Leslie Van Houten is a convicted murderer. She has spent 30 years in prison for her role in the Manson Family murders. She says she has recovered and been rehabilitated from her cult mindset and deserves parole. What do you think? Should she be given some consideration as a cult victim of Charles Manson who was brainwashed? Or, should see spend the rest of her life in prison due to the horrific nature of her crimes? Where should the line be drawn when dealing with cult criminals? When should their recovery be a factor in parole?

I think that she should be given a chance. The world as a whole doesn't know the power of mind control. I don't remember if Leslie actually stabbed or murdered. That would influence my reply perhaps.

However, 30 years is a long time. I would like to know what she has actually done to deprogram and rehabilitate. However, I truly believe in the power of mind control and would probably give her a chance. mavin

I was young at the time of the Manson murders, but I have read a couple books about them. The way I remember it, Leslie Van Houten (was she Sadie May Glutz?) was put in prison for MURDER and consipracy to commit murder, and other crimes.

As far as I know, being in a cult, and under the influence of Charles Manson, wasn't illegal. It was what they DID while under his control that was wrong.

So, to me, it is really very clear. I am glad she has "recovered" from her cult involvement. Way to go Leslie.

When she recovers from murder, then she can get out of prison. That means her victims will have to come back to life, and all of the pain must be somehow erased from all of the people connected to the murders, etc.

Until this happens, she should remain in prison. The fact that she has recovered from her cultism is great. However, she needs to take the next step, and recover from committing murder.

Remember the "twinkie" defense? What if the guy can prove he hasn't had junk food in twenty years. Should he be let out? (I'm sure there are people who think so.)

What is wrong with me? Why does this seem like such a no-brainer? Honestly, why any debate at all about this?

Brent

Hi All,
I was old enough to remember the whole sordid Manson affair and agree with Brent re. her being let out of prison. There are many excuses that could be given re. murderers such as socio-economic deprivation, abusive parents, drug abuse, etc.
These above problems should be addressed by society, but not by excusing the behavior. Mind control power in cults is very real and it is important to understand how it works, but to put it in the category of an insanity defense would be dangerous for society at large.
We have to take responsibility for our part in our former groups and can be better people for doing so. There are different reasons why individuals are controlled in these groups and there is not a pat answer to each cultist's entrapment. For some it's pride or power and for other's it is a great need of acceptance by the group. Probably, for most it is a mix of both of these.
I think we do a great service here by warning others re. the ways and dangers of these groups. God Bless, Mark

Hi, I too remember the affair. I also read the book. I just do not remember what each individual person did. If she actually knifed or participated in the act of killing, I would have a really hard time to let her out.

Recovery from mind control takes a lot of work. I have a hard time believing that people can be made to just cut other people up as in the Manson crimes without the person having some kind of inner conscience and morality, without realizing what to some extent what they are doing is wrong. Therefore, depending upon her involvement would depend on if I would let her out. I think I remember some of them did not actually participate in the murders, but had some idea of what was going on. It is a long time ago.

Mavin

I think that she took just as much part in the murders as Manson did and she get the same punishment. She should quit blaming the murders she took part in on brainwashing and start taking responsibility for her actions.

Hi Bobbie Jo et el:

When someone is "brainwashed" or hypnotized etc. I do not think that internal morality is totally changed, however the mind is a complex thing. Brainwashing or mind control or hypnosis is not a total excuse for murder, however, it can be a very important factor. People do many things that they would not ordinarily do if not under those powers. Therefore, while not a total excuse, it is a factor. Depending upon the extent of her direct involvement ie: actually sticking in the knives or sitting in the get away car, we should consider parole.

Talking about planning etc. are abstract things and easily done under mind control and hypnosis, but actually carrying out the deeds of knifing and killing should enter the mind and kick in the internal morality of the entity even if under hypnosis or mind control.

That is why I said it depends upon what her actual status in the killings was.

People under hypnosis and mind control are compromised, however I honestly believe that even compromised facing horrendous things like murder would shock most into their pre-compromised minds. So I can see someone planning and getting into the conspiracy mode, but killing mode is something hard for me to comprehend.

Having been the victim of mind control, and hypnosis without my informed consent, control or awareness I speak very personally on this issue. While I believed erroneously many things, and did many stupid things, I know that murder would have not been something the group could have made me do. I made some counter to the group decisions as it was, where to follow the group would have been detrimental to my family. That is what I base my thinking upon. I followed extreme doctrines until I saw it hurting others and realized that could not be a good thing. That is the bottom line basis to what I said in the first place. There is an extreme difference to the abstract planning of something and talking and conspiring about something compared to the concrete actually carrying out of the deed. Between that reality should creep into the psychie.

Mavin

Sounds similar to Patrica Hearst's situation although more severe. Also, I woudn't trust anyone who did anything this radical.
In Japan, there was someone who killed, cut up and ate parts of his girlfriend. He wound up in a mental institution not on the electric chair.

I attended Leslie's third trial--her lawyer was murdered during the original trial. Then she was retried--and the jury deadlocked. So, she was out for a year. By the time I saw her, she was back to being the "homecoming queen" who just wouldn't have done this had it not been for Manson. The problem here is that Leslie was the least brainwashed of the 3 females--she and Manson did not really like each other. She came with her boyfriend, who was a murderer. She was the sanest. She said on the stand, "I weighed the pros and cons. . . ." That is why she didn't get released in 1978.

On the other hand, she did not actually kill anyone. Mrs. LaBiancha was already dead when she stabbed her. She said she felt like a shark, for whatever that's worth. So the thing is that the cult aspect fits her least, but she did the least. I am not personally in favor of anyone committing murder and getting out of prison; but in California people are really caught and convicted, much less sentenced for this long. So should justice be relative or absolute?

Hmmm very interesting worrywart! I do not think that I could "weigh the pros and cons" or stick someone after they were murdered. Could anyone on this discussion? No.

She sounds like a kook at best and a ?? at worst.

I would have to study her case. I guess if one thinks of her living next door near you or someone you love, it can put it in a different perspective.

And what is "justice"? Do we know? Could she have stopped the murders? She still "stuck them when they were dead". Most rational normal people could not do that. I would not sleep well if she lived next door. I think she might be better off sleeping behind closed and locked doors of prison.

I didn't follow the Manson thing as closely as you did. I read the book and watched the tv but never got near the trial. You are more in a position to know answers than the rest of us, me thinks. Mavin