[forum.culteducation.com]

Written on an earlier page of the SGI discussion

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January 04, 2009 11:17PMRangdrol
Date Added: 11/25/2008
Posts: 25 Re: Former SGI membersIsabella,

Hi, I think it's important to remember that Buddhist philosophy is very real, and very powerful. In my opinion, there is no philosophy like Buddhism, and all the amazing things the Buddha taught are now being embraced, and proven! by scientists from many fields.

The fact is that NSA and SGI really are not practicing the Buddhism of the Buddha, and so if you want, you can find out about Zen, or Tibetan Buddhism by going to a FREE meditation session, etc., and I assure you, no one there will call you, force you to become a member, etc. In fact, quite the opposite! The Buddha never believed his philosophy should be sold, door to door. I am not a scholar in any way, but I have carefully examined many aspects of Buddhist philosophy and I wish some great Buddhist teacher out there confronted SGI and their ideas of what Buddhism is...Bon Chance! Remember, Buddhism is FREE! FREE! FREE! Even HH Dalai Lama said we should take at least!! 10 years before selecting a teacher! Tell that the the Nichiren Shoshu people! :0

There is a thread discussing Tibetan Lamas who misbehave. So..if anyone wants to leave SGI and practice Buddha Dharma, be careful.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Even with a good teacher, Tibetan Buddhism is all mixed up with Bon shamanism and Shiva tantric practices that originated with Hinduism and were incorporated into Vajrayana.

It is as hierarchical as anything Ikeda created--just with better PR. One still practices magical thinking and does a lot of chanting, bowing and scraping.

The practice accessories and fancy buildings with gilded accessories cost money and the funds sent to India and and elsewhere to support lamas and rinpoches are hard to trace.

So in the long run, Vajrayana is not free. What Buddha taught is free. What those claiming Buddhas's name teach is expensive. And the farther away it is from Buddhas teachings, the more expensive it is. Thats my rule of thumb. Not a binding opinion.

Corboy

I was really grateful to find this forum – thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences (“experience” being used in a normal-human-being-non-SGI-way).

I’ve been practicing with SGI for seven years now, diligently chanting (well, trying to be diligent), actively participating in meetings and activities, and now in the position of group leader and subscription coordinator. I’ve held any number of meetings in my apartment and been happily typing and distributing the monthly meeting schedule. Although not much has changed in terms of my karma, I’ve been a lot less miserable about things. Until recently.

While I haven’t always agreed with the higher-level leadership, by and large I’ve kept my mouth shut about it. Lately, though, they’ve made some decisions that I’ve been critical of; I’ve kept those criticisms non-public (i.e., I haven’t shared my comments with anyone other than those I’ve been critical of and my district leader, after the women’s general chapter leader called me and semi-chewed me out).

I now find that meetings are no longer being scheduled at my place and am no permitted to do the schedule. I was given some lame excuses about it, but it’s pretty plain that I’m being “punished” by being deprived of the opportunity to gain “benefits.” I’m w-a-a-a-y more than five years old, so that seemed really inappropriate, particularly because I wasn’t given the real reasons for being grounded.

This gave me great pause. One of the reasons I was attracted to SGI in the first place was the absence of clergy and the belief that members came first. My dispute with the leaders was about the treatment that a couple of district members were receiving, so that blew a hole in the members-came-first theory. These were people that weren’t attending meetings but still needed the support of people that they actually believed were friends. That two of the higher-ups came down on me (in the usual, waffle-y way) took the wind out of the sails of the no-clergy idea – obviously they weren’t robe-wearing priests or nuns, but they came off with the same level of authoritarianism. Both of these circumstances are making me take a harder look at my involvement with SGI.

I apologize for the length of this, but I find that I’m really kind of frightened to turn in my Gohonzon and completely leave the practice. I don’t think that SGI-ninjas are going to show up at my door (I’m pretty good at ignoring people that I don’t want to deal with), but I can’t pinpoint what it is exactly that I’m afraid of. There’s a feeling in the pit of my stomach that something really bad will happen to me; I know that’s the result of superstitious crap, but it’s there nonetheless. The loss of the few friends I have, who are all SGI-members, is a concern as well.

This is something I would normally sit down and chant about, or seek guidance from a leader. Hah! Instead, I will be carefully storing my Gohonzon and cleaning off what has served as my altar. Going taitan is a big step, and I’m not quite ready to listen to people telling me how horrible my life is going to be . . . truly, I think I’ve learned a lot about compassion through this experience, so I don’t feel like this has been a complete waste. No anger (at this point), just very deep disappointment that I bought a larger bill of goods.

I'm kind of amazed at what a lonely decision this seems to be.

Hi Meh!

Thanks for sharing your "experience" as a normal human being... English is not my first language and I am not so good as other people on this forum to give good informations, which was very helpful for me when I decided to quit SGI. But, I can share with you my own "experience" in a non SGI way.
I quit chanting one year ago, after 8 years of daily daimoku, meetings and following my Big goals... (they never really showed up while I was chanting by the way).
After one year, my life changed, I was very scared to stop, because I was brainwashed, even if I thought I had a critical mind regarding the practice, I was trapped and I never thought I was until I quit for good.
All this speech around this buddhism is pure crap...
I can tell you in one year, I started sport again, not fighting with my husband (we live in the same world now), I built my one company and it is working. I feel free!! It is so good!
You are so right, it is a lonely decision to quit because, in SGI, they say the quiter are the "loosers", not in this term of course. But it was complicated to discuss this choice with someone out of SGI who knew about it. This forum was a huge help for me.

Inside SGI it is very complicated to have good advice if you have doubt because one "wonderful person with a lot of experience" will "encourage" you to chant of course, which will brainwash you a little bit more. Now I am out, I do not need "encouragement" because life is NOT a struggle!! Sometimes, I have bad moments of course but it is ok.
And the frustration of not living my big dreams while I was chanting and "transforming" my karma disappear, I still have dreams but not these obsessions I had every days in front of the Gohonzon.

I hope you will find your decision and trust your feeling.
If you need to exchange, if you need to talk, do not hesitate to contact me.

Take care,
L.

Thank you so much, Luz - I'm still in a state of being brain-washed, but it's good to know that it will pass. Like you, I like to believe that I have a skeptical mind, but I think that when we are in positions of vulnerability false hope may over-ride that skepticism. I put my gohonzon and butsudan away this morning and cleared my altar - I feel like I've cast off a bit of a burden. And even though I didn't chant, there were no lightning bolts from the sky. Congratulations on your amazing progress! It must feel great to know that your own hard work has accomplished so much in such a brief period!

meh, you sacrifice freedom when you are in the SGI---the freedom of your own mind and your own gut feelings. Your friends in the SGI will probably no longer be around, since your relationships tend to be "super-special" in the SGI and then if and when ya gotta hit the highway away from the SGI, they will fall by the wayside, too. Because these relationships are SGI-based. (You sound like a really nice person who should make and have really great friends).

I've lost all contact with people in the SGI since I stopped and so much of that is due to the fact that when they saw I was no longer on board, there was no reason to stay in touch. Hence, so much for deep, long-lasting friendships.

Yes, no lightning bolts will materialize out of the sky to slam you into the hell of incessant suffering! In fact, SGI die-hards have more lightning bolts than anyone I've ever seen. You know, the karma-busting thing.

It's the SGI way or the Highway. Check out the SGI thread for tons of support and sharing!

Hang in there, meh! Life does indeed go on and thrive after SGI.

Thanks, Shavoy! I'm feeling better and better about my decision, as if I've cast off a burden. It's going to be weird not having nmrk going through my head during idle moments, but I'm sure I'll find something else to fill some of the empty space.

(Bit of a long response, but I hope it is OK . . . .)


Meh,
Greetings, welcome, and I'm glad you are here. Most of all, I'm glad you have found the courage to take the first step in getting away from the Gakkai Cult Org..

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meh
I now find that meetings are no longer being scheduled at my place and am no permitted to do the schedule. I was given some lame excuses about it, but it’s pretty plain that I’m being “punished” by being deprived of the opportunity to gain “benefits.” I’m w-a-a-a-y more than five years old, so that seemed really inappropriate, particularly because I wasn’t given the real reasons for being grounded.

This is typical N$A-$GI cult modus operandi manipulation. They basically did the same kind of thing to me, when as a teenager, I handed back my pretty high up "YOUTH!" "leader" position and started resisting their constant pressures and arm twisting to do more and more. Why did I resist? Because, pretty much like you, I didn't like what I was seeing, the way they treated people and the authoritarianism of many of the so-called "leaders" / higher-ups. You are being punished, simply for not towing the line and becoming an unthinking, unquestioning Ikeda-bot (although during my time in, it was more of an expectation to do cult org. "activities" until you became a glazed-eyed-gakkai-somnambulist zombie).

Once a happy (for me) balance was reached, and they saw that it didn't effect me, they then tried to start excluding me from all "YOUTH!" activities. Much to their surprise, this didn't effect me either. I happily took it as a symbolic head nod to cut all the ropes and began to slowly fade away. After a while, it was them (the egotistical, gakkai "leaders"), who came knocking back on my door (home visits), ringing me up on the telephone ("How ya doin'?, "We have an activity coming up . . . . ") and sending me unsolicited letters / post-cards acting like they were my long lost "friends."

My advice = resist. They will (try) to be back, until it becomes crystal clear that you are gone for good (which is all up to your own psychological will power and self control to not give in to their manipulation and fake mystical threats of damnation).

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meh
This gave me great pause. One of the reasons I was attracted to SGI in the first place was the absence of clergy and the belief that members came first. My dispute with the leaders was about the treatment that a couple of district members were receiving, so that blew a hole in the members-came-first theory. These were people that weren’t attending meetings but still needed the support of people that they actually believed were friends. That two of the higher-ups came down on me (in the usual, waffle-y way) took the wind out of the sails of the no-clergy idea – obviously they weren’t robe-wearing priests or nuns, but they came off with the same level of authoritarianism. Both of these circumstances are making me take a harder look at my involvement with SGI.

Gakkai Cult Org. "leaders" *ARE* the equivalent of the clergy. In fact, that's why they hated the priesthood so much, because they were the only group of people that they couldn't (doesn't mean they didn't try) manipulate. (Kind of reminds me of the old saying, "It takes one, to know one." In this case, a con-man can clearly see and recognize another con-man.)

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meh
. . . . I find that I’m really kind of frightened to turn in my Gohonzon and completely leave the practice.

. . . . but I can’t pinpoint what it is exactly that I’m afraid of. There’s a feeling in the pit of my stomach that something really bad will happen to me; I know that’s the result of superstitious crap, but it’s there nonetheless.

This is pure cult org. fallacious appeal to adverse consequences, to keep you shackled to their psychological threats. [en.wikipedia.org]

Time will show you that it is all nonsense. Just be strong and brave.

Also, if you wish, have a look on e-bay. You'll find people getting rid of their cult org. paraphernalia all the time. A quick glance even now, if you go and enter "AUTHENTIC VINTAGE BUTSUDAN COMPLETE- GOHONZON & PRAYER BOOKS- NICHIREN BUDDHISM" into the search box there, will turn up an interesting find. Hardcore brainwashed gakkai cult members will be shocked into superstitious fear by just looking at it and become outraged (a sure sign of intense thought reform).

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meh
This is something I would normally sit down and chant about, or seek guidance from a leader. Hah! Instead, I will be carefully storing my Gohonzon and cleaning off what has served as my altar. Going taitan is a big step, and I’m not quite ready to listen to people telling me how horrible my life is going to be . . .

Not having the reflex reaction to go "seek guidance" is a definite sign that you are on the right track and strongly so.

"Taiten" is a meaningless, invented, manipulatively "loaded" cult org. psychological threat label that has just been programmed into your mind.

The gakkai cult is chalk full of doublespeak and this is yet another example.

The *real* meaning of "Taiten" = escaping from the cult and saving yourself. (The exact opposite of what they have told you. Always keep this in mind.)

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meh
I'm kind of amazed at what a lonely decision this seems to be.

It's only lonely and scary in the beginning. Time eventually fixes all of that, if you stay true to your initial convictions. All of us here are a testament to that.

Good luck, best wishes and stay strong.


- Hitch

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Shavoy
. . . . SGI die-hards have more lightning bolts than anyone I've ever seen.

It's the SGI way or the Highway.

Boy, oh boy, Shavoy (rhyme unintended), you have definitely got that RIGHT!!

My time with the gakkai cult org. was one of being surrounded by manipulative control freaks (especially the "leaders"), who thought they knew everything, what was best for you, and had all the answers to save the entire world (while their own lives and family situations were a wreck and in some cases circling the drain).

Getting away from all of that was like getting away from an abusive, harmful, parasitic relationship that was unknowingly making you sick the whole time, while you wishfully thought until you convinced yourself the exact opposite. (Wishful thinking is at the heart of how the entire gakkai cult org. functions.)

****

Trust me (and all of us here), . . . . . take the highway, folks, as soon as you see that next "EXIT" ramp. Do it. Do it for yourself, for your loved ones, your family (future generations, too), and your own sanity.

The $oka Gakkai is a pseudo-buddhist CULT of a rich Japanese con-man, who has beaten Nichiren Shoshu at its own game.


- Hitch

Once again, I'm appreciative of the support on this site. The experiences I've been reading so closely parallel my own! I emailed the members of my district last evening to let them know that I was leaving the organization, in part out of common courtesy and in part to avoid solicitous phone calls asking why I'm no longer attending meetings. And there was just something inside me that needed to tell them I was done.

The disagreements with the leaders that led to my "punishment" were very disturbing to me. We had a ywd leader who had notified us that she was going on a hiatus and asked not to be contacted about anything sgi-related; she was going through some difficult personal issues, including a separation from her mentally-unbalanced husband who was stalking her and threatening her life. Without going into any of the grisly details, the wd district leader sent out an email reiterating her request. I've never been a pushy member (I hope, since I always found that obnoxious); I felt very protective of her and encouraged everyone to respect her wishes. I was told by one of the other members that the md district leader kept calling her (inappropriate anyway), which really ticked me off. At about the same time, one of the wd members who had recently lost her husband in a tragic auto accident asked to have a toso at her house - since I was responsible for getting the schedule out - and we'd never turned down anyone's request for a toso before - I went ahead and added it to the schedule. It did happen to be on the same afternoon of our morning discussion meeting, but was really a non-issue as far as I was concerned; members, of course, would decide to go to one, the other or both. She was relatively new to the practice, had been holding well-received weekly tosos for a couple of months after her husband passed away, and there had never been any concerns at that time.

I quickly received an email from the md district leader saying that "the leaders really needed to decide" whether she could have a toso; that angered me. As I wrote in my original post, one of the reason I joined sgi was because of its self-proclaimed members-first policy, and this was a woman deeply in need of support. She'd reached out to the group and, as a simple human being, I automatically figured everybody else would be on-board with it. I responded to the md leader with a polite but firmly-worded email reminding him of how we're supposed to support the members and quoting ikeda about the organization existing for the members, not the other way around.

Let me say at this point that while I was only at a group-leader level, for some reason I seemed to have some influence within the district - other members would contact me for guidance, clarification and support. During the seven years I was in sgi, I probably never missed more than one or two meetings a year; I moved several times during that period and upon arrival in my new home the first thing I did was to reach out to my local district and get connected. Other than disagreeing with leadership on a few things and disliking the whole soka spirit thing, I was a good little zombie.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I was told by one of the co-district leaders (wd) that the men's leader had included the originally-mentioned ywd member on an email about an upcoming meeting. This particular co-leader's English isn't really great; I decided to send out a reminder not to include the young woman on sgi-mailings, and this same co-leader called me later and thanked me for doing so.

Anyway, I received no response from the md leader but a few days later the general chapter wd leader contacted me. I could hear in her voice that every single sphincter muscle in her body was tightly clenched. She implied (nothing is ever direct, and gentle words are always used) that I should keep my pie-hole shut, because other members might feel that there was disharmony in the group. Horrors. This was about a 30-minute long conversation in which she also implied that the widow who had requested a toso hadn't been attending district or study meetings (apparently she should be dumping her traumatized children at the curb for the sake of sgi), so she probably shouldn't be asking to have tosos. I was also chewed out for sending out unauthorized emails. This defied logic for me, and the start of my separation from the group.

I was very upset about this conversation and (naturally) sought guidance from one of my co-district leaders whom I really respected. Initially, she was somewhat outraged on my behalf, told me that I had done the right things and should keep doing them. I was a little more than stunned when she called me a week and a half later to tell me that there had been a leaders' meeting and that I was no longer doing the schedule or having a planning meeting at my place for the month of June (they've been held here for more than a year). The reasoning behind both were clearly rubbish, and I could hear the discomfort in her voice. It was at that point I realized that I had no place in an organization that encouraged this kind of dishonesty and discouraged supporting someone in need or protecting someone. I'm not good at being told what to do, and I'm especially not good at being lied to.

After a lot of thought (and of course chanting), I came to the conclusion that I needed to leave this group. As I wrote above, I emailed the group yesterday evening to let them know; part of that email was a specific statement that I would be happy to engage with them socially (yeah, I know - there's little if any socialization outside of the group, but I genuinely like some of those people) but would not discuss anything sgi-related. Within a couple of hours, the co-leader that I'd sought guidance from called me; fortunately, I have caller-ID, so I could duck the call, but her message made me laugh in an omg-what-don't-you-get-about-no-sgi-stuff kind of way - "I know you don't want to talk right now, but please give me a call when you have a chance." Not a chance, honey.

Thanks to you guys and all of the postings I'm reading here, I really feel like I'm pretty well-prepared for the upcoming phone calls, home-visits and probable mailings. The safest thing for me is to just ignore them all . . . there's no reasoning with zombies when they are hungry for your brain.

I'll continue to practice Buddhism, because I have full faith in the teachings, but will certainly be a lot more careful about who I practice with. Who knew that something so pure could contain such minefields?