Hi everyone,
I felt like talking about how deep the cult beliefs go and how much damage it does. It seems to take so long to gradually change and the change is just a bit at a time. last year I started to see that it was possible that I was accepted by God/God force (or whatever you choose to call it) even though I wasnt in the group anymore. before that I carried this nagging guilt all the time that I was very bad because I was no longer doing so called 'spiritual' things or serving the group. I felt that I could finally see that God loves me with no conditions. This was a breakthru for me and I just kept repeating it from time to time when I felt guilty and wrong - I would think "God loves me with no conditions" and it started to bring some relief from the guilt and pressure.
Despite this I still felt myself in a subtle way feeling different from other people and kind of withdrawing inside - still following the cult rule of maintaining distance from non group members who were seen as unspiritual. I see now that I have spent too much time isolated and thinking too much. I thought that the practical part of life - work and activities was to be judged as not really what God wanted - far inferior to meditation or prayer or service and I shunned it in my mind. The last couple of months I have been working full time running a project renovating houses. I have just finished this and I have been surprised to find that it was a kind of stablising experience and that it has given relief from all the thinking. Somehow the doing - orgainising, painting etc has been good for me - to my surprise. I guess this is what they call grounding.
I am now challenged to keep active when the cult propensity to sit and space out is still strong in me.
Also I had to deal with some minor disagreements/conflicts in my work with tradespeople and contractors. Here I can see my cult training that any conflict is wrong and I must keep peace at all times. In my group we were never to be different and we were meant to be always peaceful so as not to upset God with our negative vibrations.

It has now occured to me that we actually can not avoid disagreements and conflicts at times with others - that is just how it goes right now in life. I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I just can not make myself perfect/enlightened and maybe that was never the purpose after all. I thought we had to perfect ourselves so that we were always nice always peaceful, perfect in every way. Now I wonder if it is just not possible to perfect the personality - after all we all have different qualities and those qualities have their good and not so good aspects.

It is a huge change to think I am not meant to perfect myself. I have spent so long feeling guilty for not doing it! So it seems this stuff has different levels and layers and now it is a challenge for me to remember that I am actually ok as I am - even with faults and also when I disagree with others. I hope to make this insight a more permanent realisation and that it can overtake the fearful image of God that still hovers in my mind.

I wanted to share this because these struggles are real struggles and it is easy to feel alone when you dont mix with others who struggle in the same way.
To other people I mix with I may seem no different from them, but this is a real battle for me. It is comforting to come to this site and see that there are others who know what I experience.

Love to all,
pegasus

HI Pegasus,
As always I love to read your posts. This one really reminds me of my own struggles. I also spent many years judging myself by other people's standards and beileving that I had to be at peace with everyone in order to be perfect.
It kind of occured to me one day that if we are in an imperfect world and we just go with the flow in order to maintain peace then we have to be imperfect to be peaceful....it just is impossible.

HI Sallie
Lovely to hear from you again. I tried to send a private message but your mail box was full. I haven't looked at the forum for a few months but would be great to hear your news if you get a chance to send a private message to me again. I hope all is well with you. My theme just at the moment seems to be that I am meant to do what I want and have what I need - quite a simple thought but quite a revelation for me after so long thinking anything I wanted was 'bad' and desires/needs themselves were 'bad'. It was all the wrong way round. I am slowly starting to see that having awareness of myself and just simple things that I want to do is healthy - it feel healthy to be moving away from being lost in my head in the cult self, to just being who I am and allowing that. A very slow process but at least some change is taking place so for that I am grateful.
Best wishes
pegasus

Pegasus,
I didn't know my in box was full. I just cleared it. I love your new theme btw. It's a great way to counter the brainwashing that self deprevation is spiritual....to do what I want and have what I need....I really like that.

One thing about anxiety: it is partly physical and partly cultural. If you hang around people who watch shows like Nancy Grace or America's Most Wanted all the time, they will re-inforce anxiety. If you hang around superstitious people who cannot translate faith in God into a relaxed approach to life, but who instead are always looking for sin or scandal, you will always be worried. Find people and activities that don't promote worry and suspicion. Listen to happy, relaxing music and watch old comedies.

I actually find funny pet videos in youtube to be a good way to relax. I am embarrassed to admit this, but it is true. I even have made a few with my own budgies, who are actually my pet-therapy for anxiety. They are full of crazy antics and they are not hard to take care of because they keep each other company and they like to fly around the house when they are not in their cage on the patio.

If you do some vigorous exercise, you will release a lot of the pent-up physical tension that can make you feel anxious and you will also sleep better. If you are anxious over physical safety, then working out will help your self-confidence, even if you have to do it in a limited way because of a handicap or other health issue.

Hi guys,
Sallie I agree- that idea that self deprivation is spiritual is one of the key ideas that get transmitted to us in cults it seems. And then when you leave the group, you can easily continue to live by that belief unconsiously - you don't realise you are doing it. We can feel very uncomfortable doing the things that we personally enjoy and need for a healthy life when we have thought for so long that we must ignore our own needs. We are taught to confuse our genuine needs and think they are somehow wrong. This can be called being 'worldly' 'unspiritual' or 'going against God' all sorts of phrases that don't really make sense in reality.

dsm, I like your ideas about pet videos - I might look some up. I also find that relaxing really helps and usually leads to a better frame of mind. Just simple things - watching tv or taking a bath or just having a rest is all good.

As I mentioned, 'Im meant to do what I want now' is my current kind of mantra. Just to undo all the years of repeating thoughts that amounted to the same thing - that I am very bad if I do anything I want. Its important to get rid of those self destructive thoughts,

Cheers
pegasus

I agree that the experience of being in a cult can be emotionally damaging. The guilt one feels from getting others to join can be overwhelming. The feeling of being fooled into spending years of your life to work for someone for no pay is damaging. Many groups are emotionally abusive to break the person down to weaken them to join the cult and believe in the cult system. In some groups, members work long hours with little rest and no health care for the leader, who is followed unquestioningly. These experiences can be very damaging.

They certainly can be very damaging for sure. One aspect of this is the way our trust is abused when we are fed lies in the cult and manipulated to serve the purposes of the cult. It can be a shock when our close friends or family are no longer dependable when we leave the group and they dont. We all need to have some people we can really trust and feel close to. I think when that trust is so severely broken to the point where they don't talk to us or try to understand us it is a terrible shock. Of course it is the manipulation of the cult that puts this in place. But still we are the ones that feel the effects and live with that break of trust into the future. It can be hard to learn to trust new people again and to feel worthy of new close relationships.
I have found small differences of opinion can be a trigger for me that bring back old feelings of fear of rejection and that sort of thing.

I think the biggest problem is how they try and break your ego or your self that you had before you went there.

They really go to town with this with their exercises. I mean this is not just some trivial mind idea that you have of yourself but the whole way that the mind and the psyche works to hold together your "I" and the ego.

That's why a lot of people end up in that trance like zoned-out dissociative state. I have been in that state for many years.

That has been the biggest obstacle to living any kind of normal life again. I mean sure I could live as this de-personalsed floating blob that has no feelings, but it's no fun especially when you had a regular self before that like everyone else.

I would be interested to hear about people's experiences in recovering their identity internally.

Hi Billy
I was interested to read your message as I feel like I know what you are talking about. I too have taken a long time to find any sense of myself rather than the cult self that I had become. I joined at age 18 as well so I had not formed my own adult identity so knowing who I was apart from the person I thought I had to be from the cult has been almost impossible it seems at times. It would be good to hear more of your story if you feel like sharing it, or private message me if you like.

I remember just sitting a lot of the time, unaware of time and in that lost state when I left the group. I did not know what to do as all I knew was how to be a group member. Time seemed hard to keep track of as I just sat there numb - which I now know is dissociated.

I learned a lot from studying counselling and therapy - some simple things like learning to work out what I was feeling and thinking have helped to find who I am. I never even knew what I felt or what I thought at first. Also I would focus most of the time outside of myself - what do others say and think and what should I do which I had unconsciously learned from being a good cult member. Cults discourage you forming your own opinions or experiences. I had to practice asking myself- what do I think about this, what is my opinion. What do I need and feel? I had to start to act from my own self not from outside myself. It took a long time to even feel the permission to have my own needs and desires because of the cult dogma.

I spent loads of time working out what my thoughts were saying and my underlying beliefs from the cult that now were stuck with me. I believed things such as - I must follow the group practices and if I dont terrible things will happen to me and I will be a terrible person. I wrote them down and tried hard to see if they were true or not and to find out what was the truth. This was important because of the tremendous fear the cult had instilled in me. By thinking this way I was paralysed with fear so much of the time and not even aware of it. How could I live well when I was terrorised?

Prior to joining the cult I did well at most things and was pretty normal. After the cult I was always afraid and guilty. I believe this constant fear of doing and being wrong led my mind to dissociate - to separate and numb from the pain as a safety mechanism. So I had to really see what was going on and challenge it. Thats a few things from my experience,
what have you found so far that has helped you?
sending you lots of good wishes for your journey
Pegsus