It seems the heavenly deities have sent the answere! I got a phone call from a member ( I picked up unaware) and he started the conversation with " I want to quit with the organization too, I've heard you had sent back the Gohonzon....." Isn't that wonderful? I bet they will forbid the members to have contact with me, the bad taiten, and I will have my peace again. Cool, cool, cool.

I was a member of a Christian church (flavor: Baptist) for 12 years that had a very active "benevolence" function, it was called. Members were encouraged to come for help before they got in too deep (one month behind in their mortgage instead of six, for example), people walked in off the street for help and were assisted. These practices were beneficial to the congregation and the community at large.

This church was perhaps unusual because there was no pressure to give, and services ended after 90 minutes like clockwork (two reasons I stayed around for so long). Hitch and I have both stated upthread that we have no use for any religious brainwashing now, because we think for ourselves and will not compromise just to belong to something, as we did with NSA/SGI.

That said, there are sincere, compassionate folks doing good in religious groups I do not subscribe to, but I will not minimize the impact of what they do. I try to be fair. NSA/SGI has no compassion, and does nothing to benefit anybody except for billionaire Ikea and his cronies. Any guiding philosophy a person lives by that lacks compassion is worthless. Somebody's "enlightenment" does nothing to make this world a better place.

As always, YMMV and diversity in thought makes the world go round!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2013 11:53PM by Freeheartandmind.

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corboy

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"I was a kumicho, a unit chief in NSA. On the first day I was appointed, I was given a list of 30 members who had left NSA and told I was to get them back. "Start calling. Don't forget to get their World Tribune subscription money. Don't forget your target.""

"Calls at 7AM Saturday morning: "Where are you? We're doing a 5 hour daimoku toso (chanting session). You have to be here!"

Calls at 11PM: "Tomorrow morning at 8AM you have to bring 40 sandwiches for the Youth Division."

Getting calls as late as 11 pm to bring 40 sandwiches for the Youth Division???

Thats a set up for sleep deprivation. You are up at 11pm or awakened at 11 pm by that phone call.

You are expected to make it to the 8 am Youth Division meeting.

Assuming you fall asleep instantly after that 11 am phone call, you still have to get up early enough to shower, dress, make or buy 40 sandwiches and then transport all that to whereever the Youth meeting is.

If lucky, you get six hours of sleep. And medical evidence has accumulated that 6 hours is not enough sleep for most adults.

And if one cant afford to buy 40 sandwiches (money out of ones own pocket--40 sandwiches are not cheap)--if the kumicho takes it on him or herself to make those 40 sandwiches, that adds to sleep deprivation.

Finally, lets look at the young people. How early did they have to get up to make it to the 8 am meeting? Young people need even more hours of sleep than adults do.

Sleep deprived people are vulnerable.

And...one wonders if there are any reports of SGI people getting into accidents due to sleep deprivation due to these outrageously demanding assignments.

I posted upthread about being in high school and at the community center till all hours of the morning. The community center was clear across town, on the far northwest side if Chicago, and I lived on the far south side. Not one leader ever asked if all these "activities" were hurting my schoolwork, or even if my mother approved. It was like ice water in my face when I realized the so-called "leaders" didn't give a damn about me or my welfare. All they cared about was my free labor. I knew adult members who barely kept their jobs because of daytime sleepiness. Yet, we were supposed to be "victorious" and all that crap. The org uses people up and spits them out unless you wake up and free yourself.

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sixtyseven
Hahaha, I got that sms yesterday at 7 PM: "Today WD toso at my house 8 PM + adress". What the hell do they think ( if they think at all), that I grovel back on my bended knees full of sorrow? Eventually jump into the car in rueful excitement and leave my little children behind or lodge them in their pajamas on the rear seats? Stupid ignorant people. I hope that the anger stops one day. Should I ignore the text or should I reply, what do you think?

I vote for ignoring it..ignoring ignorance is always a good idea!

(snip Taiten and Proud)" It's hard-core capitalism to insist that everyone needs to somehow attend to his own needs, and it's bad for society. There are some people who simply *can't* help themselves. "

I could not agree more.

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corboy
Getting calls as late as 11 pm to bring 40 sandwiches for the Youth Division???

Thats a set up for sleep deprivation. You are up at 11pm or awakened at 11 pm by that phone call.

You are expected to make it to the 8 am Youth Division meeting.

Assuming you fall asleep instantly after that 11 am phone call, you still have to get up early enough to shower, dress, make or buy 40 sandwiches and then transport all that to whereever the Youth meeting is.

If lucky, you get six hours of sleep. And medical evidence has accumulated that 6 hours is not enough sleep for most adults.

And if one cant afford to buy 40 sandwiches (money out of ones own pocket--40 sandwiches are not cheap)--if the kumicho takes it on him or herself to make those 40 sandwiches, that adds to sleep deprivation.

Finally, lets look at the young people. How early did they have to get up to make it to the 8 am meeting? Young people need even more hours of sleep than adults do.

Sleep deprived people are vulnerable.

And...one wonders if there are any reports of SGI people getting into accidents due to sleep deprivation due to these outrageously demanding assignments.

I just wanted to add the fact that I know of no store in this area that is open between the hours of 11pm and 8am. By default you'd have to make them yourself. How nice. If you are giving all your money to the org then you probably couldn't afford the cost of 40 sandwiches, making it pretty much impossible after factoring in the cost of the goods required to make said sandwiches. You'd probably berated for not being able to either make them yourself, or buy them. Which you would then be told to "make the cause".

It sounds to me like they just try to see what people are willing to put with, which is a lot. Even I have had my share of being berated for not having the "determination" and all that garbage. Even if the task was non-org related. And then even if you're sick, tough luck for you. I went along as much as I could tolerate because I felt I did need to learn a bit of self-discipline. After having given it some thought, it wasn't truly self-discipline but merely responding positively towards abuse. It sounds like there should be also an SGI thread under Abusive Relationships after everything people have said so far.

I agree with a lot of what you have said about it looking quite orchestrated.

I don't know if the copying machines get serviced or not. They probably do fix them since they can't do anything but make photocopies (no donations, subscriptions, etc.). Which is cheaper, a new one or repairs? I doubt they could afford to buy a new one with their lack of money and all. :sarcasm:

On a side note, I'm actually kind of surprised I still haven't heard anything after returning the scroll. I would like to believe it is all over with, but it's still wait and see. For those who are curious, I haven't had any issues yet except the odd calls and possible visits. If I do, I'll be sure to post it. I expect to hear from them in their usual campaigns and then when my last subscription runs out. That should be a lot of fun. Everything is still a bit of a blur and random issues are starting to pop up again.

Lastly, I agree with Freeheartandmind, ignore them. What are they going to do if you don't answer the phone? If they show up don't answer. Thankfully, I believe most of us live in a society of law and they just can't barge into your life and if they do there is always a restraining order.

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Freeheartandmind
Hitch and I have both stated upthread that we have no use for any religious brainwashing now, because we think for ourselves and will not compromise just to belong to something, as we did with NSA/SGI.

That said, there are sincere, compassionate folks doing good in religious groups I do not subscribe to, but I will not minimize the impact of what they do. I try to be fair. NSA/SGI has no compassion, and does nothing to benefit anybody except for billionaire Ikea and his cronies. Any guiding philosophy a person lives by that lacks compassion is worthless. Somebody's "enlightenment" does nothing to make this world a better place.

As always, YMMV and diversity in thought makes the world go round!

Bravo! I love your post Freeheartandmind!
The religious discussion is the carrot spiel to keep you busy. And it distracts you from the actual concept of the Cult: the increase of POWER and MONEY.

Ignoring the ignorance. Done. Thank you Freeheartandmind!

After years of Young Lions and Future Division meetings neither of my kids have much interest in the practice these days. Don't know how much being teens has to do with it.

Your kids sound about the same age as mine. They are in what are being referred to as the "Millennial Generation." This generation is particularly interesting because it has the *highest* rates of nonbelief and the *lowest* rates of religious identification and religious group affiliation. And it does not appear to be an age-based (i.e., temporary) difference - they are far less religiously inclined than any previous generation. Many consider themselves quite "spiritual", though - I think that, as this group is highly motivated by social justice issues, they simply see through the bull**** more clearly ("So what have you done for the needy, again?") and are in a society where there is far more diversity (read: options) than previous generations had. Also, public education that does not have a religious component no doubt helps their independence.

If you are interested, I recommend this article on a recent study of this age group: [www.americanprogress.org]

This generation, of which your children and mine are members, gives me enormous hope for and confidence in our future. This is an important generation, and they will create much-needed change in society and government.

When we moved here to the San Diego area from North Carolina (my children were 2 and 4 then), I noticed that there were *no* activities for young children. The only thing really going was teen stuff - the typical YMD and YWD, but also they had something about "X" - can't remember now, something about "Generation X", but it was a cool program where, one Saturday morning a month or something, members with certain knowledge/experience would provide "seminars" - hands-on learning opportunities - for the teens. Classes in gardening, computer programming, music - whatever the adult members wanted to teach (if enough kids signed up for it). I'd read about it in the World Tribune before we moved and thought it sounded like a really great program. Apparently, there was a companion "Y Not?" program, for the younger kids (Generation Y). By the time we got here, they just had the "X" part still going, and then it stopped. So anyhow, nothing for the young children. I immediately volunteered to run a weekly program for the young kids (it's that leadership training *eye roll*). One of my first "achievements" was in getting the local leadership's signoff on reserving the "crying room" - a separate room in the back of the main meeting room, with a large glass window for watching what was going on and the sound piped in so that parents with noisy children can attend the meeting without disrupting it or feeling like they should leave *ahem* - for families with young children for Kosen Rufu Gongyos. First one, I got there early and put up signs in and around that room: RESERVED FOR FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN. Shortly before gongyo started, this old bald man with enormous ears and his middle-aged Japanese female companion came in and sat down. Closed the door to the room, gongyo started. I was using a gongyo book and hadn't brought my juzu beads; in other words, I looked like I could be a brand-new member. I had never seen this old man before.

Midway through gongyo, my son (age 4) took a ball away from my daughter (age 2) - she screamed in outrage. Old Guy turns around and snaps at me, "KEEP THOSE CHILDREN QUIET DURING GONGYO!" I pointed to the sign 2 feet in front of him, at eye level, that read "RESERVED FOR FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN" and then went and explained to a byakuren that perhaps he'd like a seat elsewhere. She came back and quietly offered to escort him and his companion to two nice seats at the front of the main room, but he emphatically shook his head and said "No." Dick! At least he never spoke to me again :P

But what I quickly noticed was that there was no commitment to getting the young SGI children together with other young SGI children. This blew my mind! How could I, as a kids' leader, ever get a performance or whatever together when there were never the same kids there from week to week for practices??? I quit that nonsense after a few months :P

Another interesting piece of research has shown that children overwhelmingly follow their *father*'s religious example, NOT their mother's. The fact that pretty much all the religions today are female-dominated bodes ill for their future survival - when Mom goes to church (or whatever) but Dad doesn't, only 2% of their children will end up regular churchgoers. If you're interested in the study, go here: [www.touchstonemag.com]

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In 1994 the Swiss carried out an extra survey that the researchers for our masters in Europe (I write from England) were happy to record. The question was asked to determine whether a person’s religion carried through to the next generation, and if so, why, or if not, why not. The result is dynamite. There is one critical factor. It is overwhelming, and it is this: It is the religious practice of the father of the family that, above all, determines the future attendance at or absence from church of the children.

If both father and mother attend regularly, 33 percent of their children will end up as regular churchgoers, and 41 percent will end up attending irregularly. Only a quarter of their children will end up not practicing at all. If the father is irregular and mother regular, only 3 percent of the children will subsequently become regulars themselves, while a further 59 percent will become irregulars. Thirty-eight percent will be lost.

If the father is non-practicing and mother regular, only 2 percent of children will become regular worshippers, and 37 percent will attend irregularly. Over 60 percent of their children will be lost completely to the church.

Let us look at the figures the other way round. What happens if the father is regular but the mother irregular or non-practicing? Extraordinarily, the percentage of children becoming regular goes up from 33 percent to 38 percent with the irregular mother and to 44 percent with the non-practicing, as if loyalty to father’s commitment grows in proportion to mother’s laxity, indifference, or hostility.

I often brought up with leaders, from HQ on up to national, the fact that my young children were not welcome at meetings, and that I was frequently scolded for being there when they were behaving age-appropriately. The parents whose small children sat still as statues were congratulated and praised, though sitting still like statues is not good for children and not a characteristic of healthy children. I remember going to this one fat old woman's house - she was a Chapter leader - and my children were running in a hallway elsewhere in the house from where the meeting, a gosho study, was going on. Afterward, she scolded me for bringing my children. When I ratted her out to higher-ups, I was told that they really appreciated the way she extended herself to offer her own house as a meeting place. The End. In the first district we were assigned to, the old fogeys in charge likewise scolded me about my children (the youngest person in their district was late 30s). Again, when I brought this unwelcoming, lacking-compassion-and-empathy treatment to higher ups, I was informed about how much the organization appreciated district leaders like them who went out of their way to hold the all-important district meetings in their home. I got nuthin', in other words. Left to twist in the wind and be unwelcome!

With regard to that gosho study, that week, I'd changed to a district where the district leaders actually had children close in age to my own children, so there was suddenly no problem with children being children while a meeting was going on! What I didn't realize, having moved from a smaller area, is that there were different gosho studies that week, for the different chapters. At my former HQ, there had been a single gosho study each month. And in going to Old Fatty's house, I had gone to the gosho study of the chapter I had left (transferred out of), the old farts' district's chapter. I SHOULD have been going to that OTHER chapter's gosho study, you see, which was further reason to not restrain herself from saying mean things to me, as I'd already demonstrated my "disloyalty" to *HER* chapter. After I switched to the more-child-friendly district, whenever I would see the first district leaders at various activities, they would walk right past me without a word, never even saying "Hi." Even though I had been to several of their district meetings - they KNEW who I was, in other words. And blatantly *ignored* me. Such *nice* people. Such VALUABLE leaders for kosen-rufu!!

How any organization figures it can be mean, nasty, and unfriendly to small children (and their parents) and still grow is beyond me *eye roll*



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 04:15AM by TaitenAndProud.

One delusion my membership in the SGI helped me overcome was the idea that there can be a belief system/philosophy/religion that is so inherently *good* that everyone who practices it will demonstrate improved behavior.

For example, a teaching can be all about love and compassion and fluffy bunnies, but if its devotees show a high rate of violence and seem driven to harm others, we can conclude that this is a *bad* teaching.

Conversely, if you have a teaching that is all about sadistic gore and mutilation, but its devotees are uniformly peaceable and kind, you have to conclude that this is a *good* teaching. It is the effect that shows the truth, in other words.

Ha ha ha, right? Well, I actually *BELIEVED* that! The Buddhist principles of cause and effect in particular motivated me to become much more *mindful* about my own behavior (in thought, word, and deed). And the chanting *did* calm what other Buddhist sects describe as "the chattering monkey mind" and helped me sleep better - no more waking up in the middle of the night, stewing about work! Plus, the fact that Buddhism has the most peaceful history of any of the major religions - by FAR - was immensely appealing to me.

That "effect" part is dead on, I still believe, and it demonstrates that no teaching has any demonstrable positive effect on human behavior. The good people will remain good or even become better, but they would do that regardless of which belief system they were involved in (or none); the jerks will still be jerks or even become more jerkish, taking advantage of the power opportunities to inflict their jerkiness on ever more hapless victims.

I still believe that Buddhism - REAL Buddhism - is the best of the lot, as it is the only one that incorporates, to at least *some* degree, the idea that human happiness and fulfillment are valid priorities (and not just being submissive and obedient to authority and following *lots* of rules). REAL Buddhism incorporates some of the earliest psychology, attempting to address human needs rather than just serve the hierarchy.

There have been studies that showed that Buddhist meditation brings significant, measurable cognitive benefits (see links below), so I don't think it makes a bit of difference what words you use if you choose a chanting meditation.

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"One thing that meditation does for those who practise it a lot is that it cultivates attentional skills," Dr Josipovic says, adding that those harnessed skills can help lead to a more tranquil and happier way of being.

"Meditation research, particularly in the last 10 years or so, has shown to be very promising because it points to an ability of the brain to change and optimise in a way we didn't know previously was possible." [www.bbc.co.uk]

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In a study published online April 21 in the journal Brain Research Bulletin, the researchers found that people trained to meditate over an eight-week period were better able to control a specific type of brain waves called alpha rhythms.

“These activity patterns are thought to minimize distractions, to diminish the likelihood stimuli will grab your attention,” says Christopher Moore, an MIT neuroscientist and senior author of the paper. “Our data indicate that meditation training makes you better at focusing, in part by allowing you to better regulate how things that arise will impact you.” [web.mit.edu]

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This last week saw three very notable articles about science and meditation in the global media. The articles, following recent scientific research into meditation, describe meditation as making people more rational, more attentive, and -at the chromosomal level- more likely to living longer, healthier lives.

But meditators showed no significant activity for the anterior insula [the area of the brain associated with emotions such as mistrust and betrayal] when offered [a modest gift from a relative who had just won a large sum of money]. In fact they increased activity in the posterior insula, which has been linked to rational decision-making.

After several years of number-crunching, data from the so-called Shamatha project is finally starting to be published. So far the research has shown some not hugely surprising psychological and cognitive changes – improvements in perception and wellbeing, for example. But one result in particular has potentially stunning implications: that by protecting caps called telomeres on the ends of our chromosomes, meditation might help to delay the process of ageing. [www.patheos.com]

Maybe the problems start when yer doin it rong :P



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 05:27AM by TaitenAndProud.

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sixtyseven
It seems the heavenly deities have sent the answere! I got a phone call from a member ( I picked up unaware) and he started the conversation with " I want to quit with the organization too, I've heard you had sent back the Gohonzon....." Isn't that wonderful? I bet they will forbid the members to have contact with me, the bad taiten, and I will have my peace again. Cool, cool, cool.

It's a BENEFIT!! :-)) Congratulations!

(Sorry, but I just couldn't resist that reverse confirmation bias opportunity.) The cult org. has programmed it into me, but I overwrote the program to function both ways. HA!