to support and make known - that what was done
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families