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14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuoteughaibuUpsidedownnewspaper: Is it germane to "maintain that AA is not a destructive cult"? Considering the inquiry addressed by this thead, you may be crying before you're hurt. You should also bear in mind that on various threads members of the (alleged) cult, under discussion, have appeared and attempted to justify the organisation in question. So, if you intend to success
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraQuoteIt isn't about language... Language is important... It's about the courts... It's about my experience... It's about predatorial people in society.. This seems to me like an attempt to discredit the thread such as posts by those referred to as "trolls". When the moderator suggests starting afresh, barabara, I don't think what w
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
For the Falun Gong database? A transcript of an interview on Australia ABC "Lateline" program regarding claims supported by former Canadian parliamentarian David Kilgour that the Chinese Government has been using Falun Gong political prisoners for the harvesting of body organs. Horrific story. But is it credible?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabaraupside down: QuoteI've wanted you to go away and think very carefully about what you think about AA before coming here and spraying "frustrated" rhetoric at the expense of the AA organisation. And I have wanted you to go away and find another place to vent your ire, as you are probably intimidating those who, like me, wanted to discuss the issue of AA and the courts
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraI have been accused of misrepresenting AA by relating my experiences, by colter, and I have been told, by you, that AA is not harmful. As I, and others here, have gone into a great deal of detail about exactly how we feel we and our loved ones were harmed, (in many cases the complaints center around being coerced, often deceptively, into adopting an alien spiritual belief system),
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraGood idea. Why don't you post on that thread if landmark and scientology are what you are interested in? For those who are interested in AA, the Big Book does say, in those exact words, that "Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God...", so it's not like I'm adding my own interpretation. And for the final time, no-one is stop
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraThe actuality of what is being discussed is a program that insists on surrender to a "higher power", God, according to the AA literature. Well, I think you are being quite cultish in your insistence upon that interpretation of the Big Book, barabara, but fine. I suspect you are making the mistake, again, of thinking, as Ughaibu has so rightly pointed out, that this is
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuoteughaibuUpsidedownnewspaper: You are still looking at this as a matter of language, whether the term used is "religious" or "philosophical" makes no difference to the actuality of what is being discussed. Ughaibu, you are exactly right. Whether the term is "religious" or "philosophical", "god" or "Mr Sobriety", "Alcoholic
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuoteColterPrimitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotekathQuoteupsidedownnewspaperQuotebarabaraPosting a link to the website would be nice. That way we could verify whether or not you used an actual quote, and see for ourselves what they have to say. Look it up. You've got the web? The burden is on someone making an argument to provide sources for it. It's called scholarship. Perhaps I should have bolded the words, "As
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabara1. AA is not responsible for the actions of its members, even though they claim to be concerned and to have put "checks and balances" in place. Of course they are not. That's a commonplace in these lawsuit-crazed days. Find me an organisation that doesn't have a small-print clause that they are not responsible for the actions of their members. Your arguments
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraAfter all, your purpose here isn't constructive, anyway, is it? Isn't your intent to create a disruption for your own enjoyment, anyway? Are you even an AA member? If you want a private discussion, do it via the private mail function. This is the Australian Alcoholics Anonymous website. How does it compare to America? The part I cut and pasted may be found u
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraPosting a link to the website would be nice. That way we could verify whether or not you used an actual quote, and see for ourselves what they have to say. Look it up. You've got the web? QuotebarabaraUnlike the website from Melborne, does the AA I have been to do these things? QuoteFurnish initial motivation for alcoholics to recover Solicit members Yes, through the
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Perhaps AA is just a destructive cult in America. Or just in your part of America?
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
It seems an AA group in, say, Melbourne, Australia differs enormously from an AA group in, say, the religious belt of America. In the case of an extremely conservative, orthodox religious locale, I imagine even a trip to the supermarket might seem like a venture into a cult. As for Australia, here is what the AA website tells people. Does this differ from your area? QuoteA.A. does not:
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraIt's yet another bait-and-switch stunt. You agreed to "medical treatment," not religious indoctrination. AA does not offer medical diagnoses. No member agrees to medical treatment. QuotebarabaraThe twelve-step true believers wanted the job so that they could redirect all of the nation's alcoholics and drug addicts into their 12-Step religion. It's calle
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotedwestQuoteupsidedownnewspaperQuotebarabaraQuote It's about predatorial people in society.. It isn't about having a discussion; It's about causing disruption to one, maybe because you don't like what's being said. It's about trying to kill a thread. It's about how much you enjoy baiting others here. Kind of like the way you baited Richard Green on ano
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraI'm finding the history of Buchman and the Oxford group, and how much AA dogma owes to Buchman's ideas, absolutely fascinating. Especially the ideas about receiving God's guidance only through group consensus, which has carried over into AA. Very interesting. Yes, that would be interesting reading.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraQuote It's about predatorial people in society.. It isn't about having a discussion; It's about causing disruption to one, maybe because you don't like what's being said. It's about trying to kill a thread. It's about how much you enjoy baiting others here. Kind of like the way you baited Richard Green on another thread. It's about havi
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuoteughaibuUpsidedownnewspaper: This isn't about language, it's about the underlying concepts. These are concepts which are group-specific, they are not general, and, as such, adoption of these concepts causes dependence on the organisation (AA) and reduces the member's integration in general society. The question is whether or not it is acceptable for the courts to offer Hobson&#
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabaraupside down: QuoteIf you like, we can start using the word, "Intelligent design" or "Matrix". How about we just use the word "troll"? But be ready for the antitrollists. I was thinking a sort of non-gender specific, god-free "Mr Sobriety" in a big cuddly blue suit. Or green if blue has some sort of fantastic, unreality smurf connotation.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabara ...but I assure you that the lawmakers are at present and will be in the future concerned with the issues we have been discussing. ...no doubt! Driving us further and further into a kindergarten state where language usage is policed, concepts of god are neutralised, burkhas and Christmas and Ramadan and black t-shirts with skulls on them are banned from public schools, jails are
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Scrubbing the word 'god' from dictionaries would be as productive.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuoteughaibuThere has been some mention of court rulings requiring attendance of Alcoholics Anonymous as a release condition, can somebody provide more information about this, please. Specifically, in which countries, under which provisions of law, how Alcoholics Anonymous was classified for the purpose and how restricting the options to this group was justified. Yes, this would be interesting
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotebarabaraWhat exactly is your point? OK, I think AA is a cult. I can go into great detail if you'd like. Does that satisfy you? No. You can argue until you are blue in the face that AA is cult-like, but it is not a group that meets the Rick Ross definition of a destructive cult.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabara Isn't insisting that AA "is not a cult" really intended to silence detractors of the organization? So it seems to me. Poor experiences ALONE do not warrant the group being discussed on this messageboard. Else I could start a thread about the slide show I was made to endure at a friend's house last week.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabara I prefer not to get into the argument about the meaning of the word "cult" Then you are in the wrong thread.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
Quotebarabara Personally, I don't care whether or not anyone believes AA is a "cult". I am more interested in discussing the damage some people claim to have suffered in AA, ( some of us believe we and our loved ones suffered damage in AA). I believe we are attempting to understand and possibly remedy that damage. All of this tedious haggling over semantics is merely an
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
I just don't think AA is a destructive cult worthy of the Rick Ross messageboard for the following reasons. Tell me if these points are correct, please, anybody: Complaints arise from AA before, during, and after the group's influence? AA is accountable in the event of serious complaints? AA is not exclusively the only option available to alcoholics? The twelve steps of AA
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
14 years ago
upsidedownnewspaper
QuotedwestQuoteupsidedownnewspaperControversial groups like Scientology and Landmark produce complaints only once a member is outside of the influence of the group. From my reading of this thread (I am only halfway through) it seems that the complaints arising from AA come from participants before, during and after participation in the group. That, to me, is what distinguishes AA from being
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse
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