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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: Moishe3rd ()
Date: August 14, 2007 09:10PM

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kageki
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No, I don't think so.
I quite specifically laid out the conditions of my interest in dialog, and you rejected them.
I have no interest in refuting silly meanderings on your part, nor engaging with one who continues in the mode of "they all do it, so stop blaming the Arab/Muslim fascist death cult Jihaddi terrorist murderers."
Nope. I think I'll continue to focus on the problem, not some peripheral nonsense...

What part of no I don't condone any atrocities do you not understand?

It is called qualifying all statements with excuses for the behavior:

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Does this mean you excuse the mass slaughter of innocents by US, UK and even Israel? I don't condone any heinous acts of atrocities by anyone.

Why is it "bizarre" reasoning to protest against foreign military bases and the plundering of resources by foreign corporations? For instance Japan has had a US military base in Okinawa since the end of WWII. There has been large protests by the locals against this base because there has been problems like rape committed by US soldiers of Japanese women. Is it "bizarre" for them to then protest against this foreign military base in their country?

Why is the onus always on the Muslims? The US and UK has a very long history of bloody colonialism and imperialism. It was the US that dropped the atomic bomb and still continues to completely cover up the real consequences of a nuclear bomb. Is that not one of the biggest crimes of this century? What about Israel and their numerous human rights violation?

It's true these fundamentalists are dangerous people and this is why most regular Muslims condemn them too. Ironically the US seems to support these fundamentalists as well since they helped put up the Shah in Iran and continue to support Saudia Arabia, a fundamentalist country.

Many US soldiers are questioning some of these events and believe it to be an inside job.

What about Jews then? Let's not forget there are some Jewish cults listed on this website here.

Columbine and the Trenchcoat mafia were all Jewish kids and shot a girl for holding a Bible:

Jack the Ripper was a Jew:

My point is that everyone has blood on their hands. I have even criticized my own father for "defending" the allegations against Japan of wartime crimes. There is also a lot of misinformation out there. Personally my problem with the Islamic fascist angle is that it seems to be blown out of proportion which has been aided by the media and this rampant misinformation has lead to stereotyping of all Arabs. Even if these fundamentalists are dangerous why is the US being completely hypocritical in who they go after in the middle east? I just don't believe we are told the whole story.

Israel has everything to do with the conflict over there. I agree though that these fundamentalists are dangerous people with their desire for Sharia law. That is why I want the US government to stop supporting these fundamentalist regimes like Saudi Arabia or even the Taliban.

As it ever was this has been the classic chicken and the egg question. Who started first? Did Bin Laden type people exist before WWII? Did all the middle east conflict start before the creation of Israel? Real history Moishe? What about the Jewish declaration of war on Germany?

Moishe, I condemn atrocities committed by anyone. It is you that does not condemn US and Israel equally in this mess. Let me remind you that Israel is the sole nuclear power in that region with a formidable military that is quickly rivaling the superpowers of this world funded by US taxpayers. You keep complaining about these "death cultists" while you have crazy Israelis calling for a nuclear strike on Iran!

Who is really oppressed over there?

All of your posts excuse any peripheral agreement that Arab/Islamic fascist death cult terrorist Jihaddi might be murdering scum with the qualifier that "what about....?"
And then you proceed to post silly or inflammatory information on your perceived grievances against Jews or the US or whomever...

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: August 14, 2007 11:36PM

Quote
Moishe3rd
All of your posts excuse any peripheral agreement that Arab/Islamic fascist death cult terrorist Jihaddi might be murdering scum with the qualifier that "what about....?"
And then you proceed to post silly or inflammatory information on your perceived grievances against Jews or the US or whomever...

On the money. This is just another fool with an internet connection who sees no difference between flat-out nazi propaganda and legitimate critiques of the US and Israel. Judicial-biz is a classic fascist website with only one purpose: blame Jews for all the world's problems.

The jihadists are the number one problem in the world today, and the US should mainly be criticized for ENABLING them in Chechnya, Kosovo, Macedonia, Palestine, Kashmir, etc. Just like the Soviets are doing with Hamas and Iran, our leaders think radical muslims can be used to continue the Cold War, without considering that we should be building an anti-jihadist alliance with Russia, China, Israel, India, and any other country having to deal with jihad.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: Moishe3rd ()
Date: August 15, 2007 03:19AM

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shakti
Quote
Moishe3rd
All of your posts excuse any peripheral agreement that Arab/Islamic fascist death cult terrorist Jihaddi might be murdering scum with the qualifier that "what about....?"
And then you proceed to post silly or inflammatory information on your perceived grievances against Jews or the US or whomever...

On the money. This is just another fool with an internet connection who sees no difference between flat-out nazi propaganda and legitimate critiques of the US and Israel. Judicial-biz is a classic fascist website with only one purpose: blame Jews for all the world's problems.

The jihadists are the number one problem in the world today, and the US should mainly be criticized for ENABLING them in Chechnya, Kosovo, Macedonia, Palestine, Kashmir, etc. Just like the Soviets are doing with Hamas and Iran, our leaders think radical muslims can be used to continue the Cold War, without considering that we should be building an anti-jihadist alliance with Russia, China, Israel, India, and any other country having to deal with jihad.
Yes, you are correct but...
The wheels of government turn exceedingly slow and the perceptions of the people keep time...
The Soviet Union was our ally, even after the atrocities of Lenin and Stalin, for realpolitik's sake. Then - uneasy alliance; cold peace; passive resistance; detente; etc. Always giving in and enabling the Soviets by not taking a firm stand - settling for 1/2 of Korea, thereby condemning millions of North Koreans to perpetual slavery; leaving Vietnam, thereby letting millions more be slaughtered...
Finally, President Reagan, step by careful step, bankrupted and defeated the Soviet Union whereupon it collapsed.
Unfortunately, part of the defeat of the Soviet Union consisted enabling the Islamic fascists in Afghanistan and Iran and Saudi Arabia. Reagan was blind to this development - as were those that followed him.
Even though President Bush has had his nose rubbed in the problem of Islamic fascism and is attempting to deal with it, he is using the tactics of the Cold War and the fight against Communism. And, he is not doing very well, at that.
The main difficulty is that, unlike Communism and other enemies, the United States (and Israel, in large part) refuses to name and denigrate its enemy - Islamic fascism.
We are indeed fighting a war of appeasement by refusing to vilify; condemn; and state, in no uncertain terms, that Islamic fascism is an evil tribal death cult that is a political system that is being used to promulgate fantasies of some kind of great imaginary Caliphate. It is a religious political cult that has millions of people believing that murder and destruction are to be desired at any cost.
And, yes, the US (and Israel) is enabling that cult by refusing to call it out and demand that every Muslim or Islamic government condemn it and fight against it.
You are correct.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 15, 2007 04:00AM

Quote
shakti
On the money. This is just another fool with an internet connection who sees no difference between flat-out nazi propaganda and legitimate critiques of the US and Israel. Judicial-biz is a classic fascist website with only one purpose: blame Jews for all the world's problems.

The jihadists are the number one problem in the world today, and the US should mainly be criticized for ENABLING them in Chechnya, Kosovo, Macedonia, Palestine, Kashmir, etc. Just like the Soviets are doing with Hamas and Iran, our leaders think radical muslims can be used to continue the Cold War, without considering that we should be building an anti-jihadist alliance with Russia, China, Israel, India, and any other country having to deal with jihad.

I suppose the US and Israel do not engage in propaganda either?

Now you mention the magic work, ENABLING. I've remarked about this several times in my posts. Now what does enabling mean? Funding? Support? Perhaps even responsible for their rise? Don't you see the utter contradiction in what the US is saying?

I have also questioned why the US considers Saudi Arabia, a fundamentalist country, an ally when it's clear they are funding some of these terrorists. This is exactly what I mean that it's not cut and dry. Thanks for proving my point there bud.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: August 15, 2007 08:23PM

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kageki
Quote
shakti
On the money. This is just another fool with an internet connection who sees no difference between flat-out nazi propaganda and legitimate critiques of the US and Israel. Judicial-biz is a classic fascist website with only one purpose: blame Jews for all the world's problems.

The jihadists are the number one problem in the world today, and the US should mainly be criticized for ENABLING them in Chechnya, Kosovo, Macedonia, Palestine, Kashmir, etc. Just like the Soviets are doing with Hamas and Iran, our leaders think radical muslims can be used to continue the Cold War, without considering that we should be building an anti-jihadist alliance with Russia, China, Israel, India, and any other country having to deal with jihad.

I suppose the US and Israel do not engage in propaganda either?

Now you mention the magic work, ENABLING. I've remarked about this several times in my posts. Now what does enabling mean? Funding? Support? Perhaps even responsible for their rise? Don't you see the utter contradiction in what the US is saying?

I have also questioned why the US considers Saudi Arabia, a fundamentalist country, an ally when it's clear they are funding some of these terrorists. This is exactly what I mean that it's not cut and dry. Thanks for proving my point there bud.

Yes, I would agree that it is very complicated and that the US is far from innocent.

HOWEVER, as an American, as an infidel, Islam has crossed the line. You are obviously on the other side and wish for us to be destroyed along with Israel. Fine, that is your opinion. In the end, the American people will wake up and you will lose.

We will stand by Israel, we will even stand by Europe, though they show very little spine in standing up to Islam.

Israel, while far from perfect, is still a far better ally than ANY muslim country and we will not abandon her, though all the cynics and "realists" will beg otherwise.

This is us.

[www.youtube.com]


This is the enemy.

[littlegreenfootballs.com]


[littlegreenfootballs.com]

Any questions?

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 15, 2007 09:59PM

Quote
shakti

Yes, I would agree that it is very complicated and that the US is far from innocent.

HOWEVER, as an American, as an infidel, Islam has crossed the line. You are obviously on the other side and wish for us to be destroyed along with Israel. Fine, that is your opinion. In the end, the American people will wake up and you will lose.

We will stand by Israel, we will even stand by Europe, though they show very little spine in standing up to Islam.

Israel, while far from perfect, is still a far better ally than ANY muslim country and we will not abandon her, though all the cynics and "realists" will beg otherwise.

That's funny you would choose a video of an African-American marine when you know the extensive abuse of African-Americans in the history of the US. They were in segregated armies during WWII and their accomplishments during that era has largely been ignored. What about the Tuskeegee experience where the government injected those men with syphilis?

This is also US marines:
[video.google.com]

My Lai massacre?

This is also Israel:
[youtube.com]

You still continue to deny the provocations by the US. No I don't want the US destroyed. You must realize that some Americans just want the government to get out of the internal affairs of other countries. Why should we continue to fund Israel when regular Americans are struggling to afford education and decent healthcare?

You are right Americans are waking up to all the lies and deception going on like the reason for the Iraq war and are standing up to the crimes committed by their own country. I probably care more about the American PEOPLE rather then your desires of destroying the middle east. How much do you want to bet that these radical Muslims will go away if US, UK and Israel just stopped meddling with their affairs?

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: August 15, 2007 11:08PM

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kageki
w much do you want to bet that these radical Muslims will go away if US, UK and Israel just stopped meddling with their affairs?

I would bet you anything! Are you aware of the jihad in Thailand? Will those muslims stop their jihad if the US leaves Iraq and stops supporting Israel? Will the Muslims in the Phillipines stop? Will the Iranians stop their nuclear program? Will their leader stop hosting Holocaust denial conventions? Will the Sudanese jihadists end their slaughter in Darfur? The answer to all of these is , of course, no! We supported the Afghan jihad through the 80s, gave their leaders visas and connections, let them settle in our country, and then they STILL turned on us and pulled off the WTC attack in '93! We have supported their jihad in Kosovo and in Chechnya, yet still no gratitude. Enough is enough.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 16, 2007 05:57AM

Quote
shakti
I would bet you anything! Are you aware of the jihad in Thailand? Will those muslims stop their jihad if the US leaves Iraq and stops supporting Israel? Will the Muslims in the Phillipines stop? Will the Iranians stop their nuclear program? Will their leader stop hosting Holocaust denial conventions? Will the Sudanese jihadists end their slaughter in Darfur? The answer to all of these is , of course, no! We supported the Afghan jihad through the 80s, gave their leaders visas and connections, let them settle in our country, and then they STILL turned on us and pulled off the WTC attack in '93! We have supported their jihad in Kosovo and in Chechnya, yet still no gratitude. Enough is enough.

Ok you obviously are not even trying to read further into anything you talk about. You seem to have a reactionary response in seeing Muslims/Jihad and violence lumped together.

[en.wikipedia.org]
[www.asiasource.org]

It seems like in the Philippines and possibly even Thailand is more of a nationalist movement. Here we see again American influences along with Spanish colonialism.

Darfur also seems much more complicated then you make it. The start of the conflict doesn't seem religious but more a racial/political matter:

[en.wikipedia.org]
[www.jamestown.org]

Interesting quote from that article:

"The growing relationship between the CIA and the Sudanese security chiefs (some of whom were named in Congress as suspects in Darfur war-crimes) has effectively sidelined U.S. influence in Darfur."




Iraq/Israel doesn't seem to be related to any of these other conflicts at all. Can you just stop being so simplistic? You do realize there are many different denominations within Christians and Jews?

My stance on Iran's nuclear ambition will no doubt be controversial, but I will state it anyways. One needs to realize that Israel already has nuclear weapons and is the only nuclear power in that region. With this in mind, Iran's nuclear ambition would simply achieve balance in that region via mutually assured destruction. With constant threats from Israel to use their nukes and a US invasion looming in the air, Iran is the one that is on the defensive, contrary to what the media says.

Also the Iranian President has never said he wants to "destroy Israel" or anything near as horrific sounding. He has no intention of a massacre, but he is for the dismantlement of the political state of Israel.

[www.mohammadmossadegh.com]



You also have no problem stating that the US has supported these jihadists?? Again you simplify everything and ignore the possibility that the US has done something bad in return. The Afghans were bitter when the US literally left them in the dust as soon as the Soviets went home.

WTC '93
[en.wikipedia.org]

USS Cole Bombing
[en.wikipedia.org]

"Evidence of al-Qaeda's involvement was inconclusive for months after the attack. The staff of the 9-11 Commission found that al-Qaeda's direction of the bombing was under investigation but "increasingly clear" on November 11, 2000. It was an "unproven assumption" in late November. By December 21 the CIA had made a "preliminary judgment" that "al Qaeda appeared to have supported the attack," with no "definitive conclusion."[12]"


It seems like you will most likely deny everything I say anyways and then mock about "conspiracy theories" and you are free to say so, but I simply will not tolerate such an uneducated, simplistic explanation of world events. Please read more then the headlines or just read anything other then US mainstream media. Everyone else in the world thinks Americans are the most ignorant people because of this.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: brainstormer ()
Date: August 16, 2007 06:47PM

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"rachel1965"
Here's the crux of the problem: how do you argue with someone who is vehement that God has told him to eradicate all those who don't believe a certain faith?


Teach them the value of humility. Being humble allows us to fully see the world around us, to accept the wisdom of others, and is directly what a just God would want for us.

If we can get the terrorists to see the value of the true religious virtues, we can get them to stop being terrorists.

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What do the extremist Muslims really want
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 16, 2007 06:48PM

To whom it may concern:

Moishe3rd seems to be little more than an Internet troll here to disrupt and if possible subvert threads, i.e. argue and argue and argue.

He has attempted this behavior on more than one thread.

See [board.culteducation.com]

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