Think Christian weighs in:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNathanAI can see where you are coming from Doug in what you say about Ole being a lone ranger type. You could say he is uncomprimising in what he believes. I guess it depends on how you interpret it. There are some good questions about where true accountability is there that I think you have raised. It is not healthy if you can't be submitted to others, but you have to discern who is so
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorHopefully this furor will present somebody else from stumbling into the psychic ambush that is Trinity Foundation. I believe it already has.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorI don't see them reaping a lot of "good fruit", do you?Obviously, I think there are problems at Trinity. That is why I encouraged Wendy to write the book and why I started this thread. However, I did not do it so that I could condemn them or to stand in judgment of them. It is my hope that they will come to their senses, ask God to forgive them, make amends to the peopl
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteseekingI agree with Mark and the Zeus. Counselor47 always tries to be too fair and balanced. Hey, there are worse things than being fair and balanced. I do not want to be in the position of defending Ole or Trinity Foundation, but I am uncomfortable with saying that someone is not saved, as I do not think that is up to us to judge. See Romans 10: 6-11 (RSV) 6: But the righteousness bas
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Sure, something happened--although with Ole's tendency to exaggerate and play loose with the truth it is hard at this point to know exactly what. Nevertheless, the gifts and calling of God are given without repentence. God was at work on Ole just as He is at work on every man. Where Ole went wrong, IMHO, was that once he had his experience with God he did not go and be discipled somewhere. H
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorSo, if he's a bad guy, and he KNOWS that he's a bad guy, and even TELLS PEOPLE that he's a bad guy, why are some people so captivated by him? He is an interesing guy. I think he sort of has that "bad boy" thing working for him. QuoteLike, do you think he's trying to redeem himself somehow by giving his life to his so-called ministry? Of course. QuoteIf
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotechris.fitzpatrickCounselor47, I don't know how you arrived at me being arrogant, condescending or self righteous. I don't mean to be, I really need to go back and examine my posts, I am horrified that you would think that, not at you, but that somehow I might come off like that, if I was rude to you, I am sorry. Just because I don't perceive it, does not make it untrue, I ask
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotechris.fitzpatrickCounselor47, I have not taken a vow of poverty, seriously, but it is not only the love of money we are warned about, you will find plenty of references throughout the scripture of God warning His people with.... lest you grow fat and forget My commandments, lest you grow fat and forget me etc etc, here is a snippet of 'Official' IHOP (KC) doctrine Sub heading B un
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No, Ole does not care who else knows he is a bad guy. He freely admits that he is "Chief of Sinners." He thinks that all of his sins are covered by Christ's sacrificial atonement--and who are we to say that they are not? I don't say that Ole is not a believer. My point is that I do not think he is qualified to be in a position of spiritual leadership or authority. If he had co
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I haven't followed this thread, just dropped in and read Chris's last comments, but it strikes me that--about one thing, at least--you are making a bit of a straw man argument. Not everyone who is working for a living and making a salary to support themselves and their families is "worshipping the almighty dollar." There are alternatives other than the extremes of taking a vow
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Interesting article. I see parallels with what Ole did with the televangelists. I watched a documentary the other night on Jonestown, the cult enclave in Guyana led by Jim Jones, who fled San Francisco 30 years ago along with more than 1,000 of his followers in order to build a "new life" in the jungle. The documentary struck me because my new book, "Beyond Belief," is abou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorAlso: Doug, can you kindly tell us more about when Ole tried to move everybody out to that resort and all? It was a place in Arizona called Castle Hot Springs. It was an abandoned resort that Ole tried to get donated to Trinity Foundation. The idea was that we would all move out there and live in this isolated valley. This is a stage that most cults go through, when the leader realize
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteI just think she was upset and maybe felt like you guys wanted the notes destroyed to try and cover up your past sins.(I cat't say if that is true) This is wrong on at least a couple of levels. First of all, it is speculation about someone's speculation about our motives. I cannot imagine a right-thinking person saying Ole had any legitimate reason for keeping those notes, and y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorHow or why you guys want to continue to haggle with Nathan is beyond me. I mean, with all due respect. Doesn't it bore you? Does me. It's plain that Nathan has no real interest in finding the truth at the heart of the matter, and has made up his mind to see what he wants to see about TFI. He never even spoke from a fully informed opinion in the first place anyway, not remote
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Excellent points, Cultaware. There is a new book out by Phillip Zimbardo, The Lucifer Effect, that helps explain why cults behave as they do. Briefly, it has to do with systems of social pressure and control--perhaps most effective when carried out not by the leadership of a group but by the rank-and-file members. I fully understand that cherenuff was not acting at the behest of the leaders
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hello, Nathan. I am happy to see you back on the forum. I think the discussion is actually more interesting when there is someone playing devil's advocate, as long as you can remember to be appropriate and respectful of others. I think it is perfectly okay for you to defend Trinity, but it is not okay to attack or demean us or other former members. Also, understand that our experience is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This post can be found at There is perhaps no story more difficult to tell than our own, espeically when we’ve come through difficult times. Recognizing upfront that her story is subjective, Wendy Duncan has set out to tell of her time in the Trinity Foundation, a non-profit organization located in Dallas, TX, which she claims, is actually a cult. According to the Trinity Foundation website:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

In an attempt to get this discussion back on track, I want to pull us back to the topic that I started the whole thread with, which is what can be learned about Trinity Foundation by looking at its attitude toward and treatment of its former members. In particular, I would like to examine what has happened with the shredding of the hot seat notes and how the whole thing was handled in the contex
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I doubt whether it is pertinent from a legal point of view, but your friend might find it helpful in terms of helping him understand his boss's behavior. Legally, I think the issue is going to be how your friend was actually treated by his boss, not what the boss's personality issues are.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorHi all. I just lent a friend my copy of Stout's The Sociopath Next Door in an effort to help him understand the motivations of his particularly difficult boss at work. Excellent book, that one. Can anybody else offer me any insights and/or advice toward identifying and dealing with sociopaths in everyday life? Moderator, what do you say? If you suspect someone of being a soci
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

People there know, but they cannot admit it to themselves. If they did, then they would have to do something about it. Good point, though, about them becoming exactly what they hate. Trinity has turned out to be just as hypocritical as the televangelists they investigate.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I hope anybody who is reading this thread has the discernment to see chrenuff's posts for exactly what they are: an overt attempt by a CULT to try to intimidate its former members into silence.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well, I'm glad their gone, at least. I wonder why John and/or Gary were afraid to call and tell me themselves. Ole must have made some rule about not talking to Wendy or me.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteThe notes were destroyed weeks ago. Frankly, it was a very low priority on my end but found out anyway and they are gone, destroyed. I thought you said you would notify us when it was done. The amount of condescension you show here is emblematic of the whole problem I have with Trinity, which is the way it dehumanizes its former members. As Rick Ross has noted, this is the most accurate baro
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorShoot, I've got Ole's direct phone number and could call any of them whenever I wished. I think I'd even get a kind of a kick out of it actually. Why not go visit the old man? Why don't you just call John R. and ask him if it's done? If not, ask him why they have made it such a low priority. If he says they have done it, ask him why he (or Gary) have not had
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That shouldn't be necessary. They should at least have the integrity to do what they say they are going to do without us having to badger them into it.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Weeks later and I'm still waiting to hear from them. I wonder if they were ever really serious about this, or if it was just another lie.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecounselor47I request that either John or Gary contact me directly when it is done to certify by their word that it has taken place. I'm still waiting to hear from them. I'm not sure how long it takes to shred some notes--I guess it depends on whether you have to stop and read them first.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From David Upton's blog: With Easter fast approaching I am reminded of how special it is. Of course we remember Christ’s death and resurrection every time we participate in a communion service but many of us also see Easter as a time for our own spiritual ‘death and resurrection’ by either rededicating our lives to Christ as I did twenty-one years ago or by surrendering to Christ for the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"