Thanks for the welcome Freeheartandmind and Hitch, I have always liked your posts and your concise reasoning, not to mention your good sense of humor. The links you provide give a bigger picture of the SGI, especially from a international standpoint.

Also Anticult, your insights into human behavior and subsequent templates for cult tactics, especially the efforts for applying them to the SGI is commendable as the effort is towards exposing the wickedness that is the SGI, behind it's glossy peace loving veil.


I am sure many people read this site and still look through the Soka lens, using a skewed perspective to analyse the data and fool themselves about what the SGI is,without understanding this cult in a total way. Many people think that either the SGI has gone astray or perhaps that the SGI can be changed, that somehow this organization can rise up and be what it exemplifies in it's marketing. The fact is, it's a cult, designed to be a cult and furthermore was and is shaped and formed to make profit and take advantage of people's innocence and frankly ignorance. The SGI just didn't fly together haphazardly, but was built in board rooms and in private meetings with major players and financiers. The big boys in Japan crafted this powerhouse to get filthy rich. It seems to me that the Soka Gakkai makes money internationally, launders money in highly creative ways and evenmore, uses the SGI as a marketing campaign to show domestic Japanese how great their organization is, as from research and talking to some japanese members, the pressure tactics for getting money from members in Japan is high pressure, tactics that Americans wouldn't put up with. Realize this, the SGI brow beats members to give their money in a high pressure way in Japan. Why would you condone that through your continued support?

People too smart for Christianity and yet end up trapped in a cult, unaware that they are being used by exotic japanese crooks.
Hell, I have talked to older Japanese Leaders and they don't even seem to have much faith. I get a sense of resignation and soldiering on through the sheer fact that they devoted their lives and are in the United States, with no way where else to go.

Of course, they would never divulge this easily, but many are tired. The only members I could respect were the oldest creatures, as they were beyond playing games (some of them). Many were just riding the Soka train straight to the River styx.

I liken the SGI to a bulldozer that scoops up people in crisis, troubled people, fringe elements and those who aren't looking and happen to end up in the heap. It's a train wreck variety of individuals who are essentially frozen in mind control stasis and given "guidance" and support to be "victorious" so as to be a productive member of society......or I mean someone who can pay the organization in a healthy way.

Apparently a respected member is someone who is materially successful. This is the ideal model for the organization. Not someone who contributes to society in some grand way or authentically overcomes "obstacles" or difficulties, no the final measure is how much money you make. If you are a shiny middle income earner, then you become a model Soka member. A respected, let's kiss your ass, member who is given the keys to future leadership positions.

The richer you are the better. Many people who catch this vibe, figure out what the SGI is truly about and run. An organization that truly cared for the well being of all living beings and deep compassion for others, well you'd think that they would rise beyond the material threshhold as it's highest ideal.

Of course, every organization good or bad, needs capital to survive, but when the entire organizational system is rigged to manipulate you and set precedence on money, using mind control to make sure you don't get up and walk out , well you can figure it out, it's a cult.

This provincial attitude , this narrow footprint outlook and perspective that the SGI is coveting and cultivating, it's massively clear that it is following the most efficient path to your wallet. Sure, all of the window dressing , I mean Nichiren's teachings, get you warm and fuzzy inside, but strip away the layers and you have a conveyor belt wallet snatching system.

I saw a big leader at a meeting come and give a carefully crafted experience about giving money and getting so much more back, you could see that this person , as slick as they were, they were having a hard time spouting off such bullshit.

Between the cult daddy worship of Ikeda and the money in your pants pocket twisting of the teachings, it is beyond me why anyone would stay. There is a song on youtube with some young woman singing "all I need is Sensei" some cult garbage like that, and it's not even Buddhism! This is the growing trend. Constant reading of Ikeda, which is elementary human sciences essays written by god knows who, over and over again.

Oh, I did some research, do you know who else recieved awards, keys to cities, honorary doctorates and other shiny garbage? Reverend Moon. The exact same pattern. I mean, you could take the two, Ikeda and Moon and put them side by side and you would think that they were competing for the most trinkets and baubles from third world nobody's.

It's a cult. snap out of it, overcome the fear drilled into your head and figure it out. First, stop chanting, you won't die, then back off going to meetings and take a break. Use some excuse to get some breathing room. Then walk around your city or town, go out and about and take some time off. This is the first step. Just allow your brain to recover, give it a rest. That's all you'll need. Suddenly you will be repelled to go back into that suffocating environment.

It's embarassing. The Ikeda worship, the ethnocentric energy that treats japanese like the chosen people, and yeah, the japanese members, those who can speak english and participate , they eat that shit up. It's disgusting.

I will stop now, as I could go on and on. Anyhow, yes, I know some of you will think that you are staring at Sanshoshima itself, that the advice that I am giving, for some of you, will be the edicts of the devil king himself, you must break through that fear and resignation that has you trapped. If you truly follow the Daishonin's way, then it's your responsibility to break out, because I can assure you Nichiren Daishonin never intended for common mortals to be mind controlled and manipulated for money under his name.

Thanks for the in depth analysis, Upgrayed.
Most people in Western Culture have a touch of neuroses at times but this group waters the garden and allows it to proliferate like weeds. In the videos, when we see elements of culture from the real world, like a Michael Jackson song sung by a member in which the singer gets to "own' the song for a moment in their own heartfelt way but for the sake of the leader, the group, or Cousin Rufus, then the song's essence belongs to the new faith experience. For a moment, there is a subconscious breath of fresh air in the windowless room as pop culture from the outside world reminds you that you aren't totally isolated from the real world in this group, but a mental bait and switch begins to take place. MJ and his song's meaning become part of the cult for the moment.
Another thought: when Nelson Mandela makes his greatest cause, which is setting up a meeting with Ikeda, he receives the greatest of the effects in his life: Having met Ikeda.
I remember young members asking leaders how people like Mandela are able to make great causes without chanting. Wow. That is really throwing in the towel on self determination.
Anyway, in terms of developing mental conditions from participation with SGI, I'm sure various levels of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) are felt by some ex-members.

Speaking of PTSD....just last night I had another cult dream, complete with meeting and chanting. Ugh. I haven't set foot in a meeting or chanted since 1976! Yet, I still have these disturbing dreams (they are never happy, I'm always in some sort of conflict with the true believers). This forum is invaluable, because I would not share this experience with friends and family lest I be thought of as a few cards short of a full deck. The roots of cult programming are deep and I so hope that current members realize once and for all that they are in a damaging CULT.

What do you guys think about just calling the SGI-USA headquarters and just asking straight-out if Ikea is alive or dead?

Hello Rattboy,


I agree with you. Since I have left the SGI Cult, I can tell that my brain is processing through everything. My dreams are heavily influenced as my mind is jettisoning all of the artificial mind control elements that clouded my thinking.
In fact, because I started working through a process before making a clear determination to be thoroughly done with the organization, I slowly unraveled the "soka" perspective and carefully exposed bit by bit, the toxic mechanisms that had been installed in my mind, just through meetings and reading SGI content, interactions with members and the round table sessions known as discussion meetings and the occasional volunteering of time to put together a presentation on a particular "soka" perspective on Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. All of that content sticks in the brain and the residue builds up.

I can't begin to imagine the difficulty that someone who has been in the SGI for a long time would have to go through, it's beyond my understanding, but I am sure that it could create trauma, such a life changing experience and the shock and pain coming from the realization of being used. Not to mention the hurt and abuse that is expertly crafted in the "guidance" and the passive aggressive nature of the SGI membership, via the cold hearted nature of the social dynamics.

It's cold blooded.

Self determination, critical faculties, these are the lexoconic weapons that go directly against the cult speak.

If anyone wants to leave this organization, please feel free to post here, to walk through the process of change, because in a way, that's what I am doing. Rather than sitting in a void, waiting for something to change and take the place of the empty space that was the brainwashing, it's better to be pro active and make a wrong a right, applying justice to the issue. A clear way in doing so is to participate in this forum, sharing experiences and shedding light on why the SGI carries the toxic label. Of course, apologists should not apply, because this thread should be for people recovering from this sinister organization, not the judgemental assaults of cult attack dogs.

I too find it interesting that the relationships one makes within the organization is very shallow. Even work relationships have more substance, showing concrete evidence of an authentic friendship. Through participating in this forum, already I am becoming aware to how covert the SGI tactics are.

Like Corboy said, people are victims. This organization uses weaponized culture and psychology on those that enter it's doors as a means to stifle thought and free will. To reduce a person's sense of direction. To stall them so that the fleecing can continue in a efficient sustaining way.

I owe Upgrayed an apology.

You're new here and have paid the price being in SG.

On other threads, there have been people who posed being helpful but would poison their message by slipping sneaky hints in that only people with prexisting problems would fall for whatever group was being discussed, thus subtly putting the onus on the victim.

It also distracted from the deceitful recuitment methods, and sophisticated pressure used to condition people.

When recruitment is done dishonestly and by exploiting friendships, thats the worst. It violates the trust needed for for us to stay human and maintain real friendships and genuine communities.

Thanks Corboy. I felt your passion in that post and didn't take it as something to personalize.

I must be on a roll today.


I reread my recent posts and I am reading them the way a SGI member would read them. I talk about money and yet, I wasn't a huge giver to the SGI Cult. I had one leader tell me to spend vital money that I needed for everyday survival( Rent), to put it towards Zaimu, or May Contribution. On the other hand they usually leave you alone. Don't think that it will stay that way. It's just that their membership numbers are low and they don't want to do anything to rock the boat. They are walking lightly with this issue, in so much as direct pressure. Though it's still there. More members, Mo money. They walk a carefully crafted line. It's subjective. If you are easily manipulated or led, they will give you the treatment. They left me alone, money wise after I scoffed at the idea of giving my rent money.

World Peace Prayer is was beginning to look more like a church service. The money seed concept is becoming more pronounced and it's ridiculous to see the same leaders and different chosen members on a monthly basis give very bad experiences about how they got rich from giving. One person spoke of getting more money than she expected in a tax return. Really?

Again, four debts of gratitude, all of the series lectures and discussion topics through the publications have a heavy lean towards the issue of giving. Nichiren this and Nichiren that, even going so far as to say that an animal knows it's gratitude better than some human beings. It's subtle pressure for money.


The SGI has been trying to become more mainstream. Even today, many leaders, including Greg Martin have stated that the NSA days were that of a cult. No one seems to deny that. It's expressed in meetings. The idea is that SGI is now a new organization, reconnected to Sensei's heart, therefore it's giving and mainstream. Bad guy Williams kept the truth from Ikeda to make himself look successful in Sensei's eyes ( the party line that is now being used).

Of course, nothing has changed, it's just that they ran the organization full throttle for so long that people started abandoning ship. They got too greedy. The 90's were a rest period and now they are bringing up the heat again.

You just had a organizational heirachial change so that the Cult can be refitted and born again. The rhetoric is becoming more intense and the message is becoming stronger, the brow beating becoming more noticeable.

So, my point is that yes, they come after you for money and yes they are careful to not rock the boat and work on an individual basis. I state this because some people may say, hey, this guy is going over the top and attacking the organization, making stuff up. No, it's just that the organization is being careful to not rock the boat or expose itself.

I do not attack the SGI because it's fun or because I have some grudge, I point out my subjective experiences and observations so that people can take notice and understand the dangers. It's not cute, it's not helly kitty, nor is it something benign. It's an instrument for taking your vital energies, time and money, disguised as an upright buddhist organization.

Phew. Got to go to work, so I won't have to type for a while.

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Upgrayed
It seems to me that the Soka Gakkai makes money internationally, launders money in highly creative ways and evenmore, uses the SGI as a marketing campaign to show domestic Japanese how great their organization is, as from research and talking to some japanese members, the pressure tactics for getting money from members in Japan is high pressure, tactics that Americans wouldn't put up with. Realize this, the SGI brow beats members to give their money in a high pressure way in Japan. Why would you condone that through your continued support?

The cult org. in its homeland is an entirely different monster than it is abroad and make no mistake about it, the soka gakkai is not regarded in a good light by your average Japanese citizen. Assuming that you are "normal" to begin with, tell somebody who you have gotten to know (a non-member Japanese) that you are a gakkai member and then sit back and watch the shock register on their face for a split second.

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Upgrayed
People too smart for Christianity and yet end up trapped in a cult,

HAHA! IMO, stepping from one trap, right into another.

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Upgrayed
Apparently a respected member is someone who is materially successful. This is the ideal model for the organization. Not someone who contributes to society in some grand way or authentically overcomes "obstacles" or difficulties, no the final measure is how much money you make. If you are a shiny middle income earner, then you become a model Soka member. A respected, let's kiss your ass, member who is given the keys to future leadership positions.

Perfect summation, as that is EXACTLY how it works. The more $$ you make, the higher your "position" in society, the more you will be buttered up and used; how many and what doors open up for you all depends on how well you play along with the game.

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Upgrayed
I saw a big leader at a meeting come and give a carefully crafted experience about giving money and getting so much more back, you could see that this person , as slick as they were, they were having a hard time spouting off such bullshit.

It's interesting that you mention this, because I did get the sense from certain big whigs from Santa Monica that they were on automatic pilot, with their feelings and emotions placed in neutral as a self-imposed buffer against what they were doing. I honestly don't know how some of these people even live with themselves. This also goes back to that "automaton" behavior that I have mentioned before.

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Upgrayed
Between the cult daddy worship of Ikeda and the money in your pants pocket twisting of the teachings, it is beyond me why anyone would stay. There is a song on youtube with some young woman singing "all I need is Sensei" some cult garbage like that, and it's not even Buddhism! This is the growing trend. Constant reading of Ikeda, which is elementary human sciences essays written by god knows who, over and over again.

I wouldn't even dignify it by calling it that. Vacuous, pretentious, shallow and ignorant verbiage is more like it. I couldn't stand the stuff, it just reeked of sheer ignorance.

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Upgrayed
Oh, I did some research, do you know who else recieved awards, keys to cities, honorary doctorates and other shiny garbage? Reverend Moon. The exact same pattern. I mean, you could take the two, Ikeda and Moon and put them side by side and you would think that they were competing for the most trinkets and baubles from third world nobody's.

I would classify the phantom dear leader Ikeda as a bit more sophisticated, but the similarities are indeed many, right down all the way to their son's taking over the cult org. in their absence. I'm still waiting for the hidden cameras to expose the gakkai cult org. for what it is and they are indeed paranoid about this in Japan (especially when it comes to Komeito election topic meetings, where they screen you multiple times for recording devices before entering). With technology the way it is now, it wouldn't be too difficult to expose them in this manner. One can hope.

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Upgrayed
The Ikeda worship, the ethnocentric energy that treats japanese like the chosen people, and yeah, the japanese members, those who can speak english and participate , they eat that shit up. It's disgusting.

HAHA! You got THAT right!!

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Upgrayed
Nichiren Daishonin never intended for common mortals to be mind controlled and manipulated for money under his name.

I take a different view here. To me, at its core, it's all ultimately delusion and manipulation.

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Upgrayed
The SGI has been trying to become more mainstream. Even today, many leaders, including Greg Martin have stated that the NSA days were that of a cult. No one seems to deny that. It's expressed in meetings. The idea is that SGI is now a new organization, reconnected to Sensei's heart, therefore it's giving and mainstream. Bad guy Williams kept the truth from Ikeda to make himself look successful in Sensei's eyes ( the party line that is now being used).

This is an extremely telling and revealing window into the cult org.'s psychological dissonance, in order to justify the current state of the organization (declining numbers and rising dispirit amongst longtime members). Dysfunction and denial have always been a huge part of their self-inflicted wounds. It's all so predictable and follows the same patterns over time.

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rattyboy
Another thought: when Nelson Mandela makes his greatest cause, which is setting up a meeting with Ikeda, he receives the greatest of the effects in his life: Having met Ikeda.
I remember young members asking leaders how people like Mandela are able to make great causes without chanting. Wow. That is really throwing in the towel on self determination.

To hear some of the gakkai heads talk about it, you almost get the sense that he was let out of prison solely to fulfill his mission of meeting the dear leader. I also recall lots of snide snickers (from the membership) about Mandela having the gall to be tired during his meeting with Ikeda and inadvertently nodding off. The insolence!

On the topic of PTSD:

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rattyboy
Anyway, in terms of developing mental conditions from participation with SGI, I'm sure various levels of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) are felt by some ex-members.

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Freeheartandmind
Speaking of PTSD....just last night I had another cult dream, complete with meeting and chanting. Ugh. I haven't set foot in a meeting or chanted since 1976! Yet, I still have these disturbing dreams (they are never happy, I'm always in some sort of conflict with the true believers). This forum is invaluable, because I would not share this experience with friends and family lest I be thought of as a few cards short of a full deck. The roots of cult programming are deep and I so hope that current members realize once and for all that they are in a damaging CULT.

That's exactly what it is. Your dreams are signs that you are processing the memories and on the road to recovery. Whether it be the cult or some other serious event in your life, the same thing would be occurring, regardless.

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Freeheartandmind
What do you guys think about just calling the SGI-USA headquarters and just asking straight-out if Ikea is alive or dead?

They'll surely tell you that the dear phantom leader is stepping back from the helm and letting all of the capable "YOUTH!" and members he has capably cultivated over the years, gradually take over. (They are fading him out, slowly, for the time being.) Then, they'd probably ask you for your name, headquarters, chapter, district and put you on a "difficult member" list, for daring to question, think for yourself and call the HQ with such a ridiculous (lack of faith) inquiry. Get ready for those soon-to-come "home v's", too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 07:10AM by Hitch.

Well, regarding Nichiren Daishonin, I look at this individual as a historical character who left a legacy of letters in which others have poured over and developed even more complicated systems beyond Nichiren's own position regarding the Lotus Sutra, itself a historical work which perhaps expresses the highest form of Buddhism in it's attempts at universal equality.

I see chanting as a meditative act, similar to a zen priest attempting to settle into the correct posture for mindfulness. They are tools to achieve a certain mental state.

This is the state of mind I had when entering the SGI and initially I thought that, because Buddhism is essentially a philosophy, or a system of behavior,
SGI's impact from this vantage would be taking a further step in modernizing this approach for the sake of having a more profound, interactive modern Buddhism which could be applied and shared in a more egalitarian way, it's emphasis being on the common man.

As with most cults or salesmen, one way to get an individual to comply and settle into a "yes" position is to agree. Taking a collage of information and facts that are known to be true or accepted and sprinkling them throughout a particular cult book, brings credibility to the work and subsequently the individual attached to such work, in so much as he or she isn't being peer reviewed within a academic environment.

Some of these works by President Ikeda (again clearly scripted by teams of writers) have nutritious content and they cleverly combine these universal/humnanitarian themes to modernize Buddhism.

Of course "my youthful diary" and all of the other "auto-biographies" are unreadable. The Human Revolution series (both old and new) came off as cult fiction and therefore never ended up on my bookshelves. It's no surprise, I only have three books, two being the writings of Nichiren Daishonin and Richard Causton's the Buddha in Daily Life, who sums up nicely the underpinnings of Daishonin's Buddhism.

My point is that even using cheap tricks through providing some actual content in their cult fiction, ultimately their litterature is and was still unreadable because it would repeatedly veer back into pedestal, ring kissing worship of Ikeda if through anything, the books being pinned by the charlatan himself.

Back to chanting, I did begin to realize that chanting within the SGI, and I am not aware of other sect's views regarding chanting, but within the SGI, there were members across the spectrum of superstition from those who utilized the Gohonzon to tie their shoes in the morning to the other end where chanting was seen as an attitude enhancer via it's calming, meditative properties. In regards to the official SGI line, they clearly promoted chanting as a magical ritual which would bring you whatever you wanted and the key was to chant "abundant daimoku". I heard one leader say that you must chant one hour a day, just to survive.

So, Hitch, I am actually partially in your court, as I do not believe in any magic making properties through chanting, I do see it as a meditative exercise that could have some merits within medical science from a perspective of stress reduction. Unfortunately for now, I will not chant as I don't deem it necessary for my daily existence and will most likely , if I chant again, take a vacation for a year or more as a means to completely flush any traces of the SGI out of my system.

My time in the SGI was clearly more of an observer than participant, but in studying Nichiren's writings, I do not see manipulating the masses anywhere in his letter based canon.

Of course, I was using Nichiren Daishonin as an anti cult device, specifically to offer SGI members a sound direction out of the SGI organization and still keep their beliefs. I didn't come on this board to make a clear cut stance against Buddhism, but more specifically the dangerous cult spiked machinations of the Soka Gakkai.

But as a caveat to my prior paragraph, I stand with you regarding delusion and manipulation across the board. So yes, if one is utilizing Nichiren Daishon's Buddhism as a magical system, then I would personally frown on that, as I had done repeatedly internally while having various discussions with different SGI members. Of course I shared my personal views but never attempted to change anyone elses.

Regarding the comparison of Ikeda and Moon, my statement was specific to their use of back water third world countries to prop up their majesties and pompous "high regard". On this front, both indeed utilize the same techniques which is getting slick publications printed showing them proudly receiving trinkets with a glaze of camera flashes and lackluster barely alive smiles of those giving the golden dipped garbage.


In regards to the big leader, again I saw a slick presentation, with the vacous pure sales charm, but in that, as I study people closely, I could see subtle cracks. What were those cracks? That person's experience was weak. This individual must have struggled to put together a leadership level experience regarding gaining fortune as it was not very good and that unto itself made the pitch that much harder. So perhaps still a good errand boy for Ikeda, but beyond that, no feeling or depth in the presentation. In this case the "bullshit" was literally the tough sell regarding one getting rich through donations. It's a propesterous, edgy performance.