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It said the suggestion of DNA testing, while simple, is a practical challenge to conduct.

It added that DNA testing is also invasive and that it is unlikely that any Buddhist temple and their devotees would agree to such a test on what they believe to be the Buddha's tooth.
Apparently they don't take it as seriously as they say they are, so why would any guru do the same?

Ignorance is bliss.

It's not that they don't take it seriously; I think it's that they DO take it seriously! To allow samples to be taken would be permitting desecration of a sacred object, you see. It is far too "special" to be subjected to complete strangers - not even Buddhists necessarily! - *handling* it and even scraping pieces off.

The fact that the growth or whatever it is is considered an integral part - and a MAGICAL part! - of the relic itself and not a separate thing means that they won't permit *any* of it to be sliced off or even swabbed or scraped.

Furthermore, considering that the tooth relic is only displayed every 50 years (or at a high priest's succession ceremony, which is certainly by invitation only), that means that very few people have seen this thing twice. I doubt there are any pictures of the item in question to compare so that we can all see that the "gum tissue" is "growing" over time. All we have is the word of the very parties who stand to profit off this item - see how this works?

It's no different from the medieval mindset of the Catholic Church's various relic cults. Most bizarre is the "incorruptibles", mummified bodies that they keep on display. Creepy. The pious observers make such statements as "her limbs are as flexible as if she were only sleeping" and "her body was in a perfect state of preservation, so that she looked as if she had just closed her eyes for a moment." I'm talking St. Bernadette here. However, the doctors who examined the corpse at its (several) exhumations made such comments as "the limbs are rigid and shriveled" and "the eyes and nose are shrunken" and "the skin is taut and blackened." The exact *opposite* of what "the faithful" said, in other words. Before displaying ol' Bern, the churchies had lifelike masks of wax made to completely cover the only skin that is not swathed in robes - her face and hands. That's right - when you look at St. Bernadette, you're seeing nothing but wax. Because the church officials were afraid that her blackened, shrunken skin would make a negative impression on the public (whom they planned to profit off).

So here at Nichiren Shoshu, we have this "magical" tooth relic that, according to Nichiren Shoshu, is exhibiting increasingly "magical" properties. But we have to take Nichiren Shoshu's word for it. We will not be allowed to see for ourselves, nor will independent observers be allowed in to provide their perspectives and impressions of said object.

*sniff* *sniff* I smells a scam, I does!

TaitenandProud writes about the tooth:

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But we have to take Nichiren Shoshu's word for it. We will not be allowed to see for ourselves, nor will independent observers be allowed in to provide their perspectives and impressions of said object.

To be in that situation is to be treated as children and worse, to accept being treated as children.

While retaining adult earning capacity.

Recent clip (April 2013) from $oka Gakkai Cult Org. Shinanomachi "Cult Town" - A protest drive through all the highlight spots (The Dear Leader's home, Old Gakkai HQ main gate, $eikyo $himbun Propaganda Office, new Gakkai HQ construction area, Shinanomachi Station and surrounding Gakkai Cult associated business, etc.).

[www.youtube.com]

Clip opens with driver, speaking over the loudspeaker, stopping to talk to a $oka-han Cult guard (in front of Ikeda's house), "It's been a while, hasn't it? How are you today? I hope you are doing fine." Then, they drive off announcing "This is the $oka Gakkai CULT area. The $oka Gakkai and Daisaku Ikeda utilize the Japanese Mafia in their dealings. These connections are not explored." (They also go on to name names, repeating the announcement throughout Cult Town.)

More love on display for the Gakkai Cult in the land of Cousin Rufus.

If you look very carefully, along the sides of the road as they drive along, you can spot Gakkai cult org. $oka-han / undercover Ikeda-bots photographing them and reporting them with communication devices. If you blink, you may miss them, but they *are* there. (Come to protest or even innocently explore around cult town, and you will be stalked - guaranteed.)


- Hitch

Quote
Hitch
Recent clip (April 2013) from $oka Gakkai Cult Org. Shinanomachi "Cult Town" - A protest drive through all the highlight spots (The Dear Leader's home, Old Gakkai HQ main gate, $eikyo $himbun Propaganda Office, new Gakkai HQ construction area, Shinanomachi Station and surrounding Gakkai Cult associated business, etc.).

[www.youtube.com]

Clip opens with driver, speaking over the loudspeaker, stopping to talk to a $oka-han Cult guard (in front of Ikeda's house), "It's been a while, hasn't it? How are you today? I hope you are doing fine." Then, they drive off announcing "This is the $oka Gakkai CULT area. The $oka Gakkai and Daisaku Ikeda utilize the Japanese Mafia in their dealings. These connections are not explored." (They also go on to name names, repeating the announcement throughout Cult Town.)

More love on display for the Gakkai Cult in the land of Cousin Rufus.

If you look very carefully, along the sides of the road as they drive along, you can spot Gakkai cult org. $oka-han / undercover Ikeda-bots photographing them and reporting them with communication devices. If you blink, you may miss them, but they *are* there. (Come to protest or even innocently explore around cult town, and you will be stalked - guaranteed.)


- Hitch

Hey Hitch, this clip reminds me of another religious cult - the Mormon Church. If you go anywhere around Salt Lake City's Mormon church with a camera, you will be monitored by close circut cameras, recorded, approached by hired cult thugs, verbally harrassed, and likely ordered to leave the area. Just like the SGcult, they want total control of access to, and public perception of their scuzy cult activities. Moonies, Mormons, and Ikeda-bots - all cut from the same magical bolt of cult cloth.

Also - this clip provides an interesting observation on free speech in our country. Our heroic militarized police would not allow a citizen to drive around in downtown Salt Lake City (or any other major US city) while speaking through a loudspeaker/PA system. Freedom of speech - are you kidding? Nowdays, free speech is only legal in designated zones or by permission only! Dare otherwise and you just may feel the brunt of state repression from boots, clubs, tasers, sound cannons, beanbag bullets, microwave cannons, military grade chemical sprays, rubber bullets, unlawful orders from police, tear gas cannisters to the head, secretive snooping, kettle-ing, IRS audits, renditions, placement on terrorist lists, Predator drone tracking, and/or maybe even a Hellfire missile. What a shining example of how little real freedom mostly sheepish brain-drained warcult-saturated Americans actually have remaining in comparison to most other countries. Thank the stars we still have this online forum where we can express our dissenting opinions without being molested by religious/war cult thugs.

Spartacus



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2013 10:38PM by Spartacus.

It's sad that that's true, Spartacus. *le sigh*

I agree with you, tsukimoto (I'm not sure when you originally posted what I'm reading) - different districts are, well, different. I originally started practicing in the southwest, and they were really laid back. It may have been because I was a newbie, but they were gracious about responding to questions, not defensive in the least and we had some fun, pretty unconventional meetings. I'm not a joiner and, had they been like they are where I am now, I would've run for the hills. As I wound up doing.

I really believe that it's the organization (or very large parts of it) that are flawed, not the Buddhist teachings. Much of what appears in the lotus sutra is a reiteration of teachings in earlier sutras; I investigated a number of other forms of Buddhism before committing to sgi - while I'm certainly no expert, I have a lot more exposure to other teachings than many of the members I've practiced with . . . maybe that's why I find the position that it's the "ultimate" teaching to be a little questionable. I understand that there was one more sutra that was taught after the lotus was expounded, but can't remember the name of it off-hand.

I also agree that there are some things that sgi does not like to talk about. One of the Japanese ladies that I practiced with has been a member for 40+ years, which means that she was practicing when the priesthood was large and in charge. The division between sgi and nsa members was so deep that she and her husband split up over it; they remain friends, but she instructed me that, should I ever meet her husband, not to mention sgi.

Peripheral damage to her - this woman chants so much that it makes my head hurt to think about it; she believes, with every ounce of her being, that anything negative that happens to her is the result of not chanting enough. And despite her years of practice, she feels no sense of protection whatsoever - she's afraid of everything and everyone.

Another thing that sgi doesn't like to talk about is the "arranged" marriages from years back. I don't know if they were wide-spread, but another friend who's practiced since the 60's was in one, which worked out about as well as one might expect. I don't think they go on any more, however.

I look at my own practice over the years, and I'm deeply grateful for so much of what I've learned. I think I'm a better human being, but it's from the practice - not the organization.

I'm just glad that I'm out.

The Lotus Sutra is a Hellenistic work from the first century at the very earliest, probably the second century. That's why it shares an intolerant worldview with Christianity, which also has roots in that same time/place. You're right - there were other sutras taught - I believe the Nirvana sutra is later, but I'd need to check on that.

In the Lotus Sutra, you find the apocalyptic thought common to the Near East and thereabouts from about 2nd Century BCE up on into medieval times. See "Latter Day Of The Law" and "age of kosen rufu" and all the rest of that. Why would the Buddha set out a body of "80,000 teachings" (meaning a whole bunch) so that there would be something that every person could relate to, and then, 500 years later, somehow posthumously "authorize" a "highest teaching" (that designation in itself is non-Buddhist, as it shows attachment and delusion, that one teaching could somehow be arbitrarily and essentially "higher" than others). Compare what you know of the SGI and the Lotus Sutra to these quotes from the Buddha (a couple are paraphrased):

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Winning gives birth to hostility. Losing, one lies down in pain. The calmed lie down with ease, having set winning and losing aside.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

The Lotus Sutra's essence is authoritarian - "This sutra is foremost and the only acceptable one because it says so itself." That is completely contrary to the spirit of Shakyamuni Buddha, who never taught that he had the ONLY way. He just stated that he had *A* way.

Here is a passage on what constitutes a good teaching that I think will be helpful at this point:

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However, ultimately no truth for the Maadhyamika is "absolutely true." All truths are essentially pragmatic in character and eventually have to be abandoned. Whether they are true is based on whether they can make one clinging or non-clinging. Their truth-values are their effectiveness as a means (upaaya) to salvation. The Twofold Truth is like a medicine;it is used to eliminate all extreme views and metaphysical speculations. In order to refute the annihilationist, the Buddha may say that existence is real. And for the sake of rejecting the eternalist, he may claim that existence is unreal.[34] As long as the Buddha's teachings are able to help people to remove attachments, they can be accepted as "truths." After all extremes and attachments are banished from the mind, the so-called truths are no longer needed and hence are not "truths" any more. One should be "empty" of all truths and lean on nothing.

To understand the "empty" nature of all truths one should realize, according to Chi-tsang, that "the refutation of erroneous views is the illumination of right view." The so-called refutation of erroneous views, in a philosophical context, is a declaration that all metaphysical views are erroneous and ought to be rejected. To assert that all theories are erroneous views neither entails nor implies that one has to have any "view". For the Maadhyamikas the refutation of erroneous views and the illumination of right views are not two separate things or acts but the same. A right view is not a view in itself; rather, it is the absence of views. If a right view is held in place of an erroneous one, the right view itself would become one-sided and would require refutation. The point the Maadhyamikas want to accentuate, expressed in contemporary terms, is that one should refute all metaphysical views, and to do so does not require the presentation of another metaphysical view, but simply forgetting or ignoring all metaphysics./b]

Like "emptiness," the words such as "right" and "wrong" or "erroneous" are really empty terms without reference to any definite entities or things. The so-called right view is actually as empty as the wrong view. It is cited as right "only when there is neither affirmation nor negation." If possible, one should not use the term. But

We are forced to use the word 'right' (chiang ming cheng) in order to put an end to wrong. Once wrong has been ended, then neither does right remain. Therefore the mind is attached to nothing.

To obtain ultimate enlightenment, one has to go beyond "right" and "wrong," or "true" and "false," and see the empty nature of all things. To realize this is praj~naa (true wisdom).

It should be noted that to obtain the ultimate liberation from ignorance and delusions one does not have to go through three levels or the infinite stages of the gradual progression; for one can achieve enlightenment instantly. Emptiness is like a medicine: some people may have to take the medicine many times before their diseases are cured, but others may take it just once and be instantly healed. Also no matter how one obtains salvation, he should know that, as with medicine, emptiness is of use to him only so long as he is ill, but not when he is well again. Once one gets enlightenment, emptiness should be discarded. [www.thezensite.com]

The fundamental doctrines of Buddhism - emptiness, impermanence, dependent origination, attachment as the source of suffering, among others - lead us to the inescapable conclusion that, at some point, the practitioner must leave Buddhism behind in order to proceed along his path without attachments to anything. We can think of the Buddha's purpose as teaching people how to think and perceive, so that they are not deluded, because then they will become able to make good decisions and proper choices. At that point, they no longer need the instruction of Buddhism, any more than someone who has graduated from college needs to install himself permanently in a little chair in a 2nd grade classroom.

That first section states that a teaching can only be considered "true" if it enables people to become non-clinging. So that whole "chant no matter what" and "chant until the last moment of your life" etc. etc. demonstrates a false teaching that PROMOTES clinging rather than eradicating it.

And on the subject of arranged marriages, the mass marriages of the Moonies tend to have very low divorce rates, about half the rate of the Baby Boom cohort: [www.religioustolerance.org] Of course, one must wonder where these figures are coming from - if it's from the Moonies themselves (which I suspect it is), then they have every incentive to portray the outcomes far more favorably than they actually are. Kind of like this claim by the Christians:
[qutoe]The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is well known. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8 Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who marry...in the church after having received premarital counseling...and attend church regularly and pray daily together..." experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages -- or 0.00256 percent.[/quote]
^ That's the delusion. The reality is that the most devout Christians have the HIGHEST divorce rates of all - far higher than "liberal" Christians, agnostics, and even athiests!

Thanks, TaitenandProud. From some reading I've done over the past couple of days, most of the mayahana texts do date from that period, having supposedly been compiled from other material at that time. I think that the sutras suffer from the same issues that other religious texts have . . . they've been translated, interpreted, cobbled together and then been thrown into a blender to be reconstructed by people with their own human agendas.

Well May has finally past, has anyone had any contacts from the org? I got a few calls but no one dared ask for money. I think they know better than that. It's all clear until November now.

You're not out of the woods yet, sleepy skunk - the campaign isn't over until 6/3.