Hi there.

interesting thread. I never gave much thought about the issue of psychology and psychiatry in SGI, but in my more than 20 years in SGI I noticed that members who DID seek help by an expert were kind of shunned, eventually left the "scene".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2009 02:18PM by Rothaus.

Quote
tsukimoto
Von, welcome to the thread. I too would love to hear more of your experiences with SGI. I've found the sharing here so helpful. It's hard to discuss my SGI experiences with people who have not been in SGI. I sometimes wonder if they think I'm making things up!

tsuki ...

Yes, your posts in particular really drive it home for me. I read you and found myself sitting here thinking "oh yeah! totally lol .. that's exactly what I went through".

First time I had actually heard - or read someones experience - that laid out the truth of what I experienced with the organization. I remember thinking back then "wow .. am I the only one here that sees the obvious?" ... but yet still putting aside my doubts, continued to practice to the best of my ability, continued to "challenge my negativity" and do the activities regardless of my common sense ..

.. and continually making excuses for the things that I saw and experienced that were not adding up.

The story of how I finally went "taitan" in LA:

I was new to LA in 1985 - moved there from New York to study music and play in rock bands. And I had nothing, owned nothing. No money, no property, had withdrawn from college in my sophmore year to move out there on my own.

I had no family or long term friendships there. I was completely alone in a huge city at the age of 20.

So after recieving my gohonzon at the LA Temple sometime in 2006, and encouragement that not only would it help me survive and bring me what I needed to get by day by day, it could "make my dreams come true. With these things in mind I began a journey of almost 3 years of hard practice.

SGI became pretty much my entire social life, and my "family". I jumped into it full force because - well for a number of reasons, but simply having the human contact and being part of someplace where I felt I could go and have a direction socially had a lot to do with it.

But most of all ... things did happen when I chanted and told people about the practice. Unusual things. Synchronicities.

Yes - I absolutely do see the obvious truths of "backwards rationalization" and "selection bias" (IF something good happens, its because you chanted. IF they dont happen or something painful happens? Its because "its your karma coming out like a pimple" OR "you are doing it the wrong way"). These cognitive distortions are a part of human nature and unavoidable ...

However I am and always have been hyper vigilant not to believe in B.S, and critical minded like a scientist: I delved deep into the practice to test it. If there was anything to it, I was damned determined to find out, regardless of any organization if I had to.

So stuff happened. Sometimes it was wierd, sometimes hilarious, sometimes painful, sometimes profound, and always deeply personal to the issues in my life about society, people, emotion, money, love. And so I kept going.

The proof it what kept me going. In spite of the organization ... because ...

Tsuki as time went on I began to question all of the things you and others have been talking about in this thread. The constant pressure to conform to do more and more "activities", and lack of consideration for my own personal needs to work and have a life outside of SGI. The constant pressure to conform to the organizational structure, thier way of thinking, thier way of percieving reality.

And the people I came into contact with the organization, that I called "organizational drones": they always used "SGI speak" and "SGI mannerisms" and in dealing with them I often came away feeling like I was dealing with an automaton .. one of those things you see in the Presidential exhibit at Disney.

As if at some point they either completely stopped thinking for themselves and developing an independent personality ... or they were never that strong enough to begin with to have a true "seeking spirit" to be or find out who they were on their own. This really bothered me. Because this has and always has been one of my pet peeves (BE YOURSELF and dont be fake), cause I can smell insincerity instinctively from a mile way.

But I had these problems of my own with money, and girls, and other things and ... I had these personal experiences ... and so like a carrot on a stick, the practice was always there holding out hope that I was making the causes to change my life on a very fundamental level. And so I kept chasing the carrot in spite of my doubts.

And the more sane ones in the practice knew me personally, knew my doubts, accepted them as natural, gave me some real feedback on the things I was experiencing ("Yeah .. they're a little bit wierd but they mean well lol. The most important thing is your connection to the Gohonzon. Just keep chanting and doing shaka-buku and you'll succeed, you'll see") ... they gave me encouragement that applied to my situation and this also kept me going.

Sometime around 1987 or 1988 there was a big trip of some kind to Seattle. I was a YMD (Young Mens Division), and they were gearing us up to go. But i was broke, barely getting by. At the time i was living in West LA in a house with 5 other people - non members - well one kid, Larry, was a member - but the rest were students etc - and it was a crazy house, party house, roommates moving in and out every week. I forget who was on the lease or even if we had one.

We did this activity where we made a human pyramid on rollerskates. Apparently we were looking to break the world record doing this lol. Because I'm a tall guy (over 6 feet) this put me on the bottom level with the other big guys. Wearing the skates, with a board on my shoulder that all of the other levels would stand on. And so we would do these activities on the weekends, where we would get dragged out of bed at 5 AM ("Challenge your negativity! This is a great cause for Kosen Rufuuuu!!!!" arg!) to go somewhere and chant, do calisthenics in big groups early in the morning, and then kill ourselves in the hot sun while guys climbed up on the boards (did they have insurance lol?? I have no idea).

And all along the way I am telling them that I am broke. And they keep telling me that I am making the cause to get out of my financial situation. That what i was doing - because it was related to the practice - working with others toward changing the karma of the world - that this would directly influence my bottom line. They seemed pretty sure of themselves. So I kept testing it.

When the time came to pay for the plane ticket and cost of the trip (which was somewhere around $400.00 I believe) - I reached a moment where I had to make the decision. I had invested all that blood sweat and tears into doing this crazy activity. I really, really had some serious problems with money and also with what i was doing with my life. I could either A) Do the responsible thing and pay my rent, or B) Trust in the practice ... roll for broke ... and hope for a miracle.

I got some guidance from everyone. My district leaders, chapter leaders, senior leaders ... they all said the same thing. "Go for it. Change your karma!"

So I gave them the money and before long I was flying to Seattle ...

[next: what happened lol] :)


.

Von, you tease! Here we are, holding our breath waiting to hear what happened in Seattle, and you are leaving us hanging? Please, please, please!

I thought I would copy and post some info about the Internal Reassessment Group (IRG), a group of former SGI members who asked SGI-USA to make some changes in the late 1990's -- while we wait to find out about Von's trip to Seattle! I have previously referred to the IRG as the Internal Reform Group, and I was incorrect. Sorry! They're the Internal Reassessment Group.

----------Begin Quote, from Nichiren's Coffeehouse Website-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

II. Key Issues

1. Organizational Structure: The SGI-USA is out of step with the times and American society in terms of its organizational structure. Current leadership structures are still based on the old hierarchical organizational model. Based on directives and appointments with a "top down" viewpoint, the organization does not encourage autonomy, initiative, and empowerment, and as such is in contradiction to the direction received from President Ikeda during his February, 1990 visit to the United States.

2. Member's Opinions: The SGI-USA has no efficient means for gauging the needs and wishes of its members, and especially has no program for polling estranged or alienated members, who may have valuable insight but are out of touch in part because of real or perceived past errors on the part of the organization or specific leaders.

3. Public Discussion: SGI-USA publications do not encourage or publish all reasonable discussion and debate for the members' consideration, but rather avoid certain "taboo" topics. Our democratic society was founded on the principle of free speech, based on the understanding that authoritarianism becomes possible in reverse proportion to the ability of the people to express, and be exposed to, dissenting views.

4. Divisional System: The current divisional system, imported from Japan, should be dissolved. It involves arbitrary "pigeonholing" and can be divisive or even sexist in practice, as well as being strange in appearance to American new members or non-members.

------------------------------------End of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The memo I quoted is much longer, and contains suggestions as to specifically how these changes might be made. If anyone is interested, the full memo is posted on the Nichiren's Coffeehouse website -- just do a search for the IRG.

The "Divisional System" was that there were four divisions: Men's Division, Women's Division, Young Men's Division, Young Women's Division. You were pretty much in Young Men's Division or Young Women's Division until you had your first child. Those of us who didn't have children or had children later in life -- were pretty much stuck in YMD or YWD for years with much younger members. It felt a bit insulting, as if SGI was saying you were not a full adult since you did not have a child.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2009 04:56AM by tsukimoto.

-- January 8, 1999, Fred Zaitsu, then Director of SGI-USA, sends a memo to IRG, thanking them for writing to him. He tells the IRG that the four issues they brought up will be discussed by the SGI's Central Executive Committee (CEC) at their next meeting.

--April 21, 1999, The CEC responds with a polite memo that blows off the IRG's concerns -- everything is fine in SGI, the members are all happy, and if there's a problem with an individual leader, why don't you just discuss it with him or her? (Gingermarie can tell you how well that worked for her.)

And then there was the Dallas Incident. (I've edited it; the full version and the two above-mentioned memos are posted on the Nichiren's Coffeehouse website.)

-------------------------Begin Quote------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dallas Incident - Updated 5-1-99
Dallas Incident Report

We have been made aware of some rather disturbing news involving discussion of the Independent Reassessment Group (IRG) at a leader's meeting in Dallas which took place on Sunday, April 18. According to reports we received, the IRG was misrepresented and irresponsibly categorized in front of almost two hundred leaders from the Texas area. Here is what we were told. (Note: Prior to publication, we received independent confirmation of this material from three sources we know and consider to be completely credible, all of whom were present, which means they were at least chapter leaders. We also received confirmation of the substance of what we heard from an area or above level leader who was also present at the event. Since we sent this report out initially, on Friday, April 23, we have received five additional confirmations from members who attended the meeting.)

1. During the Q&A period a member asked about the IRG and who they were. Fred Zaitsu (or James Herman) passed the question to George Kataoka, head of the organization committee. As part of his response, Mr. Kataoka mentioned that the IRG thought we (SGI-USA) shouldn't be spending any time on the temple issue. He said that they (SGI-USA leadership) didn't want to demonize the IRG, but the IRG members are not really connected to the organization, and in fact, these are people who have never really been connected.

*He also stated that one of the members is on the payroll of the Temple. He advised the members present that we (SGI-USA members) have to be careful about listening to the IRG. He said that the members must try to "read between the lines" of the IRG material, and see the "true agenda," or words to that effect.

[Note: The IRG central committee members are Laurie Chandler - part time member; Andy Hanlen - district leader in Long Beach, CA; Dana Hanlen - district leader in Long Beach; John Nicks - currently a senior member in Phoenix, formerly (among other things) Beverly Hills headquarters leader; Don Ross - Group leader in San Diego; Jay Williams - area (headquarters) leader in Long Beach. This information is known to the CEC, including Mr. Kataoka who, as head of the Organization Department, has access to the information on all appointed leaders in the SGI-USA..

*None of these individuals are or have ever been Nichiren Shoshu - except when all of SGI was - or Hokkeko members, or received any funding or payment of any sort from Nichiren Shoshu or Hokkeko, or anyone else, for that matter.]

2. Mr. Kataoka stated that the IRG proposal included voting for SGI leaders, including those in other countries, but he did not expand on this.

[Note: The IRG Democratization paper does discuss voting, along with consensus methods and other means for achieving a "bottom up" organization, as President Ikeda has advised. It does not include any suggestions aimed outside of the SGI-USA, and it does not claim to have the answers, but rather asks for *public discussion of these matters*.]

3. Later, in Mr. Zaitsu's closing remarks he revisited the issue of the IRG. He said that they (SGI-USA) are an open-minded organization. As for democratization, they are constantly trying to find a way to combine American culture with the Gakkai spirit. He went on to say that it's important that we not be confused by the [IRG] proposal . . . which can cause loss of confidence or trust in Sensei. This is the function of the devil. The membership must not be swayed by such a group or confused by what may arise in the future. We are vulnerable both inside and out.

Nobody recorded this meeting. The people from whom we received reports related, to the best of their ability, their impressions of what they heard. For this reason we cannot verify the exact words used. What we have reported above is a compilation of the information we received. Anything which was in question or unverified, we have excluded. All of the sources related their impression that the statements made by Mr. Kataoka about the IRG were given in a "dismissive" and "nearly derogatory" manner.

*We have received no requests for clarification on any of these matters, particularly the allegations of temple influence, from any national leader or CEC member.

We have sent a letter to Mr. Kataoka, with copies to the other top national leaders, expressing our concern and asking for an explanation of these statements and misrepresentations. This letter was sent on Wednesday, April 21. As of this date, we have received no formal response. Mr. Kataoka has since met informally with IRG members Dana and Andy Hanlen, but has requested that no report of that meeting be issued until he has agreed that it is accurate. We have sent him a draft report for his review, but, due to his very busy schedule, he has not been able to respond yet.
-------------------------------------End of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is just so typical for SGI:

1. The IRG's request for reform made it quite clear that the members were talking about SGI-USA...how SGI should fit into the American members' culture. Yet Mr. Kataoka is saying that the IRG is also talking about how SGI in "other countries" should select leaders. The IRG DID NOT make recommendations for other countries. Mr. Kataoka is engaging in misdirection.

2. SGI leaders labelled the members of the IRG as "temple members." This was false. The IRG members were not Nichiren Shoshu or temple members.

3. SGI leaders described the IRG's work as a "function of the devil," and said that they might "make members lose confidence in Sensei." This is very typical of SGI's paranoia and their "You're either for us or against us," mentality.

President Ikeda indeed did come to the United States in 1990 and talked about how wonderful American democracy was. He talked about how SGI-USA (Which was still then Nichiren Shoshu of America -- SGI and Nichiren Shoshu had not yet split.) should reflect this wonderful spirit of American democracy with dialogue, autonomy, initiative and empowerment, each member valued.

Silly IRG -- did they think he actually meant this?

SGI's Official Response to the IRG, Memo PLN-030, April 30, 2001

-------------Beginning of Quote, from Nichiren's Coffeehouse Website-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SGI-USA's Statement on the Independent Reassessment Group (IRG)

Many SGI-USA members have been asking about the activities of the Independent Reassessment Group, which has stated its intention to "help our organization to continue its development." SGI-USA always welcomes dialogue, and always strives to improve the organization, but here are some points to keep in mind regarding the IRG:

-- In recent months, the IRG, which maintains its own web site and message board, has been highly critical of the SGI leadership. It has opposed several core positions and policies that are based on the Daishonin's writings. Here are some examples: IRG members have argued that the mentor-and-disciple relationship is not part of the Daishonin's Buddhism and that the SGI is a cult of personality; that refuting erroneous teachings has no basis in the Daishonin's writings; and that anyone who wants to can distribute or create Gohonzon.

Essentially, the IRG is offering views that go against the SGI and the Daishonin's teachings.

-- The IRG has seven official members but a large number of people have participated in the wide-ranging dialogue sponsored on its message board, including SGI-USA members, Minobu sect members, and so-called "independents" (people who say they are practicing the Daishonin's Buddhism on their own).

-- IRG members have now started promoting an e-mail newsletter called Reflections, which to this point has offered only mild opposition to the SGI's direction. Because Reflections presents itself as "an e-journal for SGI-USA members," many members across the country have been confused as to whether Reflections is an official journal of the SGI-USA.

It is not.

-- The Independent Reassessment Group is not an officially recognized part of the SGI-USA organization. Many of the positions it promotes deviate from or contradict Nichiren Daishonin's teachings and the policies of the SGI-USA. For this reason, promotion of the IRG's activities is unacceptable at SGI-USA activities.
----------------------------------------End of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--"SGI always welcomes dialogue." Really? Since when?

--The IRG was putting out their own e-mail newsletter? Actually, they weren't. People who read their discussion board were. Their response below explains. It apparently was VERY threatening to SGI that SGI members were actually speaking out in a forum that SGI could not control.

--And the IRG members were communicating with people who were not SGI members? Can't have that!

--The IRG was saying that SGI might be a "cult of personality?" Gee, whereEVER would they get that idea?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2009 05:48AM by tsukimoto.

Hi Tsukimoto,

I actually witnessed the “demonizing process” of the reassessment group in the UK at the time. The development followed pretty much the same schedule. In the north of the UK (Scotland) there were even some groups who declared themselves independent from the district system.
Looking back those who were members of those groups were decent people WITH faith in Nichiren Buddhism and that maybe was their biggest flaw.
Its actually quite embarrassing how SGI treated people who really cared about Buddhism. In meetings democracy and the individual was held up high as a principle but the inner structure in its in abilty to accomodate peoples ideas and wishes is quite breath taking.

-------Beginning Quote, from Nichiren's Coffeehouse Website--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IRG's Official Response to SGI

Dear Ms. Hall:

We are writing as the Independent Reassessment Group (IRG). We know that you have received individual letters containing the personal views of several of us, but we felt it was important to also send our response as a group, now that we have had time to discuss this amongst ourselves. We wish to clearly state our concerns with the issuance and contents of Memo PLN-030, and we respectfully request that you pass this letter on to all involved in its writing and approval.

First, we object to the issuance of an official policy statement regarding the IRG in the same memo as one regarding Gohonzon distribution. Although the IRG message board has at times had discussions about the issues involved in Gohonzon distribution, the IRG has no position on this matter. It is not part of our Mission Statement or any of our position papers. Including comments about the IRG in "the same breath" as those about Gohonzon distribution gives the appearance that we are in some way connected to that issue. As a group, we are not.

Second, we object strongly to the portrayal of the IRG in that portion of Memo PLN-030. At the beginning of that section it says:

"...but here are some points to keep in mind regarding the IRG:"

Following that is a list of items which we do not need to quote in detail here. Included in the list are clear statements, presented as fact, which are false and/or misleading. The following statements are included:

1. "IRG members have argued that the mentor-and-disciple relationship is not part of the Daishonin's Buddhism"

2. [IRG members have argued that] "refuting erroneous teachings has no basis in the Daishonin's writings"

These two statements are simply false. These issues have been discussed, and questions about emphasis and understanding and application of these key Buddhist points have been talked about and debated, but the implication that we believe either principle is not a part of the Daishonin's Buddhism is absurd. One would have to discard the Gosho and the Lotus Sutra in order to uphold such positions. For the SGI-USA to officially state that we have made such arguments is not true, is an insult, and is slanderous, in our opinion. In sending such information for distribution to all SGI-USA members you have damaged our credibility and reputations as practitioners of the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin.

3. [IRG members have argued] "that anyone who wants to can distribute or create Gohonzon"

While it is true that some individuals have taken this position, as stated above, the IRG as a group takes no position on this matter. To include it in the memo's list of "points to keep in mind regarding the IRG" is unfair and misleading. It implies that the IRG as a group is involved in or supportive of this position. As a group it is neither.

4. "Many of the positions [IRG] promotes deviate from or contradict Nichiren Daishonin's teachings"

This is false. All of us are practicing the Daishonin's Buddism to the best of our ability. Most of us have been at it as long, or longer than, whomever wrote this memo, with as much dedication and effort. How can this statement be supported, other than as the opinion of a small group of SGI-USA members, who happen to be leaders as well? It is not supportable, as any of our published materials will demonstrate.

It is clear that the author(s) did not refer to the IRG published positions. We are not a private group. Anyone can access our Mission Statement on our web site and see our basic positions, and look at our position papers there for further expansion. If this statement is to be made, most especially in an official SGI-USA memo to the entire membership, at minimum we would expect the author(s) to point to what part of our material leads them to this conclusion. The person or persons who put together the IRG portion of this memo are either neglectful or malicious. Either way, it's a real disgrace.

The other "point to keep in mind" was the fact that we sponsor "wide-ranging" dialogue with other members and even persons who are non-SGI Nichiren Buddhists. This indictment is presented calmly, as though there is nothing wrong with it.

There is everything wrong with it.

We would take that exact same statement and put it on the front page of the World Tribune as a proud and ringing endorsement of any SGI-USA group that does as much.

"District X Sponsors Ongoing Wide-Ranging Dialogue With Other Nichiren Buddhists!"

We take great pride that we do that. We think that statement, presented in that context, goes right to the heart of what is wrong with our organization. The fact that it is used to indicate the way the Gakkai does NOT act, and as a caution against those who do it, is a sad statement indeed.

Finally, as another "point to keep in mind" about the IRG, the memo refers to the e-mail newsletter Reflections, with the implication that it is an IRG publication. It is not. It was initially begun by members who are participants on the IRG discussion board. The editors of Reflections are equal partners in the enterprise. All decisions are made by consensus. There are three IRG members on the editorial committee of nine. No one has preeminence or veto power. The editors, from the beginning, agreed that (a) Reflections is not an IRG organ and never will be and that (b) Reflections will have a much broader scope than the narrowly defined IRG agenda.

Conclusion

No member of the IRG was informed that a memo was forthcoming regarding the IRG. We were not consulted or interviewed. We were not - and obviously nobody knowledgable was - asked to confirm or deny the veracity and accuracy of statements made about us. Obviously our easily accessable published material was not referenced.

We believe that the SGI-USA as an organization has committed a serious and inexcusable breach of faith with the membership in making such false and misleading statements about its own members in an official statement for distribution to "All SGI-USA Members." We believe that this error cannot be allowed to stand uncorrected. Today the six of us. Who is next? Are the members to understand that, if they speak out publicly in any way critical of the SGI-USA, its leadership, or its policies, they may be publicly censured in a memo to the entire membership? We believe that the leadership, in writing and distributing this memo, has disrupted the harmonious unity of the members.

We believe this is very serious, and that the credibility of the leadership of the SGI-USA is at stake. We believe this needs to be retracted by the person(s) who authored this portion of the memo, in similar memo form, to the same distribution list, and that a public, signed apology should accompany the retraction. We believe that this is an urgent matter and needs to addressed in a matter of days, not weeks. Already we are seeing serious repercussions from the distribution of this thoughtless and irresponsible memo.

This is our request.

Respectfully yours,
the Independent Reassessment Group
----------------------------------------------------End of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Rothaus
Hi Tsukimoto,

I actually witnessed the “demonizing process” of the reassessment group in the UK at the time. The development followed pretty much the same schedule. In the north of the UK (Scotland) there were even some groups who declared themselves independent from the district system.
Looking back those who were members of those groups were decent people WITH faith in Nichiren Buddhism and that maybe was their biggest flaw.
Its actually quite embarrassing how SGI treated people who really cared about Buddhism. In meetings democracy and the individual was held up high as a principle but the inner structure in its in abilty to accomodate peoples ideas and wishes is quite breath taking.

Rothaus, I knew NOTHING of this at the time it was going on. I learned about it much later, doing web seaches for information about SGI. I wondered how SGI could behave this way. At the time, it made no sense to me. If their concern was really expanding SGI and helping people change their lives, as they said -- being more democratic and open was going to IMPROVE their ability to do this. SGI's heavy-handed treatment of anyone who questioned them cost them members -- sincere people who really cared about Buddhism. It also cost them potential members. Didn't the leaders understand this, I wondered?

Now, having learned more about SGI, its finances, and secret groups -- I realize how naive I was. The LAST thing SGI could afford was more openness and members having more say in how the organization was run. If members could help choose their own leaders -- SGI might actually have leaders who asked questions, and demanded answers, instead of the organizational loyalists.

The world might actually find out that SGI was rich, and owned all this stock and real estate. Members, and leaders might actually say, "SGI's rich! Why should I give you money? Why should I work for you for free? Who really owns the community center? Why does President Ikeda have this beautiful mansion in California? Hell, why is he our "president"? Presidents are elected; nobody elected him! Why was he giving nude guidance to Women's Division and Young Women's Division members in his hot tub? Will SGI buy ME a hot tub so I can give nude guidance to my members?"

No...if they let members make decisions and ask questions, it was going to be the beginning of the end. SGI was just going to start falling down like a line of dominoes, one after another. The leaders couldn't have that.

This, to me, explains their harsh and frantic response to the IRG, and other members who questioned SGI. The IRG --whether they meant to or not -- was tugging at the curtain, the illusion that SGI had created (We are a group of people who chant and care about world peace and the value of each member.) Keep tugging on that stupid curtain, and everyone was going to see that there was no Wizard of Oz -- just some clever, but ordinary human pretending to be a great wizard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2009 06:20AM by tsukimoto.