QuotezeuszorQuotecounselor47Quotezeuszor James 1:26 (RSV) If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain. Doug, can you please elaborate on precisely how James 1:26 has been twisted in TFI, and on a more correct interpretation as well? They interpreted bridling your tongue to mean that you should "say what'
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotezeuszor...What about the people who have left TFI, that no longer exist in Ole's mind? When I asked him about the book the first time, he said he didn't even remember Wendy Duncan. After I met her and asked him again, he remembered her then all right, and remembered her well, and had nothing nice to say. He basically called Doug a prostitute for marrying her. Ole can talk s**t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'll tell you one thing that is gossip. The Charisma piece says that John Rutledge wrote a 20-page response to Wendy's book. Apparently he is giving it to reporters, but he has not bothered to share it with us. If he thinks we are wrong about something he should let us know directly. I would like to see that 20-page response. Showing something like that to reporters but not to us a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAI do agree with you that the article is actually just straight reporting that there is controversy over the group. There does not seem to be a bias present in the blurb that was quoted. I am wrong if I try to paint it that way. I am however quite skeptical of any real discernment that many writers in the magazine might show. If you look in that issue for example, there are articles by
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAConsider too that Charisma is a magazine that works in the same strain as many word of faith/health and wealth/signs and wonders teachers. I would read very critically. It does not seem hard to believe that they may not take a high view of Trinity Foundation. Basically, the article is a straight reporting of the fact that there is a controversy. They do not take sides. The reporte
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From the article linked to on rickross: Quote“We want to present the people in this movie and the lifestyles they live in a neutral way so the audience would have to make those decisions on their own and not be handed a point of view on a platter, which sort of lets everyone off the hook in a way,” (filmmaker Rachel) Grady told Religion News Service. Nevertheless, they use as countering comm
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Really, though, Zeuszor is onto something here. One of the ways Trinity suppresses dissent and avoids accountability is by the members acting hurt and as though they personally are somehow victims whenever anyone criticizes the group. It is a form of emotional blackmail when they say, in essence, "If you speak critically about Trinity Foundation or its Fearless Leader then I will withdraw
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To be fair, lots of people coming out of cults need to seek some professional help. I personally know that several of the former members of Trinity Foundation have had to go through extensive psychotherapy to help them overcome the damage from the abuse and to get on with their lives. I do not condone ad hominem attacks, and I have told Zeuszor this. However, I think criticizing the practice
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAI do not mean to take the thread off topic Doug. I don't know the ins and outs of how TFI disiplines. I know that you would say it is not disipline, but abuse. I understand what it is like to talk to frustrating and ignorant people, ie. I have talked with members of the church of scientology who refuse to entertain new possibilites.(in my view) Know that is part of my way of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

My wife wrote it, and the title is I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult. You can order it directly from us at www.dallascult.com
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAThe point is, that putting someone out of the fellowship is Biblical, when it is done in the manner Jesus prescribed. Actually, this discussion has gotten kind of off-track. I acknowledge that there is a Biblically sound way for churches to exercise discipline, but that does not apply to the situation with Trinity as it applies to Wendy and me. We were not excommunicated, we simply
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAI will give you scriptural backing for the arguments I have made Brian. I made the mistake of assuming you knew the scriptures well enough to know which passages I speak of. Paul speaks about expelling divisive individuals as well as openly immoral ones. What about what Jesus says in Matthew 18:15-20? Here are a few verses for you to check out that I suggest you look at in context: 1
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From Rick Ross: Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Some Warning Signs of Potentially Abusive Groups Control-oriented style of leadership Excessive authoritarianism Lack of accountability of leadership Individuality is perceived to be sinful and is ridiculed Leadership is excessively esteemed Group has an elitist, superior view of itself Overemphasis on commitment and loyalty to the group Use of intimidation or psychological manipulation
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Send me a private message with your email on it and I will send you mine and we can do some of our personal catching up off of this forum. Your statement, "...come to Bible Study, let him know how you feel, get it out and hang out with the rest of us..." is just not going to work for some people. For one thing, for most of the former members that would not feel like a safe thing to do
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecherenuff1 I understand about the hurt feelings and why they would feel hurt, betrayed, etc. Remember...I was asked to leave and after finding the ex-members, I myself, wanted to think of Trinity as a cult. I, myself, put Ole as a cult leader. I mean, how DARE they ask me to leave when all I did was pretend to be pregnant and told others that I had an abortion.The only difference is that af
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecherenuff1Don't let that eat you for years like it has done to some. While I agree with your exhortation to Brian not to call people stupid and naive, I have to point out that you are implying that Wendy and I are eaten up with hatred, which is far from the truth. We do not hate anyone at Trinity. We are not eaten up, obsessed, or filled with anger, disappointment, or disgust. Actu
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi, Michelle. Good to hear from you. Let me clear up a couple of misconceptions. Upon leaving, I did not set out to destroy Ole, Trinity, or the work they do. When I first left Trinity, it was with every intention of remaining friends--or, at least continuing to be on a friendly basis. There was a whole series of things that happened with people saying hateful things to and about us that slowl
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAAfter spending the amount of time you did at Trinity and leaving on the terms you did, I suspect you have to justify your actions by making such a case. Of course, one could just as easily say that those still at Trinity have to make their case a certain way to justify their own actions. And, I did not really leave on bad terms. As a matter of fact, I did everything I could do
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAAll you've got so far are former upset members Doug, and one reporter. But it is practically all of the former members--dozens of people--that feel like Trinity was damaging to them. And, this includes people like Larry & Pam Ferguson, who were elders/Bible study teachers in the group, and Powell Holloway, who worked full time for the foundation and was with Ole when h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You've got more at stake here than I do Doug. After spending the amount of time you did at Trinity and leaving on the terms you did, I suspect you have to justify your actions by making such a case. I have been as objective as I have been able, I have laid it on the line and confessed openly my doubts as well as my skepticism. I mentioned the delegate thing because it is the most verifiable
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Tilton’s lawyers did not uncover this stuff because they did not spend the time to go through the record as carefully as did Wendy and Glenna. I am a bit confused why you have singled out the question of whether Ole was a delegate to the Republican convention or just an honorary sergeant-at-arms to focus on. In isolation, I do not see it as being a huge issue, except that it is part of a large
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To address your points more specifically: 1)the money Ole had at Meril Lynch was being taken care of by another Trinity member, it seems that Ole was not trying to hide it. Considering that the article says that Ole provided those records to them also strongly suggests that he was not deliberately hiding something. Ole says the money was being taken care of by another member. I certainly d
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanADid you even look at the points I made Doug? Am I just inventing explanations so I can believe what I want, or is there maybe something legitimate about what I am saying? You can make anything sound remotely plausible to believe what you want. Yet are these points I've made not highly plausible? If you're going to appear on the Rick Ross site arguing that Trinity is an ab
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well, it is pretty obvious that you already have your mind made up and that you are going to think what you want to think, regardless of what I say. The fact is that this debate could go on endlessly, and that feels pretty tedious to me. If you want to research this further you can get my wife's book and read it.[...] When Wendy and I first started this process, our goal was to simply
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, and those are the interesting kinds of issues that the movie could have explored. Most of those kids are going to end up with some serious issues. I just wish the filmmakers had not focused in on the political stuff. The horror of what is happening to those kids is not that they might grow up and vote Republican.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I saw Jesus Camp, and I was mostly disappointed. Too bad, because there are some interesting questions to explore around these topics, but it seemed to me that all the filmmakers wanted to do was set up a straw man and alarm everyone about the impending theocracy that these people are planning where things will be so oppressive that there might not even be abortion on demand. The horror! Sil
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAAlso, I flat out don't believe you when you call Ole a liar. I'd trust his word over yours. What evidence do you have that I have ever said anything in this context that is not true? There is not a single thing that I have written on any discussion board or that my wife wrote in her book that anybody from Trinity has been able to dispute, other than disagreeing with our j
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

If Ole is seen in the background of an interview with Benny Hinn, and is known as one of his most outspoken critics, it seems safe to take Ole at his word that he has indeed spoken with Benny. I know Ole quite well, and I have ample reasons not to take him at his word—the latest being his mendacity in saying that he does not remember my wife. And, you are ignoring what I said about his claims
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ole claimed he made attempts to contact Robert Tilton, W.V. Grant, and Larry Lea before helping ABC slam them in the original PrimeTime Live investigative piece, but I never saw any evidence that he had actually done so. As for Hinn, I don't know that sitting in the background during an interview really counts.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"