Some of the ministers or workers in the "Truth" have been guilty of some abuse. In Western Canada, scores of professing people have been kicked out of the truth sect for questioning the workers.

Alberta, BC and SK have had instances where workers demanded submission and kicked some of the friends out of the truth. In the Truth sect, leaving the truth is seen as a ticket to hell.

Workers like Paul Chiu, Jim Knipe, Willis Propp, Paul Sharp, Dale Shultz, and others have kicked scores of professing people (even fellow workers) out of the fellowship!

Professing people hold the workers in such high esteem that it is humiliating to be reprimanded by them.

Workers have often given the friends a "worker talk" for failing to keep up their "standard". Girls have been ridiculed for trimming their hair or wearing pants. Men have been ridiculed for wearing facial hair (no longer a problem)

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There is something about the workers that often commands respect. They are quiet people. They are dressed up. They never get into loud debates or discussions.

It is easy to see why the friends have allowed the workers to excersize power or authority over them.

Workers can be gentle and kind to new converts for awhile until the person is expected to grow into an understanding of what they must give up in order to be a "true child of God".

In the "Truth", there were no written rules. Yet many obligations. And our parents taught us to never question a worker. And we relied on them for spiritual guidance.

Yet in their preaching they demand obedience, sumbissmion, fitting in/filling one's place. They demand certain changes in order to be a child of God concerning entertainment, dress, worshipping only with the "friends" among other things.

I think many of the "servants of God" do care for the flock and feel that they are spiritual guides for the friends. Workers may write letters, phone the friends, give the erring friend a worker talk or kick people out of the fellowship when they fail to maintain the "high standard of Truth".
Workers can be gentle and sweet when you obey them and don't question anything. They are strongly against people asking them questions about their history, rules, only way belief and other things.

Many professing people have felt obligated to do certain things the workers or other friends asked them to do! Professing people value harmony and unity in the fellowship meetings.

People have led meetings, driven long distances to meetings, opened their homes to the workers, given secret contributions to the workers, avoided unprofessing family members, given up worldly things in their home and other things just to please the workers.

Ok people. I'm about to put in my two-cents worth, so bear with me because it gets a little lengthy.

Let me start by asking a simple question: How can the Truth be considered a cult? Is it because of it's simplicity that people cannot understand? Is it because of the meeting in peoples' homes? Is it because you see the women, often, wearing their long hair up, and skirts or dresses? How is any of this anything like a cult?

People simply cannot correctly comprehend the Bible without the Holy Spirit to guide them, this much is clear. There are always spirits to help people to interpret the Bible. But with the Holy Spirit, there is no room for misinterpretation, since the Bible is the Word of God spoken of in John 1:1 (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God). We know, by the Holy Spirit, that the Word in reference was Christ. Therefore, God and Christ are one. The Holy Spirit is God's spirit, therefore is God. So, therein we have the Trinity of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit helps us to understand God's word, because the Holy Spirit IS God.

Friends meet in each other's homes to study and discuss the Word of God. We do this with the aid of the Holy Spirit to help us discover the meaning of the Word. We meet in Homes or public buildings on occasion because we don't see need to build a (Church) building of earthly material which will perish at the end of the world anyway. Instead, we use peoples' homes or public buildings because the physical body needs shelter and would therefore need the building anyway. We don't use peoples' homes to try to keep secret ... after all, wouldn't the multitude of cars outside the home make it quite obvious that something was going on there? And wouldn't that make some curious soul come over some time and ask what's going on all the time?

Women often wear long hair (it is given them for a covering), even outside the Truth. The purpose for the wearing of skirts is that it is more modest than the pants many women wear, in that a skirt doesn't allow others to see a "pantyline" or the form of a woman's legs. Anyway, there ARE times when pants are MORE modest for a woman to wear, and at those times you will find many women in the Truth to wear pants. It's simply a matter of proper judgement guided by the Holy Spirit.

Also, regarding the "secrecy" of meeting in each other's homes: granted cults are secretive organizations. But if the friends were trying to keep the Truth a secret, would that not then be a "practice" that is contridicted by people who are in the truth bringing people to meeting, and actually being ENCOURAGED to do so? We are having Gospel Meetings where I live, and the workers told us to invite others to come next time. The whole "secrecy" bit, as applied to meetings, comes from a majority that does not understand the simplicity of Truth and therefore criticizes what they can't understand. In fact, it's been proven that people do FEAR what they don't or can't understand, and fear is often the source of ridicule and other criticism.

I realize that we all have the freedom of speech, and this is why I am taking this opportunity to defend my Faith, and the simplistic exercising of that Faith that the friends and workers practice.

Marzman,
The biggest problem lies in the fact that for many professing families, the "Truth" was the only acceptable form of religion and all other religions were considered to be of the devil!

Truth was seen as the only right way. Keeping up the standard of the head workers were considered to be the only right way to live.

Professing people dressed like the workers told them to dress. Professing people felt they must attend every meeting possible in order to have a chance of going to heaven. Professing people felt they must not own a television in order to please the workers and professing friends or family! Subtle peer pressure to encouraged the friends to comply with these man made rules of an earlier generation.

Maybe Marzman you aren't as old as some of us and don't remember the old standards set by earlier workers that are still an undercurrent in the fellowship today!

Senior workers would get on the platform of a convention and push rules and blast other churches! And oh how they promoted the notion that the "friends" or "people of God" were the best people on earth!

The problem developed over the years to the point that professing people had limited contact with unprofessing people! In my younger professing days, I was standoffish at school or work. Professing people cannot talk about TV shows, music , movies or religion with non-members of the "lost and perishing world". Professing people don't talk religion and only invite the non-members to gospel meetings! Professing people cannot explain how their church has no name yet many names.

Spiritual isolation produces a narrowminded and insecure person!

Ok, I've got some more for you to hear. First of all, humans simply cannot comprehend the true meaning of the Bible unless they have the Holy Spirit with them. The Holy Spirit will NOT lead people astray. As for the head workers, they do not propose the "only right way to live" they merely make suggestions (based on the Bible, mind you). They go out as Christ instructed His apostles to do and give good example. And, people realize that they are only human too.

There are plenty of worldly church-goers that feel they must attend services regularly to go to heaven. Most professing people feel that attending meeting is good for them, yes. And most professing people try to never miss meeting. But, it's not to assure that they're going to heaven ... no, it is NOT necessary but it IS nice to have fellowship with God amongst like-faithed and similarly-minded people. Who doesn't like to be amongst those who share views and faith? Even worldly church-goers feel this way.

As for television, I know MANY professing people that own television sets, and the workers stay with them too. The thing about T.V. is this; like a lot of other chruch-goers, the friends don't like to take part in much of the obscenity and filth that is allowed to permeate and run rampant on public television. However, many of the professing people that I know allow themselves to watch some T.V. Besides, in referal to those friends who don't have a television; I also know worldly church-goers that are so self-righteous that they don't have televisions, but go around to other worldly friends of theirs to watch their shows or find out what happened last time.

Senior workers dismiss the teachings of worldly churches, yes. This is because mankind cannot understand the Scriptures without the Holy Spirit being upon them. It is, to put it simply, too simple for the human mind to comprehend, and without the Holy Spirit, man tends to add all this unnecessary stuff to it as their interpretation. This also leads to the addition (or taking away) of some key elements of scripture. Of course, man has a spirit with them at all times. If, however, it's not the Holy Spirit (which sadly it often times is not) it's some other deceiving spirit, which would be of the Devil in some way. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that any resulting interpretation of the Bible, and therefore the resulting "church" is of the Devil. I have never heard any workers or professing people claim that the friends were the best people on earth. Quite the contrary! I always hear how we are servants of God, and to discribe oneself as a servant is HARDLY claiming to be the best person on earth! We simply serve the best Master that the earth has ever known, at any point in history.

And, as for the "limited contact" with unprofessing people, I mentioned this before; who really wants to be around people with different faith, lest they be caused to backslide? I know many worldly churches that suggest keeping to those of the same beliefs as theirs. However, professing people do NOT tell other professing people to keep to themselves. And I know many people in the Truth that discuss television shows and movies. Like I said before, they simply choose against the filth and obscenities that are so prevalent on most T.V. shows.

As for the friends not discussing religion, I have to laugh at that one. What exactly am I doing? You don't mean online? Well, I happen to know many friends that discuss their faith with those of other faith. Many times I find the friends simply living differently and others come up and ask them about what is different. This has happened to me. When this happens, often times the interested individual is invited to meeting (whether there's a Gospel meeting going on at that point or not). I personally was invited to regular meetings and special meetings for a long time (almost 2 years) before I ever went to a Gospel meeting. And I was warmly welcomed and felt accepted by the friends. And at peace internally; much more so than I have ever felt at any worldly church.

You want an explanation about the name thing? People of the world have to have labels for everything. The friends have never labeled themselves with a "church name" or affiliated themselves with a "denomination". Saying that one is in the Truth is simply refering to that person being in God's Word (the Bible, the Truth). It's not a reference to a specific church. It is the world that has given those names (like 2x2, two by two, the Truth church, the Jesus way, etc.) to the friends (do you notice how I don't capitalize "friends" and capitalize "Truth" only as it's in reference to God's Word?).

I have to say that if you were often times standoffish at work or school, then that's all you, bud. I've never known the average kid growing up in the truth to be as such, even in public school. On the same hand, I've known many children of worldly parents to be that way; I wasn't raised in the Truth (or knowing anything about it, in fact) and I was quite standoffish. I had that "chip on my shoulder" attitude in elementary and junior high. That was all me. And similarly, if you were standoffish at school and work, that was all you.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would cease feeding others of this forum false information regarding the Truth, the friends, and the workers. All of the "information" you are feeding us is a misinterpretation, that I am guessing is stemmed from someone of the friends "wronging" you some how. And I am greatfully sorry for anything that they may have done to you to cause you to resent what you were raised with. I pray that you find your way back to it.

To Marzman, This statement below is simply not true according to the rank and file of friends and workers especially head workers. Senior workers preach about how people miss meetings and eventally "lose out" which means they will go to hell if they die outside of the meetings.------------------------------------
And most professing people try to never miss meeting. But, it's not to assure that they're going to heaven ... no, it is NOT necessary but it IS nice to have fellowship with God amongst like-faithed and similarly-minded people.
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The truth is way to secretive and hidden. Too many well intentioned professing people who never question the words or motives of the workers! The friends rely too much on workers and meetings.
I have seen some inconsistent policies among the workers or servants of God in my lifetime. Professing people in the US don't celebrate X Mas with trees and lights yet in Australia they do! Professing people drink beer and wine in Europe but not in North America. Some professing girls will wear pants and shorts at picnics if there are no workers present. Some professing people hide televisions from the workers. Professing people in Ireland won't talk after meeting and in Spain, friends are talking right before the meeting begins.

The workers need to address some of the concerns that current members and former members have about "The Truth".

I refuse to believe that only those in the Truth are going to heaven! Truth was started by Irish 2X2 homeless workers in the late 1890s! It is another man made religion and it isn't the "Truth of God"!!

The workers do seek to minimize publicity. Maybe some of it is humility but I think some of it is the inablity to explain their doctrine, only way belief, rules, and secret worker meetings.Workers know that some things they preach doesn't make sense but then they say "we have to have faith and not question things".

I used to feel like an idiot explaining that the "Truth" didn't have a name, headquarters, written doctrine or a building. We met in homes yet 4 days a year, we went to a farm and attended convention.

I don't fault the friends and workers as people. They are some of the finest people on earth-a meek, quiet , humble and serious people for the most part .

It is the SYSTEM that has been elevated above other religions that bothers me. A system that demands conformity, participation, submission to human beings and lofty goals of perfection which are unreasonable.

I have seen senior workers (not all of them ) who were so condescending and aloof. They would stand on the platform and tell the friends how to run their lives. Professing people rely on them for spiritual advice and advice in issues like dress, marriage, friendship, entertainment among other things.

Some professing experiences are better than others. Some fields have nicer friends and workers. There is no consistency in this fellowship with unwritten rules passed down to generations and changed slightly to fit the times. But only wayism, self righteousness, secrecy, favoritism are prominent in any religion on the earth. But every church must never think of itself as the "perfect way".

Marzman...........I'm sorry to bring up a post that's been long-dead, but could you please PM me or email me?

[b:fa56f33a84][Note: There is no PM until after 10 posts have been approved. Please do not post email addresses here.][/b:fa56f33a84]

I don't have much of a response to all you've said, but I do have some things to say...

Conventions on a farm? Jesus was born in a barn, if it was good enough for him, it's sure good enough for us.

Speaking before a meeting, decrorating a tree.........drinking wine during the passing of emblems? Very superficial, and if one was to look at each person particating, one would see something very similar. The spirit of god.

The spirit leads and those who follow may be of different customs and origans, but something very important stays the same............gods word.

Explaining our doctrine? Do you know the meaning of the word "doctrine"? It means "teachings" or "learnings". Gods' servants can't provide pamphlets and booklets when they're asked what our "doctrine" is, because to do so, they would have to turn over a complete bible. How can we be embarassed when someone asks us what our doctrine is? It's very simple. Our doctrine is whatever Jesus taught. What Jesus taught is God's word. There's nothing complicated about it. The world would like to make it complicated, but it's really very, very simple.

As for being "too hidden" of a way.....yes, it's hidden to those who don't believe and it's hidden to those who aren't searching. But this way is open to every one. It's open to every sinner, every person who feels desperate for more than what the world can offer them. It's not hidden to those who have a desire in their hearts to know God.

Minimizing publicity? Jesus never sought to be known of men. Why? Maybe because he knew that man's glory wasn't anything to be proud of. Maybe he wanted to be sought after for what God promised, not for fame.

The servants of God have never stood on a platform and told people how to run their lives. If anyone has felt that way after listening to the gospel, it is because God has pricked their conciences with his living word. God's servants are not perfect and they have never proclaimed to be. Jesus, was human and he was the only human to live a perfect life. Gods' servants know this and they try, like the rest of us, to live as Jesus lived.

If anyone feels, after listening to the gospel, that their lives are lacking in certain ways, it is because God has spoken to them. They are very fortunate for that because God doesn't make sin known to everyone. Just those who are searching.

Why doesn't he make sin known to every person? I can't answer that. I don't have the knowledge. In gospel meeting this week we sang hymn 271. "I know not why god's wondrous grace to me he did impart, nor why, unworthy of such love, he bought me for his own" the third verse reads "I know not how the spirit moves, convincing men of sin, revealing Jesus through the word, creating faith in him".

I'm not sure if you have the same hymns, but the ones I sing in meetings are scriptual. I know God hears them and they're like prayers. It was spoken of in gospel meeting recently....how does a seed know not to start growing when it's sitting on a shelf in a store? how does it know to start growing when its planted in soil and watered? we don't know how God's way works, we only know that it does.

I will never forget that meeting and will never forget Gwen Fibke saying those words. My heart is thankful for that meeting.

My thoughts and prayers are with whomever is reading this tonight.


Cynthia.

Thank you Marzman for what you said about meetings. I am a professing woman. And this is no cult. Seems to me someone has the wrong info.

Does "The Truth" allow that other churches also provide a path to salvation?

How is "The Truth" led? Do you have democratic church government?

Please answer these two questions.